I don't support Dean as a form of revenge against Kerry

[killbotfactory]

(crossposted here since it won't get burried in the forum as quickly)

I support Dean because I believe he is the best candidate we have and will defeat Bush. I like him because his positions very close to my own. I like him because he's not an idealogue and will come to positions based on his own analysis and their own merit, and if that goes against the grain of conventional wisdom, or the majority of his own party, he'll defend his stance and won't pander. I like that he is unscripted, and speaks from his heart. I like that he was a leader during this horrible Iraq war, when so many other people were falling in line behind Bush out of fear, or ignorance, or political expedience. I like his focus on empowering people to take back their country.

That's why I support Dean.

I don't support him as some childish backlash against Kerry's vote on the IWR. I assume that many supporters are the same as I. That's why when Kerry, or some of his supporters, attack Dean it does not help him.

Kerry was never entitled to my vote. If Kerry didn't vote for the IWR, I would still back Dean. If Kerry was vocally opposed to the war, as Dean was, when it mattered, I would still be for Dean.

I don't support Kerry because I don't think he's the best candidate we have. I don't like the way he's run his campaign. I don't like the arrogance that eminated from his campaign when Dean was nipping at his heals. I don't like the sense of entitlement I get from him or his supporters because he had a good resume in Congress for so many years. I don't like his overwelmingly negative obsession with Dean, especially when I feel his arguements insult my intelligence. I just don't like him as a candidate.

Kerry and his supporters can waste all the time they want, scrounging for the perfect Dean quote to spin, screaming "BIDEN LUGAR WAS NO DIFFERENT" at the top of your lungs, or calling Dean a flip-flopper, but it won't help Kerry one goddamn bit.

If Dean manages to lose my support (not goddamn likely), I wouldn't start supporting Kerry. He's not my second choice.

I am not some crazy leftist liberal looking for a savior to martyr themselves before Bush. I think for myself, and am not too persuaded by the conventional wisdom spouted by pundits (and they have a horrible track record), or kneejerk emotional reactions. I am just looking for a good candidate I can support in good concience, who will beat Bush, and I think Dean is the man.

[meegbear]

1. DUPE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=880462

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. Last I knew it wasn't against the rules to post

the same topic in two different forums. Not everyone visits both forums, and it's a good topic and probably should be in both forums.

[Demobrat]

3. I hadn't seen it before.

And I loved it.

[DemOutWest]

4. Thanks. You have good

reasons why you support Dean.

I support Kerry. Not because of his vote on the IWR, but because he is the best qualified to lead this country after we get rid of Bush.

Senator Kerry has always spoken his mind and has defended the right of all americans. His congressional record is outstanding and open for all to see. He has champioed the causes of the environment, education, Veteran's rights, Medicare and so much more.

He will not change his stance on an issue because it is politically motivated. He is a true progressive who will try new and different ways to correct the path our country is on.

He has Foreign Policy experience that will help bring our country to the leadership role in this world that we belong in.

He is a decorated veteran who has stood up for what he believes is right and stood against what he believes is wrong.

I do not support Howard Dean because I have no idea what side of an issue he is on. Agrees with Bush, doesn't agree with Bush. 100% rating by NRA, For Gun Control. Protector of the environment, a friend of IBM, the biggest polluter in Vermont.

Which Dean is running in this primary. That smirk. Dean supporters looking down on me because I support the best qualified candidate. Arrogance! OMG, listen to Dean Supporters once in awhile.

I do think Howard Dean has done a tremendous job in getting people involved in the process. I was angry at what bush has done to this country. I knew why I was angry, I did not need someone to tell me why. I check the issues of all the candidates. John Kerry met my views the best, not Howard Dean.

DemOutWest
John Kerry The Real Deal in 2004

[drfemoe]

9. man .. my eyesight

is not the best, so when I read your sig line I thought is said
John Kerry The Real Dean in 2004

:crazy:

I appreciate what you say about your candidate.
And I appreciate that you didn't resort to trashing mine in order to build up yours, which imo would be at cross purposes to that goal.

:thumbsup:

[adadem]

10. Excellent

Thank you, DemOutWest...very well put.

[helleborient]

5. Makes perfect sense to me...

And yes, it's very easy to get very tired of the insults from the Kerry camp that we're not intelligent enough to choose Kerry and from the Kucinich camp that ideological purity demands that Kucinich be chosen.

Howard Dean has brought far more people together in a constructive manner during this campaign than any other candidate. Monthly Meetups around the world - continual charitable acts around the state of Iowa - contributions to Democratic candidates for Congress - it goes on and on.

[DemOutWest]

6. Sorry.

I did not mean to insult Governor Dean or his supporters. That is unlike me. It just seems to be a lot of Kerry Bashing going on.

