Who I am, why I'm here, stuff I hate, etc.:

[renegade2011]

1. I'm basically an ex-"Right-winger". Born in 1973, in an area that is basically your typical decaying, Rust-belt area. My home town is essentially Mayberry/Hooterville with a college, so it's not entirely unexpected that I'd grow up surrounded by/marinating in Right-wing bullshit.

I originally come from "Pennsylvania Dutch Country" (thankfully my wife and I no longer live there), and some of my best friends during my High School years were Mennonites. I guess you could say that I served as theri "gateway" to the Non-Mennonite world (I used to be into Role-Playing games, for one, and my family wasn't particularly religious).
So that puts me in the rather interesting position of being well aquainted with the Mennonite/Evangelical/Fundamentalist sub-culture, without having actually been a committed "member" of said subculture.

My family life is fairly typical of the time-period and area, I guess. My mom worked at the same factory where my Grandmother had worked, and my Dad (when he was actually employed or even around) tended to be a security guard at any of a number of different places around the area. Unfortunately for us, Dad was fairly consistently unemployed, both due to the fact that he'd sustained several damaged vertebrae during an accident at one of his jobs (I never really figured out the details, and honestly don't care), and the fact that he was mostly not around, because he tended to hang out at whichever local bar didn't have him banned at any particular point, and bang random women he scrounged up.
(Mom didn't know this, of course -- or at least if she did, she was able to lie to herself about it enough that we could maintain the superficial facade of a "happy suburban home".) (*sigh*)

Well, long story short, Mom and Dad broke up when I was 15 or so, which took us from lower middle-class, to "barely even surviving". Dad (useless prick that he was -- and most likely still is) fairly routinely failed to send the support payments he supposedly owed Mom, so she ended up working double shifts fairly routinely. As a result, I never really saw much of her for weeks on end (when she wasn't out working, she was home watching Oprah, or out somewhere rather desperately trying to meet a guy, which never worked out very well, due to her tendency to choose the same basic asshole repeatedly).

Meanwhile, Mom had decided to allow my heroin-using half-brother Mark (who is 10 years older than I am) to move home, because she was pretty sure he'd end up getting himself murdered if she didn't.) Ostensibly, the move home was to be only for a year, until he could "get his shit together". He still lives there. My wife and I (who have been married for 9 years), now live 1200 miles away.)

In addition to heroin, Mark's other primarily interests in life were:

1. White-Power racism (centered around various batshit insane conspiracies involving Jews, Freemasons, the Trilateral Commission, etc. etc. -- Just do a Google video search for the movie "Blood in the face". The bullshit spewed by people in that movie is a pretty accurate mirror of what I had to hear incessantly from 16 until I finally scraped together enough money to move out).

2. Absurdist fantasies centered around "Turner Diaries"-style armed violence against ZOG (the "Zionist Occupation Government").

(Not that my Mom was any better: I remember one particularly glaring incident, while we were waiting for an appointment somewhere or other, and she spotted a WHITE Punk-rock-looking guy with a significant number of piercings and tattoos and such. According to Mom, he looked "just like one of them Ubangi niggers." Sorry, folks: this is what I come from).

One of my other big influences at the time was listening to Short-wave broadcasting. (I was -- and remain -- very interested in different cultures and VERY open to meeting new people, especially when they are from outside of my particular demographic, if that makes sense). I had to become somewhat of an autodidact for various reasons (mainly because the miserable Redneck hell-hole where I lived had an abysmal excuse for a "school", where for various reasons I spent more time being bullied, than actually "learning". (of course, the fact that they stuck me in the "Gifted" program *and* the "Resource Room" simultaneously didn't exactly endear me to my classmates.
(In case you're wondering why: I was born 3 months prematurely, and am fairly severely visually-impaired as a result. Just mentioning it up front, in case you think it matters.)

Back to Short-wave broadcasting. Back in "The Day" (heh!), short-wave broadcasts originated from the U.S. tended to be either be: Fundie/Dominionist propaganda, survivalist/militia "patriot" propaganda, or some blend of the two.

As a result, nothing the Teabaggers say surprises me. I heard it all, incessantly back in day, either from my racist half-brother, or from what was at THAT time (rightfully) considered the "lunatic fringe" culture of Short-wave sociopaths.

Stuff that pisses me off:

1. "Libertarians" who can't tell the difference between the (wholly-mythical) "Free Market", and the REAL economy (transnational corporate plutocracy).

