Clark opposes decriminalization of marijuana

[KaraokeKarlton]

I was looking at this policy site of various politicians and discovered that Clark is against decriminalization of marijuana. I hadn't heard it mentioned here before so I thought I'd mention it.

Here's the site I saw it on, you have to scroll down to find his position.

http://www.policy.com/Drugs.htm

[digno dave]

1. surprised?

can you say "campaign derailment"?

he's not stupid.

[HumanPatriot]

3. nor liberal/progressive

:)

[digno dave]

14. nor peaked/fading

:)

[windansea]

35. LOL

fast learner are you??

:bounce:

[Dr.Phool]

31. 1973

In 1973, when I was a Yippie! in Cleveland, we organized a national smoke-in to legalize marijuana. I organized the event on Public Square in downtown Cleveland.

Dennis Kucinich was a freshman City Councilman at the time, and was very progressive for the era. I tried to get him to speak at the event, and he got away from us as fast as he could.:wtf:

This isn't a knock on Dennis, just a little humorous incident from way back. I still like him, and I don't blame him for not supporting us. It would have been political suicide back then. But, the times, they are a changin'. Hopefully for the better.:toast:

:kick:

[redqueen]

60. Not hopefully

In reality.

link

[Hoppin_Mad]

2. There goes the pot-head vote ! :-( -nt-

[KaraokeKarlton]

4. For some reason

I'm guessing that's a lot of his supporters seeing how the man doesn't even have a political record to run one. :shrug:

[lurk_no_more]

67. looking at dean political record

this is a plus IMO. deans a Rublican by his past record alone.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

59. you mean, the handful that get off their ass to go vote?

"Duh, was there like, an election today? (cough, cough) punch it it man! ha ha" :smoke:

Besides, "High Class" Kerry has already cornered the pothead vote! (Is that Freedom Rock, John Kerry? Well turn it up, man!)

[elixir]

61. bummer, dude.

[pasadenaboy]

5. Sell out

typical democratic establishment sell out. (all the candidates, I think)

There is no reason for marijuana to be illegal. It should be legal, and heavily taxed. That would definitely solve a good deal of the CA fiscal crisis.

We need leaders to tell the truth, not keep telling people the lies they want to believe.

[KaraokeKarlton]

8. Dean said he's legalize medical marijuana

as long as the FDA found it to be beneficial, which he suspects they will. He said he'd have them do a study on it.

[Mairead]

9. Please be accurate: that's no longer his policy.

[KaraokeKarlton]

16. Yes it is

He was opposed to it in Vermont, but finally softened his position towards the end of his governorship. He said if the FDA says it's helpful that he will legalize medical marijuana and that he's in favor of treatment for abusers over jailing them. He also said he will have the FDA do a study and support their findings.

[Mairead]

41. Find it on his website and post the url, please

[bitchkitty]

24. What is his policy then?

Dean's not going to interfere with the law in places like Washington, California, Oregon, etc., once he becomes President.

I am active in the MM movement. We had a huge victory a little while back with the court ruling that sick people were an exception to Federal drug laws. The tide is turning.

[Mairead]

43. He has none. He dropped any mention of it from his policies.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

62. Dean fought against bill that would have allowed medical marijuana

http://www.GraniteStaters.com/guide/dean.html

-snip-

What Dean has done: During 2002, Vermont's legislature considered H. 645, which would have protected seriously ill Vermonters from arrest and jail for using medical marijuana with their doctors' recommendations. Dean was, as the Rutland Herald reported, "a staunch opponent."

H. 645 passed the Republican-controlled Vermont House by 82-59, and there were sufficient votes in the Democratic-controlled Senate to pass it there. But Dean used his influence with Senate leaders -- who acknowledged that they didn't want to pass a bill that Dean would veto -- to make sure it never received a floor vote. The legislature did eventually pass, and Dean signed, a bill creating a task force to study the issue. The task force reported in early 2003 that medical marijuana patients deserve legal protection, but Dean's actions guaranteed that medical marijuana patients would continue to face arrest, leaving it to a future governor to fix this injustice.

-snip-

First of all, I disagree with the idea that political processes ought to be used to legalize medical marijuana. I'm a doctor. I think when you use marijuana for medicinal reasons it ought to go through exactly the same process that every other drug does when you decide whether it's a drug that makes sense from a medical point of view or not. So I object to legislatures and referendums and so forth deciding that they'll legalize medical marijuana.

-snip-


From The Nation, March 31, 2003:
" cannot stand state initiatives that seek to legalize medical marijuana. 'I hate the idea of legislators and politicians practicing medicine,' he says. Should the feds be busting medical marijuana clubs? 'Depends on the circumstances,' he says. 'In general, no.' If he were president, Dean adds, he would force the Food and Drug Administration to evaluate medical marijuana, and he would be prepared to accept its findings."

