Heart Versus Head:

[LWolf]

Finding Hope and Fighting Your Inner Wimp
Rob Kall OpEdNews.Com

I haven't spoken to a progressive, a liberal, yet who has not told me that he or she loves Kucinich, that Dennis is hands down the first democratic candidate choice. But then I hear the story-- "he doesn't have a chance.." "there's no hope..." My reply is: "That's what they all said about Dean six months ago." I can live with Dean. He's a good guy. But I am not ready to give up on Dennis Kucinich. On issue after issue, Kucinich has the right policies, the right answers and perhaps most important, the right history.

He'll take the US out of the World Trade Organization as soon as he's elected. He'll cancel the tax breaks Bush handed over to the wealthy. He'll cancel NAFTA. He'll start a department of peace. Now the right wingers laugh at the idea of a department of peace. But then there's Maslow's widely cited saying, "If you all you have is a hammer, then everything is a nail."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you find yourself acknowledging Kucinich in your heart, then get the word out. Tell your family and friends and neighbors and co-workers about him.

If the American colonists listened to people who said they could never defeat the King George's redcoats, where would we be? Those courageous pioneers faced daunting odds and made a stand.

Be brave, go with your heart and trust that your heart is wiser than your head, which is where the wimp in you resides. Aren't you really sick of settling for less than the best, when it comes to American leadership? You can settle for what your head thinks is best later.

http://www.opednews.com/kall10010301Heart_Versus_Hope.htm

[dpbrown]

1. This is what grassroots is

No one gets elected if no one believes in them.

Kucinich inspires people like I've never seen before.

If we make the effort, he will win.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[LWolf]

21. You're right, Dan.

Kucinich inspires me, and that's a shock. I've never been inspired by a politician. Not in 25 years of voting. And I'm not the only one. I'm hopeful. We can elect him.

[genius]

2. We need to do it to set an example for the children of America

that the best can win.

[RandomUser]

3. Keep believing!

I think idealism is a good thing. If you believe in Kucinich, you should keep supporting him till he drops or it gets closer to the primaries and he's still too low on the polls. This far out, he still has a chance. Keep the faith. Not blind faith. But faith because you believe in what your candidate stands for.

Just like the reason I support Clark.

Good luck with Kucinich.

[RandomUser]

4. No heart and head conflict for me :)

My heart and head both agree with Clark.

But I understand the conflict you have with Kucinich. Good luck.

[JohnKleeb]

5. heart and head for me

I just admire this man. I wont give up.

[RandomUser]

6. Keep at it

But if it he drops out (which I don't think he will), or it's the week before primaries and he's at 2%, I hope you'll take a look at Clark. You may end up being the deciding vote between the top two frontrunners. You can play an important role if Kucinich is at 2% on the morning of the primary vote.

Good luck with Kucinich.

[JohnKleeb]

7. Who knows he could be pretty far by then

People may get some sense. Actually I wont be a factor, I am too young. The problem is, that I frankly think its that the media doesnt pay attention and the people who do know about him have their superficality. Flame me if you want guys but Ive read some of the polls here. Maybe I am better off in Canada where supposely I would be in the mainstream. We must support this noble candiate with ideas that we all cherish. Its a shame that superficality has a lot to do with it. I am told that hes too short lol only an inch smaller than Dean, and Clark who I think is 5'9 that makes him two inches, his looks lol like I care about what he looks like tell you what tell me when the beauty paegant is over, and his "ethnic" name, I dont deny he has an ethnic name but ironically thats a plus for me. Some of us know how Irish Americans in 1960 were excited by JFK as was my dad who is half irish and I am 25% myself, and also Dennis is but hes more known as a Croatian American, I am a South Slavic American too, and it would be nice to have one of our own in the white house. Of course I support him because he kicks ass on the issues and is the best guy.

[RandomUser]

8. Not all the opposition is based on superfaciality

For some people, the looks matter, and they're basing their opposition on it. But for others, I think they don't agree with his ideas. And there are some who find the ideas of other candidates more appealing.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Look the polls here

50% said if it was all about issues they would support him
40% on their personal politics they are progressives who wanna change the system. Thats what most of the attacks are on his looks, height, and ethnicity, not attacks but "unelectable". Hes not that ugly though, if looks matter to people sigh maybe Canada is better or Europe.

[RandomUser]

14. Yes

I'm not disagreeing that many reject him because of looks. I'm just pointing out that that's not the case for all the opposition. For instance, you say 50% would support him if it wasn't about looks -- that means that there's another 50% on the other side for whom looks is not the reason they oppose him.

[veganwitch]

9. youre joking, right??

first choice kucinich
second, clark??

im so flabbergasted by that proposal that i can not even think of what else to say.

but regardless, please tell me how, other than being a four-star general, clark is an appropriate second choice.

[JohnKleeb]

11. got me

Ive already have my second choice. Flame me all you want but I think its Kerry or Edwards.

[veganwitch]

12. i wasnt refering to you, babe

i just saying to randomuser, to propose that some one who supports kucinich (and all the baggage that goes with that and by baggage i mean of a certain political mind set) should rally around clark is quite laughable.

its like telling a veg*n (and knowing they are veg*n) "if you dont find anything on the menu you like, try the steak."

