Attention all Dean supporters...

[KaraokeKarlton]

Let's settle this once and for all.

Do you know that Howard Dean is a moderate/centrist or are you under the false impression that he is an "ultra liberal"?

[dofus]

1. I know he's a

moderate/centrist. He's no where near as liberal as I'd like, but he makes it crystal clear he's not a flaming liberal.

[T Roosevelt]

2. Yes, we all get it

Many (probably most) of us knew this from the beginning, despite the best efforts of the press to portray him as otherwise.

[mandyky]

10. The press labeled him liberal,

because he was against the Iraq war. I am not sure I think he is a centurist either. He is pragmatic - a fiscal conservative but a social progressive. Dean is definitely a maverick and independent, and does not deal in ideology, but with facts based on real science and study, unlike the current administration.

[Abe Linkman]

3. Yes.

I know that Howard Dean is either a conservative, moderate, or progressive. I also know that he is interested in ideas while most other people are not. I also know that his supporters want the public to think of him as a moderate, not a liberal or a conservative.

Oh, and I know that his most enthusiastic supporters can find all kinds of reasons to get his name before visitors to certain Web sites.

[RogueTrooper]

4. Yup

and I, for one, have always thought of him as a centerist. And he is a centerist who does not engage in Union bashing. He is a centerist who stands up for the rights of all Americans.

[Larkspur]

5. He's a moderate/centrist or a pragmatic progressive

They mean the same to me.

Kucinich and other far leaning left liberals may have some good ideas, but they haven't a clue how to market them to middle America. Dean has experience getting some progressive policies passed and does a good job explaining the pros and cons of tax cuts vs social services to middle America.

[RogueTrooper]

12. I prefer

militant pragmatist :evilgrin:

[hippiechick]

6. Yep ... it's called researching a candidate

... before you support them.

I would LOVE an ultra-liberal as our nominee next year but what needs to be fixed in this country cannot be done by putting another polarizing force in the White House.

Clinton was so successful because he played give -n- take with the GOP in order to gain what he thought were the most important victories for domestic policy.

Compromise is going to HAVE TO happen by whoever the Dem Prez is, in order to right this sinking ship.

Dean's the one who can do it simply because he is a moderate/ centrist on several policies, IMO.

:hippie:

[demnan]

7. Yes

Most of us know that an ultra-liberal will never be elected in this country. I believe Dean is the most electable of the candidates.

[Pez]

8. you guys should keep this one quiet...

...here in nyc-- else you lose a ton of supporters to actual liberal candidates. methinks the kiddies are under the impression that he is liberal. i guess "liberals" have the "shouter" label cornered...

[KaraokeKarlton]

13. Actually, the majority of America is in the middle

n/t

[Pez]

15. really? i didn't know nyc != all.

but a majority of the big gatherings that get a lot of national air-time are on the coasts. that's where the liberals gather and make noise for the tv.

[KaraokeKarlton]

18. So you are claiming that all of NYC is liberal?

Really?

That's pretty funny and blatantly false.

[Pez]

22. it's funny you would make a "blatantly false" assumption about my thoughts

your post had absolutely nothing to do with mine... but don't let that stop you from starting an argument where there is none!! :D

[KaraokeKarlton]

26. Well, you were implying that NYC is more liberal than the rest of the US

and that's false.

[LuminousX]

23. I'm confused

Your tone is one of trying to be helpful while it is well known you do not support Dean. Which would you prefer, to perpetuate a myth that Dean is a McGovern ultra-liberal or for the Truth of Dean's positions to be disseminated among all of Dean's supporters?

If Dean suddenly loses his support, isn't that a good thing for you?

[Bozola]

9. Thanks for the simplistic labeling.

Heaven forbid that any of the candidates are "conservative" on some issue, but "liberal" on others. It's certainly MUCH more convenient to give them a single, overly simplistic, but utterly meaningless label.



Yawn.

[KaraokeKarlton]

He's actually pretty hard to label

And I'm a Dean supporter. I'm just sick of hearing Kerry's Kids whine incessantly about how Dean's supporters need to be "rescued" from being "fooled" into thinking that Dean is an ultra liberal. Ironically, since Kerry's Kids seem to think it's normal for people to back a candidate without bothering to check into their record and views it sure does make it a lot easier to understand why THEY support Kerry. :D

[Bozola]

36. Agreed

I'm after the guy who can
1) kick BushieBoys a$$
2) clean up the mess sh*thead made
3) be a capable administrator

In my *humble* opinion, that is Howard Dean, to which I've given up time from my life, and a considerable amount of cash.

