What's the best thing about Carol Moseley Braun dropping out?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

edit: oops! added the obligatory 'Other'

[Maddy McCall]

1. Not having to watch her fawn over Dean in the debates...

Now Dean will have to debate without the protection of Braun.

[0rganism]

21. They did look pretty good dancing together after those speeches, tho

I forget the name of the event, but there were lots of candidates giving (relatively) brief presentations, and it was in Iowa. The candidates were chatting it up on stage afterwards, some dancey tune comes over the PA, and there CMB and Howard go, tripping the light fantastic. Kind of a surreal moment.

She would visually balance a Dean ticket, that's for sure.

Then again, she'd balance 6 or 7 of the other candidates. Nevermind.

[mikehiggins]

2. I support Clark but I am sorry to see CMB step away.

I think it is important to the nation to have a woman in the race and she certainly did a great job of it.

If/when Clark wins in November I surely hope that he will invite her to be part of his administration, and that she will accept.

[saltpoint]

3. With respect...

...this poll does not acknowledge that CMB was a qualified and dignified presence in the primaries. With the same money as the leading candidates, her voice would have been heard.

There is very little that is "good" about CMB having to drop out of the tried and true process of our party selecting its standard-bearer.

She's a class act, someone who understands the spirit of public service.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

6. I think it is unfair to say that

considering that one of the four choices I gave was "There's nothing good about it because she was the best candidate". Please note as well that at the time I am writing this, that option is polling 11% -- better, I think, than I've ever seen her do in a candidate preference poll here at DU. Perhaps she was really the candidate who was hurt the most by the 'unelectibility' rap.

And I certainly mean no disrespect to CMB.

[saltpoint]

9. I read the poll carefully.

I found little in it that acknowledged the process of which CMB was an important part. The tone is clinical and dismissive, despite the one choice you offer, which subverts itself by forcing the respondent to isolate one candidate as "the best" or agree that CMB's decision to quit is "good." I argue that her leaving the primary race is not good whether or NOT she is the best candidate.

I took offense because I thought CMB deserved broader and deeper consideration for her contribution to our party.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. Well I'm sorry if I gave offense

and I assure you again I do not mean to, nor do I mean to be 'dismissive' of CMB. If nothing else I have provided an additional forum for you to air your views about her.

[saltpoint]

22. Your apology should go to --

-- CMB. I am not running in the Democratic primary.

The poll reads as dismissive, almost Republican. "Another good endorsement for Dean" reduces her effort to nothing except as it assists another's gain.

Your second choice suggests a "thinning of the field" is "long overdue." Who says it's long overdue if no votes have been cast? There is no numerical limit to candidacies for higher office. The second choice is a purge in your poll.

The one pro-CMB choice chokes itself off. Respondents must decide between CMB as their "best" candidate or agree that it's good that she's gone. It's not a reasonable choice.

The last choice sounds like an excerpt from Rush Limbaugh's program. We use language to describe as closely and respectfully as possible the social variance in our nation. The intent is to acknowledge and include everyone. Dittoheads are the ones who first urged that we abandon "politically correct" speech -- Limbaugh's impact on this was huge from the beginning of his show.

I'm sorry, but I think the poll is a disservice to Ambassador Moseley Braun.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. Your disapproval is noted.

[saltpoint]

25. You might choose to --

-- respond to the points raised rather than "note" disapproval.

The poll is dismissive of a Democratic candidate in each of your choices. Each of the choices subtracts from the candidate's contribution. It seems odd that you would post a poll with that aim on this site. The poll's tone is right out of the Freeps.

[LuminousX]

32. It's a poll. You objected. Objection was acknowledged.

A 'response' to the objection is not required. It is not Fean's job to convince you of anything or provide service to your in regards to this poll.

The tone of this poll is just fine. Perhaps you are a tad bit sensitive at the moment.

[Mairead]

31. No, not unfair. My answer is 'nothing good', but not 'she's the best'

Her presence and voice were important, even though she was too conservative for me to support (I kept hoping she'd move left).

[Skip Intro]

4. Nothing good about it

her voice will be missed

How can it be time to "thin the field" before the first votes are cast?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. No more vituperous CMB flame threads

oh....wait.....nevermind

[Wonco_the_Sane]

7. voted 4 Dean endorsment...How about a CMB VP nod??

[davidinalameda]

26. Braun has a few ethical questions of her own

that led to her being defeated for re-election

do you want that baggage on a national ticket? I sure don't

[saltpoint]

28. dwickham --

-- you're right about the ethical cloud over then-Senator Moseley-Braun, but there was a sense of redemption in this campaign for her. I would support a ticket if she were on it, whether as Pres or VP, but agree with you that Rove et al would smear the entire party if CMB were a nominee.

Strategically it would be a political mistake, but in my bones and blood, I think she deserves what songwriter Paul Simon calls "a shot of redemption."

I wish that Rove's attitude wasn't the way things worked, because I believe that gay and lesbian people would fare better in a government peopled by CMBs than they would under W and his narrow-minded adinistration.

[AP]

8. It will be interesting to see where the women's vote goes.

She was getting 6-9% in some national polls and I bet a chunk of that was from people who were voting for "Carol" and had no idea who she was.

