Big Three automakers beg for $25 billion lifeline - meanwhile Congressional Republicans and some

[JohnWxy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081118/ap_on_go_co/congress_autos


Democrats are dicking around acting like they are not willing to pass a loan to keep the domestic auto industry from going down the tubes.. their precipitous sales drop is due to the Credit Catastrophe which now risks leading the nation into a depression. Consequently, very few people are willing to buy a new car (toyota's October sales were down 23%) but some in Congress want to blame GM and Ford for selling the cars that Americans wanted to buy.

Yes, the Big three could have been better managed but if Congress had not favored the oil industry with tax loop-holes over the last 50 years which kept oil artificially low people would have been buying fewer SUVs and more fuel efficient vehicles. That's what enabled GM, Ford and Chrysler to choose to focus too much on SUVs and not enough on smaller more fuel efficient cars. Yes, domestic automakers coulda shoulda been better managed but they wouldn't be facing bankruptcy right now, if it wasn't for the Credit Catastrophe. Now we are looking at a full fledged depression if they don't get a bridge loan till people start buying again. Don't think that the job losses are going to be limited to the auto industry and their suppliers. When these people are out of work they will curtail their spending and many others will find their services will no longer be needed.

I wonder if those who are balking at lending money to the automakers have considered how much it will cost to feed millions of people who will be out of work when the domestic auto industry goes under (many more than just auto industry workers will be out of work). Also, the number of foreclosures will jump when all these people can't make their house payments. Don't expect these people to find jobs right away as we will be in a depression. Figure on people needing from one to two years to find full-time employment again.

THis is the ultimate in stupidity. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. the auto industry problem is just an extension of the Credit Catastrophe. Even with $350 Billion given to banks the credit system is still frozen. The Government is going to have to inject money directly into the economy to get things moving again. The banks aren't going to do it. It will be far more difficult and expensive to bring us out of the depression we most certainly will be in if the domestic auto industry is needlessly allowed to go under.

[Oceansaway]

1. scary aint it....when i worked at Deere

in the shipping/receiving dept. we had tons of suppliers had delivered daily...

tires,wheels,wiring harnesses,lights, etc...they deliver on JIT (Just In Time) so

they dont have much inventory....there are tons of small businesses who will

fold if the Big 3 go down...this is sad....jmo...

[JohnWxy]

4. Everybody who doesn't want to see us go into a depression should go to

www.congress.org to send a message to Congress in support of doing the rational, practical thing.

It's very easy in fact here is the page to enter a message supporting a bridge loan to the auto industry: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=12211136&type=ML

register your opinion. It feels good!

[BrklynLiberal]

2. How about the banks the govt bailed out of trouble get together and loan the auto

companies the money they need??? Might as well use that bailout money for something besides bonuses for the CEOs. They do not seem to be using to help people in mortgage trouble with their homes.

[JohnWxy]

3. The banks wont' lend any significant amounts of money till things (economy) looks better. of course

things won't get better until credit loosens up, which won't happen until,,,, well you get the idea. Don't count on the banks to get the economy going again. The Government will have to do it with a stimulus package. but if the domestic auto manufacturers go under we will go into a depression and it will take many times the stimulus over a longer period of time to get the economy going again.

Letting the domestic auto industry go under will just make matters a LOT worse.

go to www.congress.org to tell your representatives and senators what you think.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. done..

[Liberal Gramma]

5. The Republicans want to bust the unions

That is their primary goal here, and why they are campaigning for bankruptcy.

[JohnWxy]

6. I agree, but tried to keep my appeal more general, but that really is it. Sample message to send to

your representatives in D.C. go to http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=12211136&type=ML to send message. Let your voice be heard!!

I support the $25 billion short-term loans to the auto industry with conditions.

I wonder if those who are balking at lending money to the automakers have considered how much it will cost to feed millions of people who will be out of work when the domestic auto industry goes under (many more than just auto industry workers will be out of work). Also, the number of foreclosures will jump when all these people can't make their house payments. Don't expect these people to find jobs right away as we will be in a depression. Figure on people needing from one to two years to find full-time employment again.

Yes, the Big three could have been better managed but if Congress had not favored the oil industry with tax loop-holes over the last 50 years which kept oil artificially low people would have been buying fewer SUVs and more fuel efficient vehicles. That's what enabled GM, Ford and Chrysler to choose to focus too much on SUVs and not enough on smaller more fuel efficient cars. Yes, domestic automakers coulda shoulda been better managed but they wouldn't be facing bankruptcy right now, if it wasn't for the Credit Catastrophe. Now we are looking at a full fledged depression if they don't get a bridge loan till people start buying again. Don't think that the job losses are going to be limited to the auto industry and their suppliers. When these people are out of work they will curtail their spending and many others will find their services will no longer be needed.

This is the ultimate in stupidity. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. the auto industry problem is just an extension of the Credit Catastrophe. Even with $350 Billion given to banks the credit system is still frozen. The Government is going to have to inject money directly into the economy to get things moving again. The banks are not going to do it. It will be far more difficult and expensive to bring us out of the depression we most certainly will be in if the domestic auto industry is needlessly allowed to go under.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. I agree. and the ceos & officers should take huge paycuts, so the loan

will not be merely subsidizing their lifestyles.

[JohnWxy]

9. Send an email and put that in there. I agree with you. But we need a loan to the Big 3 to keep

from having a depression. Really! I'm serious!

[Morpheal]

10. CONSPIRACY IN WASHINGTON : REPUBLICAN PAPER SHREDDERS RUN OVERTIME ?

CONSPIRACY IN WASHINGTON : REPUBLICAN PAPER SHREDDERS RUN OVERTIME ?

