Why I support Howard Dean

[dsc]

We have 9 good and decent people running for President on the Democratic side. If Clark joins in we will have 10. If Gore does we will have 11. Every single one would make a better President than Bush. Every single one would do good and wonderful things for the American people if they were to get to the White House. They have already done good and wonderful things for either their jurisdictions or the American people in their public lives. Yet I support Dean. Here is why.

First, and foremost, we must win this time. We can't afford 4 more minutes let alone 4 more years of a Bush Presidency. He has wrecked the economy. He has wrecked the budget. He has wrecked Social Security and Medicare. For the first time since Herbert Hoover we will have a President who hasn't created a job in an entire term of office. Not only that he has made us terra non grata through out the world. America is less popular now than in the lifetime of any American citizen. Instead of being the envy of the world we are the hated of the world. We must win. Our votes belong not just to us but to our children and grandchild. Not just to us but to our out of work neighbors and our homeless countrymen. Not just to us but to the children whose schools are lying of teachers, who parents are out of work, and whose medical insurance doesn't exist. We must win.

For that reason I can't support Mosley Braun, Kucinich, or Sharpton. None of them can possibly win. Mosley Braun has too much baggage. Kucinich splits our party on abortion. Sharpton has no experience and can't even win a primary in NYC. They are good people. I voted for and worked for CMB and Kucinich at times in the past. Sharpton has been impressive in the debates. But none of them can be elected. And we must win.

I also have to eliminate Lieberman for much the same reason. He so turns off our base, and is so uncharismatic I can't see him beating Bush either. In addition, on a host of issues he plays into the Bush rhetoric and cuts us off at the knees. And we must win.

That leaves Kerry, Gephardt, Graham, Edwards and Dean. Given the circumstances that are likely to exist in 2004 any of these five can win given a well run campaign. They are all capable of running that campaign. So why do I favor Dean over them?

First, Dean has our best message. He can compare Vermont to America and any fool would take Vermont. Dean turned deficits into surplusses. Dean turned recession into recovery. Dean turn unemployment into employment. Dean turn a state with one of the worst bond rating in the country into a state with one of the best. Under his stewardship his state went from a fiscal mess to a fiscal model. Other than possibly Graham, no other candidate can say this. No other candidate has such unmitiagatedly successful economic stewardship of a state. He can ask the country if they are better off than they were four years ago and produce literally thousands of Vermonters who were better off in 2003 than they were in 1991. That message will win and we must win.

Second, Dean showed courage to sign the civil unions bill in the face of not only political but violent opposition. I know certain DUers will tell you gay rights grow on trees. That leadership didn't matter. That the Supreme Court made him do it. Or a thousand other non sensical and often contradictory lies. But let me say both loud and clear. Dean was indispensible to that law passing and that is a fact. Two states had virtually identical supreme court decisions (Alaska and Hawaii) and both changed the constitution rather than honor that decision. Both had Democratic governors at the time and one is probably the most Democratic state in the nation that isn't in the South. Yet both states changed their constitutions (in HI's case it was the very first time ever). And, yes Vermont's could have been changed as well. I have posted how on three occasions. Dean did the right thing by twisting arms to pass that bill. He did the right thing by signing that bill. And he did the right thing by campaigning on having signed it. He was the right man, in the right place, at the right time and every person (not just gay and lesbians) live better today thanks to that act. Thanks to that act a gay or lesbian born today is more likelty to live a life with the full measure of citizenship than one born when I was. This shows me he can and will courageous in his governence. He didn't let me down then and won't let me down in the White House.

Third he opposed the war and for the right reasons. He can carry both the message that this war is wrong and that the war on terrorism is right. That this is the wrong war at the wrong time for the wrong reason. He has been consistent in his opposition and it is paying off handsomely. America will grow tired of losing its soldiers, sailors and marines to this botched effort at finishing Bush's dads work. Dean can and will make the case that we need to win the war no terror and not lose it in an attempt to pacify Iraq.

Fourth, His campaign has been brilliantly run and has exceeded all expectations. He started this race as a small state's governor that only gays and lesbians had heard of. He had no national connections of any import. He was in close to last in every poll out there. In just over a year he has raised more money than everyone save Kerry over all and everyone in the 2nd quarter. He has more donors than anyone. He is now tied for first both nationally and in Iowa, New Hampshire, and California. He is on the cover of both Time and Newsweek. He has gone further in less time than any candidate I have ever seen or heard of.