[Maddy McCall]

10. Yes, we women, we are stupid voters...

We will vote for women just because they don't have penises. /sarcasm

AP, that's not fair. As was proven after the Nineteenth Amendment passed, women don't block vote. They vote for the candidate that they feel best addresses their concerns.

C'mon, you know better than that! :-)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. M-I-S-O-G-Y-N-Y

[Maddy McCall]

14. Surely you are NOT referring to MY post

[DemBones DemBones]

16. Yeah, if we voted as a bloc, CMB would have been doing

MUCH better in the polls! I'm sorry she dropped out this soon. I admired her until she started protecting Dean in the debates. OK, I still admired her, but not when she was kowtowing to him, angling for a possible position if he wins.

[Maddy McCall]

18. Exactly my sentiments...

I do admire her and think that she has said things that the men didn't have the *ahem* cajones to say. She is gutsy and assertive.


But she lost my admiration when she became more concerned with Dean's campaign than her own.

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. Well she certainly wouldn't stick up for or endorse Clark

He hasn't "made up his mind" on partial birth abortion. Frankly, that makes him an unacceptable candidate for women, in my opinion.

[Mattforclark]

24. Clark Responds to President Bush's Signing of the Late Term Abortion Bill

http://clark04.com/press/release/064/

Clark Responds to President Bush's Signing of the Late Term Abortion Bill

"I am deeply disappointed that President Bush has chosen to make a political statement by signing an anti-choice bill which contains no exception for the life and health of the mother. This bill is unconstitutional, and it sacrifices the health and safety of American women. We should not stand for President Bush's attempts to return this country to the dark days before Roe v. Wade. I stand with the United States Constitution, the United States Supreme Court, and the majority of the American people in believing that our government has no right to come between a woman, her family, and her doctor in making such a personal and private decision."

[KaraokeKarlton]

27. Clark: Undecided on partial-birth abortion

Undecided on partial-birth abortion

Q: Would you sign the partial-birth abortion bill, which is about to be passed by Congress?

CLARK: I don't know whether I'd sign that bill or not. I'm not into that detail on partial-birth abortion. In general, I'm pro-life--excuse me, I'm pro-abortion rights.

Source: CNN, Crossfire Aug 1, 2003

http://www.policy.com/2004/Wesley_Clark_Abortion.htm

[Mattforclark]

29. "I'm not into that detail on partial-birth abortion"

When you don't know what a bill says, it is difficult to decide whether or not you would sign it. He said that on August 1, before he decided to run and about 2 months before the bill was signed. He has since educated himself on the intricacies of the bill.

You can find plenty of wingnut criticism of clark on abortion at http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=clark+partial+birth+abortion&sa=N&tab=wn

He is "an extremist" if that's good enough for you.

[LuminousX]

33. Interesting, couple this with views on Dr. Steinberg... very interesting

[AP]

34. You know how I know this?

Because I, and many people I know, when they see a bunch of names on the ballot and they're all men, and you can't really differentiate them, or you think they're all equal, will vote for the woman.

I was just talking to a Democrat running in a primary with five men on the primary ballot, and she's the one woman. She was telling me she thinks she has a good chance to win because, although few people will know any of them, many will vote for the woman.

[edzontar]

36. Nice sentiment...not!

I guess women are a bunch of ditzes...excluding the ones who think General Clark is "Awesome"!

[AP]

37. Something like 30-70% voters don't know candidates. Think they're all men?

You think some men don't vote fore the woman just because she's a woman?

[GemMom]

12. Not to be picky but

her name is spelled Carol Moseley Braun.

[clarknyc]

15. Nevermind

Edited for unusually poor reading comprehension...

[Awsi Dooger]

17. Well, the average height of our candidates rises by 1/2 inch

No foreseeable change until Kucinich or Kerry drops out. And if they do it on the same day, status quo.

[Maddy McCall]

19. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I had not thought about it that way!

Great analysis, Awsie. Thanks for the laugh. :-)

[saltpoint]

30. There's no "best thing" about it.

There are no women running in the GOP primaries. There are no people of color running in the GOP primaries. There aren't any CANDIDATES running in the GOP primaries -- because the GOP is an autocratic, top-down, heavy-on-the-white-male Bush juggernaut.

When anyone challenges that juggernaut, say John McCain in South Carolina, Karl Rove smears that Anyone. Diversity is not the GOP's longsuit.

CMB was refreshing to see on a stage of 8 male candidates in our party's debates. She was direct, realistic, prepared and equal to the task. She's not quitting because she's a quitter, but because there wasn't enough money to compete. It's sad that money should silence a valuable voice for our party, and sadder that people she inspired to pay attention and participate will be without her.

When CMB speaks to the convention this summer in Boston, the image of a gracious and intelligent woman leader will be beamed into living rooms. I hope she joins the new DEMOCRATIC administration in January 2005.

[democratreformed]

35. I agree - no best thing

I am sad to see her go. I admired her and what she was doing. I have been in a position where I had to admit to myself that I could not compete in a man's world (at least not in the position I was in). It was not a really great feeling for me. What's even sadder is that I can count myself as part of the reason that she decided to quit. B/C I chose to support someone else.