2. Defeatist ass-clowns who actually think "staying home" (failing to vote) somehow "sends a message". The ONLY "message" that has ever sent -- or WILL ever send -- is "I may pretend to care about making the world better, but really, I just like to bitch and whine about stuff." (Hint: to the extent that "depressed voter turnout" among Liberals/Leftists/"Progressives" was a factor in the Teabagger fiasco last November, EVERYTHING the Teabaggers have done subsequently (from Scott Walker's Union-busting right on down to the current "Debt-ceiling" mess) is YOUR FAULT, if you're one of those who thought "staying home" last November would somehow "punish Obama for being too Right-wing/Bipartisan/Compromising too often". I don't care if my saying that "offends" you: if you "stayed home", you basically handed this country to the Teabaggers on a silver platter, and you are a traitorous asshole, no matter what inane rationalizations/apologetics for doing so you may be able to dream up.

Well, that's about it. I'll be interested to see if this post just sits here doing nothing, or if I've provoked a flame-war from the apathetic clowns who "stayed home" (and in so doing, REALLY let "The terrorists(Teabaggers) win". Hopefully I'll keep participating (assuming,of course, that there IS anything left after August 2nd. -- Thanks again, Teabagger-enablers!) :(

[bigwillq]

1. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. Welcome to DU. n/t

[gateley]

3. Welcome to DU, renegade 2011!

Regarding your "bio", I'm in agreement about those who didn't vote. But I've hashed through that over and over. Bottom line, if someone feels that strongly about something, we're not going to change their minds. I don't think they're apathetic, they cared enough to do what they felt they had to. At least they're paying attention.

Anyway, glad you're here. Just wish you'd stop stomping on those with whom we disagree.

[renegade2011]

12. No. They "cared enough" to come up with a wafer-thin rationalization for NOT DOING ANYTHING

There's a big difference. Don't get me wrong: rallies, demonstrations, and other forms of "consciousness raising" are all well and good -- AS consciousness-raising. Complaining about shitty policies foisted on us all by psychopaths is all well and good, too.

BUT:

1. If you then fail to participate in the ONE activity which could (at least in theory) make a difference, and your enemies win, then you don't "care" about ANYTHING. You're a whiny "concern-troll", or some kind of fundraising-whore.
There is ONE thing I genuinely admire about the Teabaggers: they actually follow through. Their ideology may be delusional in the extreme, but they really do know how to "play the game".
Instead of whining about how there was "no difference" between the Republicans and Democrats (or wasting time fantasizing about some sort of "Third Party" scenario that has absolutely no chance of going ANYWHERE, given how American electoral politics actually works), at least SOME of these people -- addle-brained as they may be -- were cunning and strategic enough to basically take over the Republican party, for all intents and purposes. Sure, there may still actually be a (vanishingly-few) "Moderate Conservatives" who are stupid enough to continue being Republican, but they're woefully outnumbered at this point, and can easily be shouted down by whichever Teabagger weirdo has the loudest bullhorn, or most blatantly evil bullshit scrawled on his (mis-spelled) homemade sign.

Last November you didn't hear Teabaggers attempting to justify their own apathy/hypocrisy on the grounds that aping the VAST horde of nonparticipatory dupes who never even BOTHER voting would somehow "send a message". They knew that the only way to genuinely "send a message" was to QUIT WHINING, MOBILIZE, AND MAKE A GRAB FOR THE REINS OF POWER.

Frankly, I'll keep hammering on this point whenever it seems necessary to do so, because it NEEDS to be said. The "Cheesehead Revolution" against Scott Walker's union-busting bullshit likely wouldn't have been neccesary except for the "depressed voter turn-out" among people who *claim* to know better.

And yes, I know full well that I'm "confrontational". So be it. To my way of thinking, the only way things even stand a CHANCE of improving is if we *first* address the problem post by apathetic whiny dead-weight puseurs.

Another thing: if failure to participate supposedly "sends a message", then why all the hue-and-cry over instances of voter fraud? If it REALLY doesn't make any difference, then either take the "Alter or Abolish" route, the civil disobedience route, or simply STFU, because YOUR WHINING DOESN'T MATTER.
DO something (and no, "organizing"/leafeletting/propagandizing to get OTHERS to do something does not count.

[gateley]

15. Sigh. I don't think "sending a message" did anything other

than to hurt US ALL. I'm vehemently opposed to that approach and get angry when people get on their high moral horses to justify it. It's not about THEM (although they seem to think it is), it's about us all. They're not being realistic.

And you're wasting time "hammering on this point". Those who feel otherwise won't listen, those who agree will chime in and agree. Nothing changes, nothing gets accomplished. I only hope those who "showed them" during the mid-terms realize how much they've hurt us all, and themselves, and will put their egos and self-righteousness aside in 2012.

I'm pretty pragmatic.

[renegade2011]

17. Sadly enough, you have a point:

If ass-clowns like Michelle Bachmann haven't woken them up, then they're worthless, pragmatically speaking. The only "message" Obama & Company heard last November was "further to the Right, damnit!"