Fifth, He has the right tone to take to Bush. We can not lie down and play dead with this man. We can not assume he is some dumb ass who will lose the race for us. We need to be agressive and in his face. Every lie needs to be taken down. Every mistep needs to be pointed out. Bush is wrong on virtually everything and we need to let the people know that.

Sixth, His gun stance can win us voters we can't win otherwise and at little to no public policy cost. We still don't have all the federal laws that Dean favors and are very unlikely to get them soon. We will be exceedingly lucky to get what Dean favors. So why not run a candidate who can get us some votes then? This alone could give us WV, TN, NH, and AK all of which Gore lost narrowly. It also will help us keep MI, PA, and WI all of which Gore won narrowly.

I am a firm anybody but Bush partisan. I will vote, work for, give money to, and pray to elect whomever we nominate. But it is my firm belief that Dean is the right man, with the right message, the right values, the right skills, for this country at this time. He can win. He will win. We must win.

[newsguyatl]

1. B-I-N-G-O

you nailed it on all points!

thanks for the awesome post...



(though i differ from you on that last part that you will vote for anyone who wins... under NO circumstances will i vote for lieberman)

[caledesi]

2. Excellent post. These are many of the reasons I support Dean.

[tsipple]

3. About that Kerry fundraising...

A couple points. (And, yes, I'm going to annoy Kerry supporters. Apologies in advance. For the record, I like John Kerry very much, and he would make an awesome president.)

First, Kerry did transfer a couple million from his Senate account, raised over many years. Dean didn't have this luxury. There's a fair argument to be made that "presidential fundraising" should exclude the $2M.

Second, Dean has already qualified for federal matching funds and will receive the most because of the nature of his donations: heavier in the $250 and under category. (These individuals haven't maxed out yet either.)

Third, the growth curve. Everybody's pretty sure Dean will widen the gap financially in the next quarter, but the question is by how much.

[Nicholas_J]

4. Why I don't support Howard Dean...

He is the wrong man with a semi-wrong message.

He has not told the truth on a continuous basis about other candidates who have vigourously fought Bush and all of Bush's agenda into office.


Bitter Pill: Howard Dean and the tempting of the Democrats.

by Jonathan Chait, the New Republic, July 28, 2003

It’s a bit odd to begin an article about Dean, written supposedly from a Democrat’s perspective, by quoting the right wing media. Why should we given any credence to what they say about anything? These are, after all, the people who still claim that the U.S. is going to find weapons in Iraq, who believe that defunding the federal government via massive tax cuts for the rich is good for the economy, and who say with a straight face that Bush is a man of integrity and intelligence.




The glee Dean inspires among Republicans is exceeded only by that of his supporters. He has attracted a cultlike following, similar to that of John McCain or Ross Perot, although it is largely confined to liberals. Dean is soaring mainly because he has tapped into the intense anger Democrats feel toward Bush. But, in this case, anger has gotten the better of reason. Democrats' justified desperation to unseat Bush may, paradoxically, render them less able to do so. The trouble is not Dean himself (he is a decent man) nor even necessarily how he might govern (more responsibly than some would think). It's that he has come to represent a political delusion: that on every issue Democrats have a moral and strategic obligation to oppose Bush diametrically. This delusion could enfeeble the Democratic Party in 2004, whether or not it makes Dean its nominee.


The heart of Dean's appeal is his audacious claim that he, alone, has the guts to criticize Bush. "I think that, for too long, Democrats have been afraid to take on the president," he told National Public Radio in March. "The only hope Democrats have to beat this president," he told a Los Angeles rally earlier this month, "is to behave like Democrats and stand up for what we believe." Liberals not only find this talk cathartic, they believe it holds the key to victory. As actor Alec Baldwin told a Newsweek reporter, "I want to know who's the person who's going to take it to Bush. We've got to get rid of this guy."