Whomever wins the nomination, Lieberman excepted (he is another Bush puppet & he lookes like the evil emperor from Star Wars), will have my FULL support and cash donations.

[Upfront]

11. M/C

M/C all the way. He is what he says he is. All one need do is listen.

[Pez]

14. so when dean says...

...he's the "democratic wing of the democratic party" and labels the other candidates "bush-lite" what does that make him? how do you interpret his many statements? does that just mean everyone else sucks, or that he is more <fill in the blank for him here>?

democratic wing of the democratic party = liberal?
bush-lite = conservative?
dean > all?

he says he's a m/c. which he is. more c than m...

and a lot of his supporters here in nyc think he's liberal... so would you tell them he's actually not, or would you let them think whatever as long as they wear the shirts and fork out the dough?

[dajabr]

17. Simple: The Democratic wing of the Democratic party =

The wing that OPPOSES the Bush* MisAdministration

Edit to add that I live in the NYC area and have never been under the impression that Dean is an "Ultra-Liberal."

[Pez]

20. i'm just speaking from experience

i don't assume to know the thoughts of all people in the city ;-)

just the ones i've spoken to...

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pez]

24. cool thanks!

[Larkspur]

30. What does it make Dean

when Dean says he's the "democratic wing of the democratic party" and labels the other candidates "bush-lite" what does that make him?

That, like a lot of us, he is pissed at the poor quality of leadership from the Democrats in Congress, especially the senate.

The Day of Infamy for this Democrat was Oct 10, 2002 when Gephardt and Lieberman appeared with Bush in the Rose Garden after they, Kerry, Edwards, and a bunch of other senators voted for the war resolution.

So when Dean says that he's here to represent the "democratic wing of the democratic party", I interpret it as he is willing to champion the righteous anger us Democrats have at being betrayed by our own leaders and to lead us to a reformation of our Party and our Country.

Every generation needs a new revolution.-- Thomas Jefferson.
It's long past time for a new American Revolution. Viva la Dean!

[lastliberalintexas]

39. Yes, but

that distinction is lost on so many here at DU. For those people, Bushlite = Conservative/Moderate, when that is simply not the case. I agree with the Kerry supporters that he is more liberal than Dean on some issues. But his actions during the past 3 years have reminded me of so many Dems in Congress in the early 80s after Reagan's win. They may not have shifted to the right in belief, but they sure as heck did so in votes! And after all, that is where it really matters.

While Dean and Kucinich were out there taking the "unpopular" stands and railing against Shrub, the other guys were in Congress voting for him. That is what took Kerry from my #1 choice to #2.

[many a good man]

16. He's a Rockefeller Republican...

...and that's considered left wing nowadays! Definitely left of center, any way.

I can't see how anyone who has heard him can think he's ultra-liberal. He's a common sense fiscal conservative and socially liberal incrementalist.

I think he can be very attractive to a lot of people who are frightened of the L word because he's so pragmatic and phrases his issues in clever ways.

BTW, Dean said in a WP interview "thirty years I'd be considered a Rockefeller Republican!"

[RetroLounge]

19. Let's settle this once and for all.

Boy are you dreaming...

p.s. He's M/C

[KaraokeKarlton]

25. Oh, I know Kerry supporters will still cry over this

and claim that when everyone finds out Dean isn't really more liberal than Kerry that everyone will suddenly support Kerry. The fact is, however, that Dean supporters KNOW Dean isn't a liberal and that anyone as liberal as Kerry tends to get lampooned in the general election.

[eyesroll]

35. I've actually gotten that from some Kucinich supporters

Most of the DK supporters I know either try to sway me in their direction by playing up their guy's strengths -- maybe comparing him to Dean, maybe on his own. They have convincing arguments, and well-reasoned talking points. I then counter with why I'm supporting Dean, and generally we agree to disagree (although there's some good-natured teasing on both sides, if I know the other person well enough). I respect most of the DK people I know enough, and hopefully they respect me enough, that we can have good political discussions/arguments without resorting to insulting each other's intelligence.

But.

