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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 09:53 AM
Original message
Help me debunk this freeper lie
In a debate on another forum I demonstrated that household income is down using census bureau data. His reply:

"15% increase in stay home moms or dads in the last 2 years. Go from 2 incomes to one per household BY CHOICE and HOUSEHOLD incomes will be down (it would have dropped much more if income GROWTH wasnt so strong)"

I called BS and told him to prove the claim but would like to thoroughly discredit him.

Is there a reliable measure on voluntary work status as a factor on household income?
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. My wife stays home by choice.. here's why...
Edited on Fri Oct-15-04 10:03 AM by WillW
First, she's a russian. She had her education, obtained for free under the rule of those terrible communists, evaluated here in the states as equiv. of TWO masters degrees... one in education and one in english language.

She can't find a job in this country that pays enough to cover the daycare costs for our kids. So instead of working just to pay for daycare, she stays home and we do what we can off of what we have from my paycheck (btw, I'm very lucky to have a pretty decent job at the moment, so I feel really blessed. I honestly don't know how other people do it. If my income were cut in half now (which is what I was making just two short years ago), we'd sink to the bottom).
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think I found what I need
Between 2001-2003 Houesholds with:

No earners up 1.4% (as a percentage of total households)
One earner up 3.4%
Two Earners down 4.2%

Over the same period median household income dropped 1.3%

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/h12ar.html

However, there is nothing in the census data that indicates whether or not these changes were voluntary. While some of us have voluntarily chosen to go from 2 earners to 1 earner (we made that choice in 2000 when our first was born), there is no evidence supporting the claim that the shifts are voluntary.
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's just my opinion but child care costs play a big role
With the only jobs available being low wage service jobs, it's cheaper for one parent to stay home and take care of the kids. The cost of child care may be close to the wages that the second earner would recieve. The second thing is to go to the Beareau of Labor statistics and look up the number of discouraged workers. These are the people who drop out because they don't think there are any jobs available. They show up in some of the other unemployment rate surveys.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Also cost of WORKING disappears for the stay at home spouse
For this note I will use the term "wife" for the stay at home spouse, for Wife is shorter to type, but I do include with the term "Wife" husband who stay at home.

There are several cost savings from having a stay at home wife other than cheaper day car costs, lets look at some:

First with the wife at home Auto Expenses can decline. Sometime this can be done by dropping off the Husband at his work while she keeps the car for the day (and picking him up at night), other times she can survive without a car do to be able to either walk, bike, or use public Transportation. Either way there is one less car to insured, to gas, to maintain, and even to find a parking space for. A car is a HUGE expense and if you can do with one instead of two you can save a lot of money.

Now many families will continue to have two cars but even here the cost can be reduced by less use do to the fact the wife is NOT driving to work everyday. Thus auto expense can be a Huge saving in having a stay at home wife.

Second, the growth of going out to eat is product of the wife working, she (and her husband) no longer have the time to cook every day. With the wife at home taking care of the kids, she can also cook and save the money a two working family has to spend on going out to eat. Now this was a BIGGER factor in the 1950s, 60s and 70s, since the 1970s the price of food (not only in the supermarket, but in fast-food, take out and even dinning out) have drop drastically. I remember the "Food Strike" of the early 1970s where American housewives protested the high costs of beef. A call went out to boycott beef do to its high prices. Gardens sprang up all over the place in the 1970s do to the high costs of food, most people stop doing gardening in the 1980s with the drop in food prices, but when the prices were high a stay at home wife could maintain a garden (while watching her Children) shop for the lowest prices possible etc. Given the drop in food prices since the early 1970s less of a factor now than then but still a factor that can save a family money if the wife stays at home.

Third the costs to the husband of having to do things a stay at home wife could do for him. Since the wife is working many a husband has to take his clothes to be dry cleaned instead of having his wife clean them, he has to take his car to be repaired (or his shoes repaired) instead of having his wife do it. This takes him off task and costs him money (from the lost time). A wife could do all of the above for him keeping him on the job to earn more money. My sister joked about this in some of her job, you could see that management assumed all of its people could work every day, for all of them had wives to take care of the little odds and ends jobs people have to have done. A stay at home wife can do all of those things, a working wife can not.

There was a Warner Brothers Cartoon that addressed this situation. It was made in the 1950s, in the Cartoon the Husband comes home and said he had a full day, and told his wife she should be happy she can stay at home and relax..... She gets upset and goes through her day doing all the little odds and end jobs mostly for him, that makes her life just a full if not fuller than his (At the end of the Cartoon she hits him with the rolling pin, it is a Warner Brother's Cartoon). The point of the Cartoon was her contribution to the household was as significant as his, even through she was a full time house wife. IT also showed many of the chores a stay at home housewife does that make life easier for her husband (and leave him stay more time on task at his job). These services a stay at home wife does are very valuable to the family, but given no "economic" value in themselves.

Fourth, extra time to spend in the community, while the husband is working the wife can keep the family connected to the community and both spouses' families. Another valuable service a stay at home wife performs for her husband and their family, but also given no economic value by economists.

Now I am not advocating stay at home spouses, it is a decision each family has to make, but I am only pointing out the costs saving such a wife provides to the family and to her husband. The main reason woman have entered the work force since 1970s (ignoring discrimination against woman in the work force prior to 1970) is that the above savings and services have been viewed as less important than cash income for the family. The need for extra income into the families of the 1980s to today to keep up the same standard of living of the 1950s and 1960s REQUIRES two income families. The drop in food prices really decrease the savings a family had with a stay at home wife, but with the increase of working wives you have costs incurred by those women working, the costs outlined above.
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BamaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. 15% in 2 years?
I'd love to see something supporting those numbers lol. Though I do have to say that I know several people (including myself) in my generation (Xer) who have chosen to stay home as opposed to our parents (Boomers). This is a source of great dissention between my mother and I. I'm wasting my education, ya know. :eyes: I paid for it. I'll do whatever I like with it lol.

I haven't worked in 4 years so we wouldn't be a part of those statistics. And are most decidedly NOT in a high income bracket (under 35k) and our income has not increased. It can be done. We don't have car loans, credit debt, etc. Just a 7yo mortgage. We have friends who both have to work and make not much more than us because of their consumer debt. Then complain about having to both work. It drives me up the damned wall. Don't complain about that and then go out and run up your credit card bill or finance another new car. That's my personal experience so don't jump down my throat about it lol! Incidentally, they are typically repugs. Is it a character flaw, ya think?

"I remember the "Food Strike" of the early 1970s where American housewives protested the high costs of beef. A call went out to boycott beef do to its high prices."

We need this to happen now. The price of beef, chicken, pork, and milk has gone thru the roof the last year. All food seems to have gone up. I'm spending $100 more a month now than I was this time last year, which wouldn't completely piss me if all my bills hadn't also gone up in this time period and we had actually gotten a cost of living raise this year (three years and counting on that dream). I do have a garden though. I'm not sure that it really helps, but it is nice to have fresh fruit and veggies.

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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-04 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Try this one
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_income20040826

Economic Policy Institute

They don't talk about the number of people working; the criteria is HOUSEHOLD earnings. Which fell after adjustment for inflation.

Which fell the hardest for those making the least...those which would, of necessity, have more than one wage earner.

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mastein Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. BLS cannot track that sort of data
"Voluntary" cannot be defined well enough is the problem. So I am afraid you won't be able to find what you seek.
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