The fallacy underlying Dean's argument is that Democrats in Washington have gone along with Bush's policies rather than resist them. "We are not going to beat George Bush by voting with the president eighty-five percent of the time," he likes to say. Dean seems to be implying that his opponents supported Bush that often, but actually Kerry, Edwards, and Lieberman all had presidential support rates in the sixties and seventies. And even that dramatically overstates their agreement, since many of those votes--say, election reform or defense reauthorization--were, properly, uncontroversial. Most congressional Democrats have held fast in opposition to Bush's conservative agenda. On post-Enron reforms, the patients' bill of rights, campaign finance reform, homeland security spending, judicial nominations, oil-drilling in Alaska, and other issues, they have formed a fairly unified bloc. Most of the time, though, Republicans have rolled right over Democratic opposition. That's the way things tend to go when one party controls the presidency and both houses of Congress.

More here:

http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/~gabriel/dean2004blog/Anti_Dean_TNR_July_28_2003.htm

How many times does a man have to be caught in untruths , attacking a party that defended him and protected him, when HE was being attacked by the radical-right Take Back Vermont Movement for signing the Civil Unions' Act? The following is from Michael Badamo, one of the foremost leaders of Vermont's Progressive Party who actively fought for Gay Rights and civil unions for eight years prior to the Supreme Court Decision. Dean waited for a legal judgement to sign it. Other states created amendments to PREVENT civil unions, Dean had it within his power to support liberal Dems and Progressives, to ask them to place an equal-rights-for-gays amendment before the legislature. He did not do so.

*Howard Dean:

Howard Dean is clearly the runt of this litter. Dean is shallow, glib, mean spirited and overly ambitious yet Vermonters continue to reward him with term after term. On issues that matter, Dean is regressive and responsive only to the needs of elite vested interests. Taking his lead from the new generation of grossly hypocritical, Bill Clinton type Democrats, Dean mouths the ancient words of Democratic Party idealism but then repudiates labor and the poor confidant that they have no where else to go. Big money motivates Howard Dean, a spoiled brat rich kid from Long Island who always gets his own way.

Dean has never had serious opposition in any election campaign. He slid into the Lieutenant Governor's office and took over the top job when Snelling died. He has won easily since because Republicans like to vote for him while their own Party candidates have been either little known or hopelessly right wing.

Of our six modern governors over the last thirty five years, Deane Davis gets my vote for number one, definitely a good guy. I'll rank Phil Hoff a not too shabby number two because Vermont really needed a good kick in the ass. From there, they go down fast. Dick Snelling gets a grudging number three because he represented stability and administrative competence. We'll give Madeline Kunin number four simply because she was less of a snake oil salesman than Tom Salmon, our choice for number five. Howard Dean, of course, is the worst in modern memory.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to plot the trend.

http://www.sover.net/~auc/6govs.htm

As for Vermont's economy under Dean, this says it all:

Vermont at a Glance

Many families in Vermont saw moderate improvements in their standard of living over the 1990s as the wages of median-wage workers grew. However, low-wage workers saw their wages decline over the 1990s, and median income stagnated. The poverty rate and income inequality in Vermont grew over the 1990s (see link below for table).

Median family income for four-person families
Middle-income families in Vermont have not fared particularly well during the current economic expansion. The incomes of families in the middle of the income distribution stagnated over the 1990s. Median family income for four-person families was $53,691 in 1998, compared to its 1989 level of $53,103 (in 1998 dollars).

Income inequality
Income inequality in Vermont grew over the 1990s. In the late 1990s, the income of the wealthiest 20% of families was 8.4 times that of the poorest 20% of families. By comparison, in the late 1980s, the wealthiest 20% of families had 7.4 times the income of the poorest 20%.

Poverty rate
The poverty rate in Vermont grew during the 1990s, from 8.1% in 1987-88 to 9.6% in 1997-98. However, the poverty rate in Vermont in the late 1990s remained below the national rate (13.0% in 1997-98).

Wages
In Vermont in the 1990s, the wages of low-wage workers declined, while the wages of similar workers grew at the national level. In 1999, the inflation-adjusted hourly wages of low-wage workers (workers at the 20th percentile) were 0.4% lower than they were in 1989, but due to wage gains in the 1980s they remained 10.5% higher than they were in 1979. The wages of workers in the middle of the wage distribution grew over both the 1980s and 1990s. The inflation-adjusted median wage (the wage of workers in the middle) in 1999 was 12.2% higher than it was in 1979.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/datazone_states_usmap_vt

[dsc]

5. I want to see Kerry's bill granting civil unions

right now. Find the link. If you can't you are a hypocrite to support him.