I respect your views.

Respect the Kerry Supporters views.

I researched ALL of the candidates and made my choice as you did also.

Dean is way down the list for me and dropping because I'm really not sure who he is.

[DemOutWest]

7. I'm a little new

here. What type of insults.
I am a Kerry supporter. I've been flamed more by Deanies on my opinions than any other camp.

I agree, it would be a better forum if people debated the issue and the strengths of each candidate.


I have spoken to many people in NH the past few days and most are still undecided.

[KaraokeKarlton]

15. It's a viscious circle DemOutWest

The Dean supporters here have been called "cult members" and even "Nazis" by some Kerry supporters as well as supporters of other candidates. After awhile it wears on you and makes you a heck of a lot more defensive than you would be. Unfortunately, you got the displeasure of paying for what some other Kerry supporter did or said to offend the Dean supporters who let you have it.

[lastliberalintexas]

8. Good post kbf

I too support Dean for more than his anti-Iraq war stance. While Kerry's vote may have been what made me start looking at other candidates, it was not what made me decide on Dean. In fact, Kerry is still my #2 choice, and I would be happy to support him in the GE. At least if his campaign consultants would lay off this crap. :-)

But I looked at Dean's stands on other issues before deciding on him. I *like* the fact that he has usually gotten good ratings from the NRA and that he is fiscally responsible and balanced budgets in Vermont despite the fact that it wasn't constitutionally required. I also liked how he spoke out against Shrub harder than most of the other candidates, at a time when the vast majority our Dem officials were bending over backwards for the Boy King. After all, it wasn't very popular to be "anti-war" or tagged as such last fall. Yes, he's more conservative than I am- so is Kucinich, btw. But IMHO, he had the best *combination* of issues/positions, campaign tactics and strategies, and passion to stand up to this administration. That is why I ended up in his camp, even when he was an afterthought in the campaign and in polls.

I also remember many posts from people here at DU who were demanding that same kind of behavior/rhetoric from our Dem leaders. Yet some of those same people are now some of the most vocal Dean detractors! Funny how some things have changed on this board in the last year.

[deutsey]

11. Well said

I started as a Kerry supporter who actually defended his IWR vote (and I've been a major anti-war activist since after 9/11).

Kerry lost my support because he would talk tough against Bush but then would vote for everything Bush put before Congress. I grew disillusioned with Kerry and most Democrats after their support for the Patriot Act and tax cuts. I damn near left the Democratic Party after the 2002 debacle. But then I learned more about the grassroots effort inspired by Gov. Dean. It brought me back to the Democratic Party and I've been an energized, active member ever since.

So I didn't go to Dean as a form of revenge against Kerry, either. My choice to join Dean's campaign was motivated by something more positive. If only Kerry had been able to continue inspiring that in me, I would have stayed with him. I say not as a swipe against Kerry, but in real disappointment.

[Upfront]

12. I Sand with you Sir

I hope some day to shake your hand. You said it all.:toast:

[dsc]

13. great post

I actually was no where near as anti war as Dean. He was right and I was wrong though.

[DrFunkenstein]

14. All Slogans, No Policies Mentioned In Your Reasoning

I could go point for point and dismiss alot of what you're saying, but I think the title of my post says enough.

[LuminousX]

16. Policy posts sink like rocks

[killbotfactory]

17. It wasn't about policy

I could go down the list of policies where I fall next to Dean, but that wasn't the point.

And we don't nominate presidents based soley on their resume, anyway.

[dsc]

18. Last time I put up a policy post

after you claimed we never put them up, I got zero (count them 0) repsonses. Luminous did a little better but he still got only a bit over 30 on two threads. Maybe if people actually showed some sign of having read policy posts they would exist.

On edit and just so I don't get accused of cherry picking. I put up two well researched and time consuming threads on tax policy. One got over 20 responses (sounds great) but nearly all of those were a sidetrack about the IWR. The second got 3. I put up several policy threads on gay rights. I got maybe 15 on the most responded to. And to be blunt it isn't like you have responded to a whole heck of a lot of them.

[maxr4clark]

19. Policy posts for Dean

I'm relatively new here, and don't know how to find your policy posts. Can you post a link or two for me? I'm not looking to argue against Dean, although if I feel motivated I might comment on why I like Clark in response. That's what I'm looking for on this blog, info from Dean supporters about policies that they like from Dean. I really do want to be able to support Dean intelligently, if he gets the nom.

Thanks in advance.

[maxr4clark]

20. actually

...I learned that Dean chose to balance the budget in Vermont, even though it wasn't required by law. That's the most impressive thing I've heard about Dean in Vermont.

Not all slogans after all.