There are a few -- a very few, but enough -- who try with the "Dean's not a liberal" argument. These people are generally strangers I meet at parties or activist events. When they say it like this: "ohyou'rejustaDeansupporterbecauseaDeansupporterisreallyaprogressivewhohasn'theardKucinichspeakandDeanhasnoneckandhesstiffandohbutwhenyourealizeyourguyisn'tapacifistandhewon'tcancelnaftaandhesnotforsinglepayerhealthcareyou'llcomerunningtoKucinich."
I've heard this argument a few times, it's old news, and a couple of people who said it to me really thought they were playing "gotchya." Like I was too dumb to do my homework. Those people insult my intelligence. I don't care for it, and they're not helping their candidate by doing it.

OK, to be fair, I've met Dean people who try the same technique on DK supporters:"Ohyoucan'tsupportKucinichbecauseheflipfloppedonabortionandhestoofarlefttogetelectedandlookwhathappenedtoHillarycaresinglepayerandhelookslikeanelfandhowcanweelectanelf?"
I think this is equally insulting. It gets us nowhere, and will not help when we need to come together to get * out of office.

I have to say I've never met a Kerry person (offline) who used that technique, though. I don't know whether it's just my sample size (Milwaukee area) is small, or the Kerry people out here are just nicer, or more logical, or less passionate about their candidate, or whatever.

[pansypoo53219]

27. and that is why he will

bushwack george in 04'.

[Duder]

28. Yup, as one Vermont paper said...

He defies labels, following a pragmatic, not partisan, path. Perhaps because he is a doctor he focuses on the immediate problem at hand, tries his best to solve it and then moves on.

[CMT]

29. He is a Bill Clinton Democrat

on some positions he is liberal and others he is a moderate. He got labeled a "McGovernite" liberal just because he opposed the war. AS if only a liberal can be against a war. Like Clinton he wants to do things like balance the budget and provide health insurance to all.
However, I think he will be more bold than Clinton on some issues such as he was with the Civil Unions in Vermont. I think that Dean is probably very much within the mainstream.

[blm]

34. The Vermont Supreme Court made Dean bold.

He did NOT pursue the Civil Unions as his own "bold" measure.

[LuminousX]

40. Did he or did he not embrace it afterwards?

Or did he try to run from it?

[indigo32]

41. Oh it would be asking way to much

to give him any credit...

frankly
I am a lesbian and I take extreme offense when people try and belittle actions taken on my behalf as part of that community.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

42. Good. So you'll understand the resentment of those in the fight

long before Dean ever got a clue on any of these issues.
Yes, Dean hopped on board the wagon (and he's quite welcome), but he was certainly no leader.

[indigo32]

43. But you see

I never discount what the other candidates have done in this area... and neither does Dean. There is absolutely no resentment necessary.

[killbotfactory]

45. Here's Dean, not leading.

Governor Dean Supports Gay Rights - 1992
Governor Howard Dean, in his State of the State Address before the Vermont Legislature on January 7th, included support for the full civil rights of lesbians and gays in his agenda for the current legislative session.

"I also ask this General Assembly to continue Vermont's strong tradition of civil rights by passing the gay rights bill so that no group of Vermonters suffers from bigotry and intolerance."

February 02, 1992

As Governor, Dean has historically sided with Vermont’s gay and lesbian community. He is credited with helping pass and ultimately signed into law legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He also supported the extension of benefits to the domestic partners of Vermont State employees. In 1994, Dean appointed Bill Lippert, an openly gay man, to fill a vacant seat in the House of Representatives. As a result of Vermont’s civil union law, The Advocate, a national gay newsmagazine, dubbed him the "Dean of Unions."

December 12th, 2002

"What I need to get across to the gay community and our allies is that Dean, although a centrist Democrat, has put himself on the line out there on civil unions and the community as a whole," Lippert stressed. "He has steadfastly recognized civil unions as a civil rights issue. I absolutely support his re-election despite differences on other issues. This is not the time for gays and lesbians to turn our backs . He has earned our support over and over."

September, 2000

OITM: Immediately after the Supreme Court’s Baker ruling, you sided with domestic partnership legislation. How did you come to make this decision and what role do you think your position played in the ultimate outcome of the debate?