[Nicholas_J]

14. He aint a state elected executive officer.

ANd so has never been in a posiition to have the power to do so.

Sorry DSC, but all the Dean supporters on DU ever do is present their personal opinion about Dean, and provided absolutely NO evidence to counter or explain Deans reticence about acting on Civil Unions or anything.
He was the leader of Vermton. It was his place to place HIS platform before the party that he led, and lay out his plan for legislation in the state he was elected to Govern.

Kerry has wither written or sponsored tweleve different pieces of federal legislation designed to protect gay rates including the hate crimes act, and he led the investigation to nail people in the military who were actively loking for gays in opposition to Clintons dont ask dont tell policies. Sorry, when it comes to legislation protecting gays, Kerry is far ahead of Dean in demanding that laws be written, writing them, and trying to push them through congress.

It was Deans job as governor to do this as well. Did he?

It is the obigation of the elected executive officer to ask his party to write and place forth legialtion that falls within the scope of the government that they have been given power over. Same thing with legislators.

Dean had authority over Marraige Laws. That is a staes right issue. Sorry, but Dean did nothing, initiated nothing. It is typical of Dean supporters to try to try to comparte apples and oranges.

Dena was essentially, the "PRESIDENT:" of Vermont. He decides the issues and agendas of imposrtance during the terms to which he is elected. AS Bush asked for legislation for drilling in ANWR, and For laws making partial birth abortion, It was in Deans power as the head of a state to address marriage laws. That is oustise of federal jurisdiction.


for a very long time:

Kerry has a very strong record on voting pro-gay in the Senate. The Defense of Marriage bill, which was passed by the Clinton administration, was voted NO by Kerry, one of only a handful of dissenters. He also voted to include anti-gay crimes as hate crimes, and voted in the 80s to include gays in the military without obstruction, and this was before the gay issue was a hot topic. Also, he voted to end anti-gay discrimination in the workplace. I hope Dean's not placing his belief on the mere fact that Kerry voted for the Patriot Act, because it's really tiring having to argue that one.

Sorry. Kerry has purposefully set out to do more for gays and set his career on the line doing so many times. Far more than Dean.

And ths issue of a amendment to the Vermont Constitution was well dealt with by the wording by the Vermont Supreme Court, The other states supreeme courts that did create amamendments did so becasue the rulings of the Supreme Courts of those states left out a word in thie ruling.

The Vermont Supreme Court states that it was constitutional for gays to be given the same rights as straight regarding ALL civil laws in Vermont. Stated it was unconstitutional to deny those rights. By writing their judgement and opinions in this way, they were telling the legilature that any amendment to change this ruling would be unconstitutional, which is why you saw no attempt to amend the Vermont Constitution and why you still see nop one trying to do so.

The Supreme Court prevented them from doing so. Once a right is granted constitutionally, it can only be expanded, not reversed.



2002 On the votes that the Human Rights Campaign considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2002 Bsed on legislative votes, sponsorship of legislation not voted upon, and endorsements of special "dear colleague" letters that the Arab American Institute considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Kerry supported their preferred position 75 percent of the time.

2002 On the votes that the National Hispanic Leadership Agenda considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 82 percent of the time.

2001-2002 On the votes that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001-2002 On the votes that the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001 On the votes that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001 On the votes that the Human Rights Campaign considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001 On the votes that the National Hispanic Leadership Agenda considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 82 percent of the time.

2000 On the votes that the National Hispanic Leadership Agenda considered to be the most important in 2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2000 On the votes that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People considered to be the most important in 2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 93 percent of the time.

1999-2000 On the votes that the Human Rights Campaign considered to be the most important in 1999-2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

1999-2000 On the votes that the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights considered to be the most important in 1999-2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 94 percent of the time.
If this were school Kerry would have like a B+ or A average. His worst percentage was 75% that is better than what most republicans get, so Kerry can defend his record easily. This really is what turns me off about Dean really, I am not even a Kerry supporter but Kerry was one of the first to bring attention to gay rights I've been told, those are good grades people

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103#Civil+Rights

Kerry's records on civil right and gay right blows Deans ONE decision away. And Dean did not aske for gay rights legislation EVER.

Sorry, I beleive that gays shoould be treated by aprathjeid like separate laws, but must have the exact same rights that I as a straight person have in every way, under every circumstance. AND NOW.
NO Half measures.