[RandomUser]

13. You should be free to choose whoever you want

And I'm not going to try to forceably badger you till you agree with my choice. The democrats are the party of the bit tent, in my opinion. Despite those who keep candidate-bashing on GD :)

There are lots of arguments around and I'm sure there are plenty of Clark supporters who would be willing to help convince you if you just asked to be proselytized to, lol.

You need to study each person, and decide for yourself. I guess I can only speak for myself, and I'm not sure what issues are your main concern. But Clark supports some of the things Kucinich does, like fair trade. Clark has proposed a Department of International Assistance that is not identical to Kucinich's Department of Peace, but bears some common themes.

Clark and Kucinich are, in my opinion, very brilliant. I don't want to offend anyone, but they're probably the two smartest of all the candidates. You can see Kucinich's intelligence from the plans he's put together and the detail of them. With Clark, if you examine each time he answers, you'll find his answers always address the underlying strategic structure. He's applying his military strategist's training to domestic policy, and it shows. His analysis and solutions are brilliant because of it. They probably know the most about PNAC, and oppose it.

And Clark has the best chance of shifting the nation leftward, by creating a landslide. I think many of the candidates can beat Bush, not just Clark. But Clark can win in a LANDSLIDE, with enough coat-tails to win not just the whitehouse but the state legislatures, house, and senate. It wouldn't help much if we win the whitehouse but only control the legislatures by a thin margin, or not at all even. Having firm majorities is our best way of shifting the legislative agenda leftwards. This is CRUCIAL because more than one Supreme Court Justice is likely to retire soon -- Rehquist and O'Connor are almost certain retirees. And the implications for Roe v. Wade, affirmative action, etc are enormous. We can't afford to have only slim majorities because any liberal Justice nominees would be filibustered, and we'd have to compromise for a more conservative one.

We're all in this together. And to empower Nancy Pelosi and Dashle, Clark is the best choice. It's a cascade effect. So even if you don't trust Clark, surely you'd trust Charlie Rangel and all the others who will be empowered and able to set liberal legislative agendas as a result of the coat-tails that Clark spreads, and the seats that they'll bring to get a majority. And of all the Candidates, I don't think anyone doubts that Clark has what it takes to win and spread ENORMOUS coat-tails doing it.

And Clark is not a career politician who uses polltested answers and soundbytes. His answers are honest, thoughtful, and genuine. The proof is that when you examine them, they all bear the imprint of a strategic analysis mind. Take the TPM interview, he could have said he was pro-education and be done with it, having satisfied the teacher's union. But he goes on, in great detail, explaining why it's wrong, the basic logic of it, mixing economic logic with humanistic fundamental principles. He preforms this same type of strategic analysis of all the problems. This man is every bit as smart as Kucinich.

And he's a humble and decent man. For instance, when he rescued those people from a burning jeep, he never even mentioned it in his book to make himself look good. He glossed over that part, instead of bragging as most soldiers will do of their heroic stories. It was only later, when someone who was present at the burning jeep where Clark risked his life to rapelled down a cliff and save people said something, that it came out.

Finally, his policies are pro-choice, pro-environment, etc -- all liberal positions. Even more liberal than many others like Dean.

I think the best advertisement for Clark is Clark himself. Don't take my word for it. Don't listen to the Clark promoters or the Clark detractors. Judge from first hand experience instead of thirdhand accounts and editorials that spin out of context quotes and partial information.

Check these two links out and then see how you feel:
NH Townhall meeting
http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/idrive/project/c04/c04092603_clark.rm
TPM interview
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/oct0301.html#1001031244pm

[MuseRider]

15. Thank you

you are very courteous. It is nice to disagree and not yell and fight. I like Clark but I don't quite trust him yet. I will vote for him if he gets the nomination. I do trust DK. He means what he says and does as he says he will do. He is thoughtful when making policy. I do not agree with everything he does and says but I trust him and for me that is one BIG point. I do like Clark for many reasons but for me to trust him I think I will need to watch him for a while.

[RandomUser]

18. Take as much time as you need

That's the point of a primary process, and you are well within your rights to reserve judgment until you see more.

I kind of feel about Clark the way you do about Kucinich. If there's any particular issue about Clark that causes reservations for you, MuseRider, please feel free to raise them, and I'll try my best to address it. I'm willing to take the time with you because you seem civil and willing to keep an openmind. I'd rather not waste my time with the rabid anti-clarkers who have already made up their minds and won't listen to any alternative points of view, or sensible refutations of their arguments. If you have any honest reservations that you feel have not yet been addressed, please feel free to raise them with me.

[dpbrown]

17. You do a nice job for Clark

I suggest posting this or some version of it in Politics for discussion. It's buried down in this thread where few people will read it.