Dean: I knew that marriage was impossible and that the legislature would just kill themselves. They couldn’t do it; they’d fall into terrible disarray. I thought the court decision left civil union as a legal alternative, which would grant the rights and the benefits, as they required. I thought that in time Vermonters would come to accept that. In the end, I think my position gave cover to a lot of people in the legislature. It really helped legislators who were struggling with the issue.

OITM: When you finally announced your position, you said that gay marriage made you "uncomfortable like everyone else." Can you clarify what you meant by that and specifically what about gay marriage makes you uncomfortable?

Dean: The truth is that it is the politics that made me uncomfortable. (Personally) I’m sure that I have the same hang-ups that lots of people have on the issue. But it is a matter of equity. I remain convinced that of the 50 percent of people who are opposed to this, that half of those are fundamentally decent human beings and this is just a vast change for them that they’ve never considered before. I consider those people people who will ultimately accept the equality of gays and lesbians and stop marginalizing them. Those are the people that I have to speak to.

June, 2000

Is there any gay or lesbian voter who would not stand in line on Election Day to vote for Governor Dean? If I were eligible to vote in Vermont, I would literally crawl, swim, walk over hot coals (whatever I had to do) to cast my vote for him. I realize that I am the ultimate "flatlander" "a Texan" but also I have been a political activist in our movement for 29 years. I know this is true: we must, we absolutely must stand up for those who have stood for us. Howard Dean backed civil unions and signed the bill that gave ALL of us in the United States the most sweeping set of legal rights in our lifetime.

October, 2000

Some BLTG people in Vermont may feel that Anthony Pollina is more sympathetic and responsive to our community, but the political reality of the civil union legislation as being only a part of a national movement for our civil rights is that we need to stick by and vote for Howard Dean.

If we as a voting bloc are seen as having turned our backs on Governor Dean for his reelection bid, it would send a message to politicians from sea to shining sea: BLTG voters desert their allies without provocation. Furthermore, if Dean loses the election it would send a message to politicians of every ilk: Allying with the BLTG community by helping implement groundbreaking legislation is political suicide.

I’m voting for Howie because I respect a man who can see past his discomfort with us and support our struggle for full civil rights. (Think about that for one second: it’s a greater act of courage to champion the rights of a group you are uncomfortable with.) His infamous remark to the effect that: I’m as uncomfortable with homosexuality as anyone else or some such never bothered me at all. I considered it to be a remarkably candid statement coming from a politician. He doesn’t have to love me, he just has to understand that I deserve a seat at the table, and act to help me occupy my seat. (How many BLTG people do you know who can’t be bothered to work for their own rights?)

October, 2000

As I reported in the January edition of Out in the Mountains, seventeen GLBTQ youth met with Governor Howard Dean this past November. He expressed great support for gay/straight alliances and took a firm stand against homophobic harassment in schools. "At the meeting with Governor Dean," accounts Cindy Marcelle, a teenager from New Haven, "I stopped seeing him as a man on the 6:00 news. I started seeing him as a father, an ally; and most of all, as a friend." Since then, Dean has written a letter to school principals in support of GLBTQ youth and worked with Marc Hull, the Commissioner of Education.

June, 1998

OITM: Would President Dean have signed the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)?

Dean: No.

OITM: What is your position on the bill proposed by Nancy Sheltra (R-Derby) that would make same gender marriage in Vermont illegal?

Dean: I don't support that. I think we have to see what the courts say before we react preemptively. There is a very difficult issue here and that is that the institution of marriage, from a non religious point of view, provides a huge number of civil rights that are not available to people who are not married. That issue has to be addressed. If it isn't going to be addressed in terms of marriage, it has to be addressed a different way. But I don't think it is appropriate for the legislature to get involved until we know what the ground rules are.

May, 1998

[killbotfactory]

31. He's liberal where I am, and moderate where I am.

Pro-Balance Budgets
Pro-Civil Rights
Pro-Universal Healthe care (I like his approach the best)
Anti-Idealogue
Anti-More gun control

I like him just fine.

And best of all, he'll owe nothing to big business when he gets elected!

[unfrigginreal]

32. He's from the McGovern-Gingrich wing of the Democratic Party!

Shamefully stolen from a clever Dean blogger.

[OKNancy]

33. Did you guys see this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/21/60II/main579140.shtml

Nice little summary of Dan Rather interview. Loved when he talked about his wife.