I spent much of my career as a librarian, and have taken a fais share of getting myself beaten bloody when seeing one of my co-workers being gay bashed when trying to get to their carts to go home at night, and running to help out.

I have hadcto help gay friends put their livews togetther when they have been burned out of their houses by neighbors who didnt want gays next doors in areas that were being "gentriied"

AS a matter of fact, because of my profession, I have often had females tell me that other people have told them that I am gay. These women seemed concerned that I was not particularly offended by the label. Am not, never have been. Consider myself in good company. But I dont like half assed solutions like Deans. And I dont like his statements about being as uncomfortable with gay marriage as anyone else. I am part of anyone else and I am not bothered by it.

So far the best answer I have head is Kerry's who said he beleived that marriage was something between men and women, but if legislation wass introduced to make marriage legal for gays, he would sign it into law.
But he stated that he did not beleive the political will was there for it.


Dean did precious little regarding civil rights, and gay right of his own volition while governor. Again, it was even more within his power at the state level that it is in Kerry's power at the federal.

Now come on, show me the vast amount of Dean inspered and Dean requested and Dean backed legislstion that matches Kerry's.

Agin, DSC and all of the other Dean supporters can only come up with opinions about Dean, based on what he states, but cannot come up with one but of legislation that proves what he has DONE. That he has led fights in.

Instead, when asked about what Dean did of his own volition they cannot come up with ANYTHING, and then aske what other candidates have done. Well if that is the only response you can come up with, and Dean has done NO MORE than others, and less than others in many cases. then he is less deserving, not more deserving of support.

AND since Kerry has done FAR more to defend gay rights, it is Kerry who gays should support, not Dean.

[dsc]

17. You are being baldly dishonest.

I have supplied this link (which details Dean's record on gay rights) not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, but five times (this will be the sixth). On each of the previous occasions, save one, it was in direct response to a post by you and you responded to it. The other time was in a stand alone thread and yes, you responded to it too. You are being baldly, utterly, totally, and completely dishonest when you say that Dean supporters haven't supplied this. You either do not read posts to which you respond, forget posts to which you respond, or are being deliberately dishonest about posts to which you respond.

HERE IS THE LINK FOR THE FINAL TIME

www.mountainpridemedia.org/jun2000/news06_dean%20.htm

And here, yet again, is not Dean's opinion of Dean's record on gay rights. Not my opinion of Dean's record on gay rights. But a factual statement by the LGBT paper of record in Vermont of Dean's record on gay rights.

"As Governor, Dean has historically sided with Vermont's gay and lesbian community. He is credited with helping pass, and ultimately signing into law, legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He also supported the extension of benefits to the domestic partners of Vermont State employees. In 1994, Dean appointed Bill Lippert, an openly gay man, to fill a vacant seat in the House of Representatives. As a result of the state's new civil union law, national gay newsmagazine The Advocate recently dubbed him the "Dean of unions."

So yet again here is Dean's record. In 1992 he "helped pass and ultimately signed into law, legislation prohibiting discrimination" that would be at least the equivalent or better of Kerry's sponsership of ENDA.

In 1994 "he appointed . . . an openly gay man" to the Vermont House. He also "supported the extension of benefits to Domestic Partners of Vermont State Employees". In short he did every thing Kerry did and you are baldly, utterly, dishonest when you say otherwise.

[dsc]

19. and of course

no response by Nick the (word removed due to it being forbidden)

[Nicholas_J]

23. Yup, same thing I posted

Where Dean treisa to scare Gays out of voting for the candidate they usually supported, Anthony Pollina, and the Progressive Party, because it was not the Republicans Dean feared, but the liberal democrats and progressives: From the article you just posted:


There are a number of Democrats and a number of Catholics who I have lost the support of, and I need to get that support back. The biggest problem for me (in November) is (Progressive) Anthony (Pollina). Anthony is going to take votes away from me and he’s not going to take any votes away from (Republican) Ruth (Dwyer). So actually the better he does, the more likely it is that Ruth Dwyer is going to be Governor.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jun2000/news06_dean%20.htm

Now lets try for another view:

Vote your hopes, not your fears
by Alexander Cockburn
The Nation magazine, October 30, 2000