[RandomUser]

19. Thank you

I've half a mind to do that, but I'm not sure I'd want to deal with the resulting mess. It seems now that outright flamefests topics have been banned, the rabid anti-clarkers (as opposed to the civil ones who have sincere reservations and objections to Clark) have taken it upon themselves to disrupt any pro-clark threads. You can't start a pro-clark thread without one of a handful of rabid anti-clarkers checking in to derail it within the first ten replies.

But if any clark supporters wish to take my post and convert it, please feel free to.

I have no problem with people having objections to Clark, so long as they're willing to be civil and stay openminded, just as I attempt to stay openminded with other candidates. But oftentimes, the rabid anticlarkers (the same handful of around ten people) will repeat the same objections even after the issue has been answered in a reasonable way. The answers to those objections have already been made, but lost in the barrage of new threads. This was the reason many of us pro-clarkers have stopped answering objections, because it seemed useless. We would counter an argument, only to have it lost in a gazillion new threads that repeated a debunked argument, almost as if we hadn't answered.

It seemed to be a concerted strategy of spamming the boards, instead of debating the issues, and I think that lead to the need for the new rules. In one thread, someone replied and said that was the same strategy used against Kerry before Clark announced -- spamming and drowning out answers in sheer threads.

For instance, the clark praising republican threads were repeated over and over for days in a gazillion new threads even when it was answered and the argument debunked, becausethe answer was lost in one of those gazillion threads.

So I'm reluctant to create such a post knowing they wouldn't listen anyway, and would only attempt to drown it out by sheer post number instead of discussing things. But if you have any honest objections, please feel free to raise them, and I'll try my best to answer them.

Of course, any pro-clarkers who wish to take my post, modify it, and make a new thread out of it are welcome to.

[dpbrown]

23. It's always the same kind of people

Same with Kucinich. I've posted a couple of threads that ended up going more than a hundred posts, and there are always the mean people who just want to start a fight who pile on.

Anyway, you present your candidate in a rational and understandable way, and I appreciate it.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[LWolf]

24. Hi, Randomuser!

I have objections to Clark, and have expressed them, but don't need to flame or hijack a pro Clark thread to prove my point. That doesn't really prove any points about Clark does it? Just about me. I appreciate being able to talk about objections, concerns, etc. in a civil discussion with Clark supporters. It gives me more to ponder and digest than a flame fest ever will. You go ahead and start your pro Clark thread; I'll come aboard and have a real conversation with you. :hi:

[RandomUser]

25. Tell you what...

If you'd like, you can start a thread asking for Clark supporters. Make it clear you're interested in a civil discussion without flames. Say that you've got some objections to Clark but are interested (even if not really interested, at least this might stop the immediate defensiveness some of us have built up in response to the spam and flame tactics of the rabid anti-clarkers). Ask for refutations to your particular objections to help you decide your position on Clark. Make it clear you're asking for info, and not trying to smear Clark. As long as you keep an openmind and stay civil, I think you'll find a lot of answers to your objections.

I'm not the most ardent or well-versed Clark supporter, but I might drop in :) Perhaps such a thread that seems less obviously pro-clark may not draw the rabid anti-clarkers as quickly. Though I doubt it (I bet they show up within ten replies :)).

And once again, good luck with Kucinich.

[RandomUser]

26. example

Here's someone who took this route

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=474462&mesg_id=474462&page=

And he seems to have gotten the answers he needed to his objections

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=474462&mesg_id=474492&page=

[incapsulated]

16. I don't tell anyone how to vote, but...

You are obviously under the impression that those of us that support Clark are a bunch of rightwingers or something. Read his interviews. What he opinions are on the issues. They are far more liberal than most people think.

No, I can't imagine a Kucinich supporter making Clark his second choice. However, I could wholeheartedly throw my support behind either man, without any compromise to my core beliefs.

[RandomUser]

20. This is a good point

There's a misconception that most Clark supporters are "rightwingers or something." This is not true. If Clark dropped out, I would not suddenly shift my support to Lieberman. Most of Clark's supporters are liberals. But we span the entire spectrum, because Clark attracts a broad base of support of people with many diverse political leanings.

[diamondsoul]

28. Why not?

I'm one who did briefly make Clark my second choice behind Kucinich. It got interesting for a bit there, and I still defend Clark as a good candidate, however he's shown a few weaknesses that have me reconsidering how well he'd handle the Presidency.

I've repeatedly said Clark espouses views just slightly more conservative than Kucinich's, and most of the time I get the same reaction you did.*LOL* Ah well, I'll continue to defend both men, and who knows, maybe with time Kucinich's opinion of General Clark will improve.

[JohnKleeb]

22. aye I know

[Desertrose]

27. Just like Kucinich...its heart AND head...

thats what I love about this man....he combines both and it shows.

He cares about people...and yet he is able to come up with solutions that are viable.

An idealist-yes...and thank god for that. We need some higher ideals and vision...we need to remember how to dream a world of peace...a world without war...a place where people care about each other ...not just in this country but the world...we need to remember what its like not tolive in fear. Dennis brings that...we need it more than we realize.

I don't see any other candidate have that combination in truth. They can talk the talk but how many have...are...walking the walk....??

...heart or head? with Dennis I have both.....

Peace
DR