[deutsey]

37. I've always known that about Dean because he's been up front

about it since I've been involved, anyway.

What attracts me to him is that, as a centrist who seems very open to the left, he has a broad appeal to a wide coalition of supporters.

[indigo32]

38. I know who he is

mostly moderate/centrist...
he's never denied this either.

[w4rma]

44. Dean is a passionate centrist in the mold of President Truman.

The passionate centrist

NEW YORK -

At the end of summer and onset of fall, pundits are gearing up for the Democratic presidential primaries. Recently, columnists have churned out a slew of articles profiling, criticizing and praising the candidates. Rating the candidates, writers have given the health insurance gold medal to Kerry, the centrist medal to Lieberman and the leftist medal to Dean.

Absent from all this politicking, however, is discussion on the Democratic strategy. Aside from TIME magazine's "How to Build a Better Democrat," no columnist has provided a comprehensive or innovative view of the identity Democrats need to assume in the coming election.

It seems each party is having an identity crisis. George Will, the conservative columnist for the Washington Post, stated, "Foreign and domestic developments constitute an identity crisis of conservatism, which is being recast - and perhaps rendered incoherent." In an effort to broaden their image, Republicans created an unassailable facade of "compassion," claiming to be "for" all those typically overlooked by the system: the elderly, minorities, the poor.

A cue for Democrats: To broaden your image, embrace the idea of passionate centrism. A 1997 USA Today story quoted then Governor of Vermont Howard Dean as calling himself a "passionate centrist." A cursory look at his governorship proves this to be true. And so, Dean's success, both as a governor (he's won five consecutive elections) and a presidential candidate, is based on impassioned moderation.
…
http://www.michigandaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/08/04/3f2de34c3b301
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=41955

…
Of course last week's Dean hype managed to do both at once. It knocked him down by setting him up, in a way. No longer was the question “Is he too liberal to be electable?” Reporters belatedly scoured his record and discovered a fiscal conservative who put balanced budgets before social spending in Vermont, who opposes federal gun control legislation and backs the death penalty for certain crimes. Now the make-or-break question about Dean became: “Will liberals desert him when they figure out that he's actually a moderate?” Then came other pre-fab worries about the problems of sudden success: Had Dean peaked too soon? Could his fledgling campaign handle the attention? And OK, maybe he was moderate enough to be electable, but was he likable enough? Was his reputation for “straight talk” just a euphemism for brusque and arrogant?

Hanging out with the local Dean folks was my way of getting out of what his campaign dismisses as “the media echo chamber,” and trying to figure out what's really going on. I've lived here almost 20 years. I know the San Francisco Dean phenomenon is not a microcosm of what it will take to get him elected; I saw the way the GOP smeared House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi -- and pushed her to the center some -- by calling her a “San Francisco Democrat” before she even took over the leadership post. I know we're DLC founder Al From's worst nightmare. But I also saw some intriguing things following Dean around San Francisco at the end of July, and talking to his supporters the week after he'd gone. The Bay Area Dean machine is attracting more than the usual suspects: It's neither the Greens nor the City Hall regulars; it's neither the moneyed elite nor the rabble; it's not just the young and the hip; it's not ponytailed '60s holdovers -- it's all of them, and then some. I met Republicans and Ross Perot voters who were supporting the antiwar candidate who promises to repeal Bush's tax cuts. And I met Dean himself, and watched two speeches. You can't get his charisma without seeing him in person.
…
The UFCW crowd seemed a lot like Donna Brazile: They were ready to love everybody. Only the leftier candidates -- Kucinich, Carol Moseley Braun, Gephardt and Dean -- showed up; Sharpton couldn't make it, but Kerry appeared by satellite, as befits his attempt to be a more centrist liberal. All of them got big cheers. These were the folks Al From tried to warn us about. But if Dean hadn't been red-baited by the DLC, you might well hear him as the moderate in the race. He criticized Kucinich and Moseley Braun's call for single-payer universal healthcare, the left's politically impossible dream, as well as Gephardt's expensive public-private hybrid. Kerry vied with Dean for the moderate mantle with his relatively modest healthcare plan, but overall Dean came off as the fiscal conservative in the bunch. Amazingly, he got the biggest hand from this union audience when he called George Bush a “borrow and spend, credit-card Republican” and promised to erase the deficit if he's elected.
…
One thing I don't worry about is that his lefty base doesn't know what he stands for, and will bolt when they realize he's a moderate. His base knows exactly how moderate he is. I interviewed dozens of his liberal devotees, and they all know the not-so-liberal aspects of his record. Someone at the Meetup lamented his staunch pro-Israel stance; several people I met said they differed with him on the death penalty. Brilliant says he has issues with Dean on all of his more conservative stands. “But he's not afraid to say what he thinks. Dean asks the fundamentally sound questions and does not have an ideological answer that trumps reason, as Bush does.”
…
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/08/11/dean/