Pollina and the Progressives have taken the | Democrats' scare strategy straight on. They say, Vote | Your Hopes, Not Your Fears. The campaign is rich I with proposals on healthcare, environmental protection, a living wage, stability for small farmers and small businesses. Pollina has plenty of ammunition against Dean, who has been running Vermont longer than Clinton/Gore have been in the White House. It's the pathetic national story. In Vermont, 95 percent of men under 22 in prison do not have high school equivalency. In the past ten years prison spending has increased by 135 percent, while spending on state colleges has increased by 7 percent. One of every seven Vermont men between 18 and 21 is under the supervision of the Corrections Department.
And Pollina doesn't shrink from reminding voters that at the very moment in the early nineties when Vermont was poised to become the first state to have universal healthcare, Governor Dean, a physician by trade, killed off all such hopes, as he did a bill this year that would have established prescription-drug price controls.
Democrats of the stripe of Dean and Gore know how to talk the talk. They don't move a finger to expand human freedoms or opportunities, then boast that they alone are the bulwark against right-wing attacks on such freedoms and opportunities. After undermining choice and gay rights for much of his Congressional career, Gore now tells women and gays that he is the prime defender of choice and gay rights. At a gay event in Los Angeles, Dean claimed the hero's mantle for signing Vermont's civil union law giving gay couples the same state benefits as married couples. But he was never out front on this issue, moved only under direct order of the courts and then, in an act of consummate cowardice, nervously scribbled his signature to the law secluded from press or camera. So what does our Vermont parable add up to? Independent in name only, Sanders sold out to the Democratic machine long ago. He's no longer part of a movement. He's not a member of the Progressive Party and has not endorsed Pollina. In his reelection race for November, he's outflanked on both politics and gender, facing a Democrat to his left (Peter Diamondstone) and a transsexual moderate Republican (Karen Kerin). But the big story is not Sanders' dismal trajectory; it is that third-party politics in Vermont has moved out of his sad shadow and is changing the face of the state. The Progressives have also endorsed Nader.


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political_Reform/VoteHopes_NotFears.html

[Duder]

24. Survey: Dean leads among gay voters

According to a survey released this week by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean is the favorite of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered voters. Among those planning to vote in the Democratic primary, 32% said they back the former Vermont governor. Sen. John Kerry came in second with 10%, and the rest of the candidates were in the single digits. "I am proud that the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender community has embraced my candidacy," Dean said in a prepared statement. "I am committed to ensuring full equality for every American."

Openly gay, lesbian, and bisexual voters make up 5% of the vote in national elections and 10% of the vote in the Democratic primary, according to the Voter News Service. "Clearly, Governor Dean's record of leadership on civil unions in Vermont and his willingness to speak about equal rights for gay people to all audiences is resonating in our community," said Matt Foreman, NGLTF executive director. In the NGLTF survey, 1,471 people were questioned at three gay pride parades in New York City, Los Angeles, and Washington, D.C., in June.

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=9532&sd=08/08/03

[dsc]

28. That isn't what you wrote

You wrote that he did nothing for gays in Vermont. Not nothing on that one issue.

[lastliberalintexas]

27. So where's the bill he introduced in Congress?

I'm sorry, but that's nothing but a copout to say that he wasn't a CEO of a state and therefore has no gay marriage bill. Has he introduced one in Congress? And why not?

Kerry's a fine man. Now go out and freaking support him rather than bash one of our Dems.

Will you vote for Dean, Nick, if he's the nominee? Just curious, b/c you seem to pop up every time there is something positive said about the man to throw out the same old tired repub talking points. So are you a Dem, or merely a Kerry supporter?


And yes, I will support Kerry if he gets the nom, just so you know.

[MercutioATC]

6. Why Dean benefits from the "feed the trolls" campaign...

Posts like this. Another dollar for Dean.

Explanation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9385&mesg_id=9385

..I guess this is my way of taking lemons and making lemonade...

[RevolutionStartsNow]

8. Sounds more like

sour grapes than lemons.

[MercutioATC]

9. Agreed, but there's no good analogy using sour grapes...

:eyes:

[Syrinx]

7. Hear yea! Hear yea!

(sp?) :)

[jiacinto]

10. Dean needs to be better on TV

I saw him on Inside Politics and on Larry King and he was not handling the questions well. If he cannot handle himself better in the media I worry about his ability to beat Bush.