The solution to a president who is WAY to bipartisan is NOT to further empower the opposing party, and anyone who believed it was (and then DARES to complain about the policies enacted/forced on us by Teabaggers) is a lying hypocrite, or just as likely a Teabagger plant whose entire purpose is to sew FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) by training us to be apathetic and defeatist.

[renegade2011]

18. Typo:

"Empower the party" == "Empower the OPPOSING party"

[renegade2011]

14. Frankly, they deserve far worse than a (rather gentle) verbal drubbing:

Because Y'know what? Their failure to participate when it REALLY mattered (last November) "stomped" all of the rest of us, because it at leat partially helped to unleash the Teabagger caucus, who, in case anybody has failed to notice, are hell-bent on running the global economy off a cliff.
If well-deserved criticism of apathetic, defeatist whiners counts as "stomping", then I for one will PROUDLY wear the boots. :)

[Bluenorthwest]

4. Howdy! Mennonites make great pie!

But they are not evangelical, nor do they have much in common with that crowd. They sure can bake however.

[renegade2011]

13. True...to a point:

The thing about Mennonites is, they've mostly been tricked into aiding and abetting the crazy Fundies, voting Republican because of their own personal opposition to abortion, etc.
On an individual level, Mennonites are some of the nicest, most inoffensively wholesome, and genuinely supportive people you'd ever want to meet. The Mennonite subculture is generally welcoming and friendly, as well. The problem is their tendency to support the crazy Evangelical/dominionist crowd.

But yeah, totally agreed about the food! One thing PA Dutch country does have going for it, is the food.

[Glorfindel]

5. Welcome to DU

Interesting stuff about short-wave broadcasts. I didn't know that.

[renegade2011]

16. Short-wave

was a good method of disseminating viewpoints (potentially on a global scale) relatively inexpensively, especially before the Internet became as prevalent as it is now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave

In the US, it tended to be dominated by exactly the sort of folks who now gravitate toward stuff like Alex Jones, the Ron Paul "rEVOLution", weirdo fundie preachers, etc.
A good example of what I'm talking about was "Milton William (Bill) cooper"

Basically, he started out as a UFO conspiracy theorist (just Google for "his omnipotent highness Krill"), then basically turned on the entire UFO movement, claiming that it was a plot by "the Illuminati", and became a fairly typical conspiracy "theorist" (prone to rambling, half-drunk diatribes about Freemasonry, the "mystery schools", the ATF, etc.)
He regarded the Branch Davidians as "just another church" (as opposed to heavily-armed, millenialist cultists), and used to go on and on about how when the "Feds" finally came for him (since he neglected to pay income tax and believed that the local county sherriff was *really* the highest legitimate level of government), he'd come out shooting.
Long story short: he got off exactly ONE head-shot, before they took his crazy, drunk ass down.

The only thing that really differentiated him from other "Christian Patriot" types (like Bo gritz -- who he utterly hated) was that his wife was of Chinese ancestry, and he was avowedly anti-racist.

The loony Right-wing underground has *always* know how to do the DIY thing -- creating their own magazines, publishing houses, organizing, etc.
Republican "strategists" were stupid to think the "Southern Strategy" wouldn't end up with their party being eaten alive, by the crazies.

[begin_within]

6. Tell us how you really feel.

[mike_c]

7. welcome to DU....

I lived in Mennonite country for a couple of years during the 1990s. What I remember the most about Lebanon County, Pennsyltucky was the rural beauty mixed with urban squalor. The Amish and Mennonites, and other old families, owned nearly all of that bucolic rural farmland and they never ever sold it except to family members or, at worst, someone else in their congregation. That meant that 95 percent of the population had to live on 5 percent of the land, jammed into urban corridors along the major roads and highways. It was grimy, loud, traffic ridden, and crumbling, as I recall.

Oh, and the booze laws were INSANE. You had to buy six-pacs of beer in restaurants-- typically pizza parlors with one or two ovens in the back and acres of walk in coolers to stack the six-pacs in. For more than two six-pacs, IIRC, you had to go to a "case store," and of course the state owned a monopoly on hard alcohol and wine sales.

I won't even fly over Pennsylvania if I can avoid it, now.

[renegade2011]

19. You NAILED it!

The only thing that's really changed since then:

1. The "decayed and crumbling" towns have basically deteriorated into complete slums (typically on one side of town), and vaguely-affluent folks on the other side of town, with essentially nothing in between. Crackhousesd galore (if that's your thing).

2. LOTS of racism (most of it just under the surface). Some examples:
I took some college courses in Williamsport for a few months (until I had to drop a course, which put me under the minimum credits for my student loan -- no funding, no more college!), and there was this tremendous amount of low-key grumbling among many of the (older) White populace about the "Influx" (who were actually fairly representative of all "races"), a lot of whom were either former drug-rehab patients who moved into Williamsport because the town was blighted enough so that they could afford to live there, or just happened to not be White.)