[Nazgul35]

46. I live in a multidimensional universe...

and am willing to consider a candidate on more than a single issue. Some of the Governors positions are not the same as mine, some are, and some are the complete opposite...but overall, he is the candidate that I feel best represents my personal issue space across all dimensions....

:evilgrin:

but some think I drink koolaid and am stupid cause I see things in more than a single issue dimension....oh, well....

[Padraig18]

47. I'd call him a populist. n/t

[Meshuga]

48. In fact...

...according to Dean liberal is a bad word.

[Larkspur]

50. Except if you use it in context of a politician who balances budgets

then Dean is all for it.

[drfemoe]

49. tags

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html

[JohnKleeb]

51. Am I really that far left?

Because I am like a negative -8 on political compass. The British standards are different but Ive taken that test before and I really had no idea I was that far left. Weird. Kucinich would be like mainstream over there but here :argh: hes too left, get me my bags J/K but damn I feel so ummm weird not weird but I cant explain.

[LuminousX]

52. This chart bothers me.

Why are nearly all our candidates Right of Center?

[JohnKleeb]

54. have you taken political compass ever

and this is a British thingie so that could explain it. Damn I am so damned left.

[LuminousX]

55. Oh My

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/questionnaire.pl?page=printable_graph&X=-4.75&Y=-5.03

I'm a Libertarian-Leftist!

[JohnKleeb]

56. Youre a centrist compared to me Lum

I rounded up to negative 8 on both sides. I dont have my conclusion on me but I know thats around what I get.

[no name no slogan]

58. Because they're "electable"

It's all part of the "electability" myth that gets repeated ad infinitum ad nauseum by the mass media and so-called "centrist" elements of the DNC. This is the belief that we don't want to nominate a candidate who will "offend" the 10% of our electorate known as "swing voters".

Unfortunately, buying into this "electability" meme is part of the reason why Democrats have taken a beating over the last 10-12 years. We keep running candidates who are "not as bad" as the Republicans, which leaves our voters with a choice between "the evil of two lessers". No wonder voter participation rates are spiralling ever downward-- why bother voting if your choices are "bad" and "worse"?

Even our own party platform is more left/libertarian than 90% of our presidential candidates. What would be nice is if we could actaully nominate a candidate who shares the views that our platform reflects.

"But look what happened to George McGovern" I hear the peanut gallery declare. "He was a liberal and he got clobbered". But look at the trajectory his campaign took: he started off as an "outsider", a true liberal. Once he got the nomination, the so-called "pros" took over, alienating his early grassroots supporters yet still not convincing the "moderates" to support him, either. Add in the Eagleton mess and Nixon's foul play, and his defeat makes perfect sense.

For a more recent example, look at the 2002 congressional races. The Democrats who stood up to BushCo and opposed his agenda in congress overwhelmingly won re-election, while those who played the DLC "me too, but not as much" Repub-Lite card went down in flames.

If we offer up a strong candidate, one who represents REAL Democratic views and ideals, we CAN win the presidency. The "moderate" path of late has done little for this party-- even with Clinton's two "victories", he never won more than 50% of the popular vote.

We need a candidate who is unafraid to be a liberal and a Democrat, who is not afraid to stand up to the inevitable smear campaign that will be waged against him/her by telling the TRUTH.

[dsc]

53. Only in IP policy

has he suprised me with a position he has taken. I like most of what he has done in that regard and what I don't like (for example guns) I knew about.

[mzmolly]

57. Centrist, socially liberal, fiscally responsible!

GO DEAN!!!!

[polpilot]

59. or....The Perfect Combination!!!!

Dean '04...

[polpilot]

60. I'd say ultra-brilliant, 'centered', winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean '04...The New Democratic Leader of The NEW Democratic Party.