I still am a Dean supporter, but do think his media skills need to improve.

[dorktv]

32. His skills are improving...I saw him live in May and July and there

was a big difference.

[George_Bonanza]

11. Nicely said, excellent

However, b/c you asked for the non-existent and impossible (b/c he's just a senator) civil union bill that Kerry made, I want to defend him, just in case you were insinuating that Kerry's not as stand-up as Dean.

Dean DID show determination in signing the civil unions bill. I don't doubt that. Kerry showed determination in exposing Iran-Contra. And the Bank of Commerce and Credit International. And in opposing the popular, Clinton-approved Defense of Marriage bill. And in protesting the Vietnam War, and in serving in it. And in Kerry's rep for being one of the the most outspoken pro-environment congressman. None of these were easy cakewalks. Taking on government conspiracies like Iran-Contra requires vision, grit, and will.

[dsc]

12. I should have used sponsered

I meant show me the civil unions bill Kerry sponsered.

[MercutioATC]

13. I agree, George...

The single best idea I've heard about helping the people who need it most has come from Kerry:

Exempting the first $10k of everybody's earnings from FICA withholding.

That would make a huge difference to the working poor. I may be supporting Dean, but I'm not denying that Kerry has some great ideas.


(on edit)

I find it interesting that certain Kerry supporters here have chosen to attack certain other candidates and leave it to a Dean supporter to make an issue of Kerry's position on this...

[George_Bonanza]

18. Thanks

I was not aware of that. All that financial and tax jumble is too complicated for my young mind.

[diamondsoul]

15. Ok that's a great post now would you do me a favor?

Tell him to stop talking like he's a guaranteed winner and looking like he's leering at some poor woman at the same time? :P I'm half joking. I feel so petty, but honestly it's his demeanor that just turns me off him for the most part. I can support him easily if he's the nominee, I just don't seem to care much for his personality in general.

[MercutioATC]

16. I understand, but doesn't Kucinich say "WHEN I'm President"

instead of "IF I'm President"?

My point is that they all do it...

[Kanola]

20. An idea.. everytime someone bashes a Dean thread lets give him more money

I am soooooo tired of these bashers coming in on pro Howard Dean threads. Lets give some more money to the Dean campaign for every negative post on a pro Dean thread.

BTW. Dean bashers. I have seen many pro Kerry, Kucinich threads but do not disrupt them. I just may read them and move on. I do not want to attack and undercut other candidates that other DU'ers are supporting.

[MercutioATC]

21. Check this thread out, Kanola:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9385&mesg_id=9385

Actually, this should be done for all candidates. It's also important to post that you're making a donation and why. Hopefully, it'll encourage people to think before they post.

[Larkspur]

22. Yep, I agree with you

Howard Dean has sound judgment and political courage and has demonstrated that long before he ran for President. That is what initially attracted me to him. Dean's a lot like Harry Truman and we're going to need our modern "Truman" to bail this country out of the mess that Bush the Deceiver has put us in.

Every since I committed to Dean in April 2003, I've just gotten more impressed with him and his campaign. Unlike the other candidates, Dean realizes that the Democratic Party has been dying and an opposition party can't exists when it fails to attract new members and alienates existing and former members.

Thomas Jefferson said that every generation needs a new revolution, and Howard Dean is leading our generation's long overdue revolution back to sanity and prosperity.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

25. One thing:

You said that Dean could give us AK. I think that you mean AR - Gore lost AK by like 30 percentage points

[DrFunkenstein]

26. It Is Posts Like These That Make Supporting Dean Seem Worthwhile

You've done tremendous justice to Dean, dsc. My only real question is about the 6th point. It seems to me that Dean actually supports a good deal of positions that the NRA vocally hates. The NRA rating might help him seem more grounded during the primaries, but it won't do much good in the general election. I expect the NRA to vigorously endorse Bush (big surprise).

[dsc]

29. I have no doubt that the NRA

will endorse Bush but many gun owners do follow the issue and will vote for Dean due to him meeting a minimum standard.

[ryharrin]

30. I agree. What we'll are moderate gun owners who

are normally scared "we'll take their guns away," but agree with other Dem ideas.

[ryharrin]

31. Thanks for the great post, I might have to keep it for future reference

for when people say that all of Dean's support is based on his anti-war stance.