3. Lebanon PA (the town my wife and I lived in until we moved here), is basically totally polarized: a significant amount of Puerto Rican people many of them from the same area in New York -- moved to Lebanon, and settled on the North Side, where they are rather busily engaged in revitalizing the blighted, crumbling slumhole they found, by way of Hispanic-cultural stuff (little neighborhood bodegas, Puerto-Rican restaurants, grocery stores, Spanish-language churches, etc.) There's this continual, low-keep grumbling about the "Rickans" (mostly from older Whites, who are basically all of German ancestry, and were the ones who couldn't manage to scrape up the funding to do "White Flight" out into what passes for "
suburbia" in that county -- Annville, Reading, Myerstown, etc.

My wife and I now live in Florida (which right now, is infinitely better than PA -- altho a few years of our current Governor's Teabagger policies will probably change that, soon enough!) :(

Really, PA is no worse than the anywhere else in the "Rust Belt". (Ain't Free trade" globalization glorious, tho?) :-/

[Speck Tater]

8. Welcome to DU. You'll find plenty of kindred spirits here. nt

(btw: "nt" means "no text", i.e. no message, so the whole message is in the header. Kind of like twitter.)

(By the way, "btw" means "by the way")

:)

Just mentioning that because sometimes people new to DU get confused by the lingo.

[renegade2011]

20. Been "lurking" (off and on) since 2009.

One thing I do want to know:
How does the "K + R" ranking thing work?
Does that have to do with what gets shown as "top threads" on the front page?

[Speck Tater]

23. It works like this...

K means "kick" when you kick a post to the top of the heap by posting ANY reply, even an empty one. It doesn't do anything toward ranking the post, it just makes it more visible for those who might have missed it.

R means you clicked on the "recommend this post" link. When a post gets enough recommendations it goes to the Greatest Page.

[abelenkpe]

9. Hello!

Libertarians seriously bug me too. Welcome to DU.

[renegade2011]

21. My basic problem with Libertarians

1. Their hypothetical "Laissez-faire" economy bears absolutely no resemblance to *real* Capitalism, as it exists. For one thing, the for-profit corporation is basically just a huge "cost-externalizing" machine. The owners/investors in the corporation are safe behind their "veil" of limited liability, from any real consequences of the corporation's actions. For example, BP was "punished" (if you want to call it that) for the Gulf fiasco, by being fined the equivalent of a few weeks in profits. The long-term effects from BP's cost-cutting measures....well, you get the idea.

2. They give a veneer of intellectual respectability to the notion that government should NOT intervene to (for example) clean up after corporations like BP, or those who, in the 1970s, dumped so much industrial waste into the Cuyahoga river (in Ohio, where my wife is from), that it CAUGHT FIRE, on a fairly routine basis.
Not to mention their opposition to the 1964 Civil Rights act (which -- whether they "intend" it or not) basically amounts to mollycoddling racists. (The fact that the "Libertarian" movement tends to be both overwhelmingly white, and at least somewhat affluent has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with that, however) (/snark)

3. Two words: AYN RAND
4. Two more words: RAND PAUL

If you're interested in reading something that is pro-market (but not Stupidtarian) you should check out basically anything written by David Korten (in particular, "When corporations rule the world").

I'll take his stuff over (for example) Hayek any day.

[pansypoo53219]

10. sadly. it's more of mushy low information people NOT CARING AT ALL.

they have their sports, their teevee, and family and politics is for other people. just leave them alone. and it also makes me insane.

[thatgemguy]

11. I have been into SWL

Since I was a teen. I guess you listened to shows like the "Hour of the Time" with Bill Cooper among others.

[renegade2011]

22. ding ding ding -- you win the prize!

And Pete Peters. And William Pierce from the "National Alliance", and Jackie Patru from (smirk) the "Sweet Liberty" show. Part of the reason I could never get the supposed "Humor" other people see in Glenn Beck is that his crazy bullshit scribblings are *way* too much of a "flashback", if that makes any sense.

Trust me: the Teabaggers are mostly Elderly white reactionary weirdos who've been part of that scene since the "Red Scare" 1950s, or the children/grandchildren of those folks. All that was required to re-brand the "Tea Party" was:

1. Instead of the American flag (the display of which had become so trendy as to be essentially ubiquitous, post-9/11), they use the GADSDEN flag ("Don't tread on me").

2. Instead of screaming incoherently about "commies", , they scream -- equally incoherently -- about "socialists".

3. A significant proportion of them are simply too old and infirm to realistically be able to back up their bullshit about "we came unarmed, this time!" (The 1990s really WERE a while ago!)

That's it. Same basic "message". Same sociopathy just under the surface.