Of course there were insufficient indications, and no reason to take any preventative action on this issue,
during 8 years of Republican administration. (See my article on that, as to failure of responsibility.)

An eight year walk along the tracks, down the tunnel of American (capitalist free enterprise) love,
and suddenly at the end of it the speeding freight train smacks right into the oval office.

Sure, we all "believe" that scenario is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Possible explanations ?

My article avoids going into conjectural theorizing about why. That's an investigative role. Facts
need to be found out as to why and how, as well as to decide who is really responsible for the mess.

However, here we can play with ideas a bit more and consider what "might be" without knowing those facts.

a). Might be that economic intelligence just simply was not up to it. It wasn't able to see through the
board room walls, and into the CEOs and controller's offices. Neither was it able to see into the audits that
are routinely performed. No, couldn't see what was going on and thus no analysis as to what would happen.

How believable is that ? Eight years of blind faith and false analysis on the economic frontier ?
And you know they call the CIA "the company" don't you ? So that applies to foreign economics also.
Blind as bats, we all are. Can't use that xray vision. Superman must have swallowed kryptonite. Sure.
Let's leave all that credulity for the comic books.

b). Might be that the executive branch of government was told by intelligence, and ignored it. They
simply didn't believe the intelligence and decided policy accordingly. Faith is better than facts when you
are the president of the world's most powerful economy and want to push your system of economics over
on the entire world community, isn't it ? Have faith in American (capitalist) love. Never mind how dark the
tunnel is. Never mind that the ground is vibrating and there is a deafening noise and a blinding light headed
right at us at an incredible rate of speed. Never mind. It's like belief in Jesus. Believe in the economy and you
will get through the tunnel unharmed. Well, even a die hard fundamentalist revivalist Baptist preacher would
not be THAT naive. Far from it. Even he knows calling on Jesus will not save the economy. That's more that
other guy's work. Enough of that. We just can't believe in the executive branch anymore, and much less their
ideas about the economy.

c). Might be there is a conspiracy between intelligence and the oval office. Hush, hush, let's not tell anyone
how bad it really is and how bad it is going to be. Motives ? Well, that would be up to criminal investigation
to find out. We really don't want to step across that police line. We can only wonder if the yellow "do not cross
police line" tape has been placed all the way around the Treasury and the White House as of yet. Any minute ?
That too would be a bit much to believe, but it is a bit more credible as purely speculative theory. Maybe
because Americans love conspiracy theories best of all and it would make a good movie afterwards, if anyone
is left to make it, assuming there is a recovery.

d). Might be that there is a conspircy to empty the government coffers as much as possible, to as many
corporate and fiscal beneficiaries of Republican welfare, as is possible as late in the administration's game
plan as possible. In the last day if they can pull it off. A month or two is pretty good timing. Why ? Well that
would be to fiscally cripple up the next administration and render them the victim while the beneficiaries
and the departing administration have the last laugh. Again, if that scenario were the truth, we should see
the police tape around the Treasury, the Oval Office, and a lot of financial and corporate head offices
at any minute. After all we want to know who this mafia is that is emptying the United States treasury at
the sudden and rapid rate that is actually taking place. We might contemplate some sort of fiscal vampirism
and that the money vampires can't help it. They rise from their crypts every so often, like zombies crying
for brains to eat, needing to devour large amounts of currency from the mint. Their real envy is to get into
Fort Knox and eat up the gold reserve there, but that might get them a stake through their vampiric hearts
and back into the grave unfed. So they restrain their appetite a little, hoping for more currency.

Any other possible scenarios ?

I am sure we could come up with some other stories that would make great conspiracy debates that would
last into the next century, and provide fodder for a dozen or more box office hit films somewhere down
the long road to economic hell. Maybe that is the stimulus plan. That is big business. The conspiracy business.

On the other hand, it is serious, and all of the joking and conspiracy theorizing aside, someone has done
something awefully and completely wrong, while in power, and in control over the largest, most powerful,
most persuasive, and most arm twisting, economic system and economy on Earth. Something so wrong
that the lid is coming completely off and we need to see yellow police tape around certain landmark legislative
locations in Washington. Before the outgoing Republicans shred everything the way the KGB tried to do
when they left Moscow.

Robert Morpheal

[EmeraldCityGrl]

11. Under one condition...

new management. The biggest argument for not bailing out the auto makers
is that it would be throwing good money after bad. We need some kind of
team to oversee the use of the peoples money if this should happen. If I
felt the funds would usher in innovative uses of technology to create
energy efficient vehicles, I'd be more supportive.

[Citizen Number 9]

12. I've got a few more conditions along those lines...

1. Fewer SUVs - make 'em artificially scarce so the price on them is REALLY high. If folks still want 'em, fine, but they will be contributing VERY heavily to the automakers bottom line.
2. Require substantial tool-up for more hybrids and alternative fuels vehicles. Set minimum production numbers and require the automakers to incorporate US-sourced new technology (batteries, controllers, fuel cells, etc)
3. Higher production quotas on smaller, high-mileage commuter vehicles.
4. Re-evaluate the habit of introducing new year models with no substantial changes. Begin to re-educate consumers.
5. Hold hourly wages down and put contracted wage increases into strengthening retirement and medical plans.

[JohnWxy]

13. The reason people could buy SUVs (and while the demand was there Detroit supplied it) was -

for the last several decades the Government gave the Oil industry lots of tax-loopholes and program subsidies that kept the price of oil/gas artifically low and thus some could keep demanding SUVs and other gas guzzlers.

That's how detroit was able to focus on these vehicles and not innovate and develop more fuel efficient vehicles.

It's not a simple as some would have you think.