-snip-

[lurk_no_more]

69. Ah yes, the "study" approach

And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[Mairead]

12. Kucinich is the only one who's willing to play it straight

He's completely clear about it: his policy is that mj should be treated like alcohol.

[jmaier]

6. His weed watch grade was pretty good (B+)

I don't know any of the candidates who have spoken out in general decriminalization of pot, other than for medicinal uses.

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread18106.shtml

On Jan. 6, the Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit Marijuana Policy Project issued its final report cards for each of the major presidential candidates, grading them based on their support for medical marijuana. In just eight months of campaigning and lobbying the candidates, the MPP reports success in persuading six of the nine major candidates to adopt various positive positions on medical marijuana. Topping the list is Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who earned an A+.

The MPP notes that Kucinich told the San Francisco Chronicle that he supports medical marijuana "without reservation" and that as president he would be willing to sign an executive order permitting its use. Also at the top of the class: former Illinois Sen. Carol Moseley Braun, who earned an A and Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, with an A-. Both pledged to end Drug Enforcement Administration-led raids on medical marijuana patients, as did retired Gen. Wesley Clark, whom the MPP awarded a B+. The Rev. Al Sharpton earned a B.

[tameszu]

Hey, look--Clark gets a better grade than Dean on marijauna

This attack is not only silly, but incompetent, as I believe you're supporting Dean, who does worse on this scorecard than Clark. No major candidate supports decrim, so I don't even understand why you're bringing this up and specifically targeting Clark.

[Clark4VotingRights]

7. Classic wedge issue that Wes is too smart to go for.

Let's get our country back from the fascists before worrying
about the wedgies, ok?

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. It's the same thing with Dean and his view on guns

That's the biggest wedge issue out there...and one in which Dean's position will get a lot of votes none of the others could ever hope to get. There are a lot of single issue voters and gun rights and legalized marijuana are two of them. You're wasting your breath trying to talk people out of that if it's their pet issue.

[exJW]

10. He also says in that same quote..

"I might change my mind on that, but right now...."

[KaraokeKarlton]

13. might change his mind really means nothing

it's nothing more than an attempt to ride the fence on the issue and play it safe. That's not very progressive, IMO.

[Renew Deal]

15. Or it's not an issue he has spent a lot of time with.

I doubt he thinks about legalizing weed much. You might be able to convince him is what he is saying. Give him some good reasons. He does support medical weed.

[KaraokeKarlton]

18. The policy site doesn't mention medical marijuana

It just says he opposes decriminalization. That implies he opposes all decriminalization.

[JohnKleeb]

21. Can I see the quote in the full context

Ive looked at the grades based on the candiates statments on drugs and Clark while he doesnt score high as Kucinich does or maybe Kerry who also is strong on this issue, is more higher than Dean is. I dont have the link on me but I do remember Clark getting a higher grade than Dean. That policy site is great but it would be nice to have the quote in full context, and you never know that implication may be true. I personally support medical marijuana.

[KaraokeKarlton]

34. You can click on the link that shows his quote

right there on the page I linked to in the first post. Since that's the site I saw it on, it's the only link I have handy.

[JohnKleeb]

38. ok thanks

[Mattforclark]

37. He has said multiple times

that he favors medical marijuana. Off the top of my head, see the rock the vote debate and his 1st town hall meeting in NH.

[Mairead]

63. But if it's not a declared policy, it's for sure not real.

That's Si Kahn's rule, and a good one. Declared policies are only written in sand, but anything else is written in the wind.

Anyone who wants to be treated as an adult rather than as merely a gullible, biddable work unit had better support Dennis Kucinich with serious money and their votes, because on this issue as in the others, he's the only one doing the right thing.

[windansea]

19. got a link for Dean's "position"

sounds pretty flip floppable to me

[Renew Deal]

23. Does Dean still smoke weed?

He said that he used to. No one asked if he stopped.

[bitchkitty]

26. ha ha! Sounds like an Eggo to me!

[windansea]

39. sounds like Clark gets a B+

and Dean's going to summer school to make up that D minus

[George_Bonanza]

17. Dean's weed stance

From his website, I have read that he opposes decriminalization (or was it legalization?), and says he wants medicinal proof that marijuana is helpful before allowing MEDICAL use. He's not George W. Bush, but he's no Dennis Kucinich.

[windansea]

22. hell...we have medical marijuana in CA now

how come they don't in Vermont??

[Rowdyboy]

20. NONE OF THE CANDIDATES SUPPORT DECRIMINALIZATION except Kucinich and Braun

Read your own link. Why not quote ALL the candidate's positions.

I could just as easily have posted a thread stating that Dean opposes decriminalization. Of course he does. But that would be shoddy and misleading.

Invented outrage is so disingenious

[KaraokeKarlton]

25. Outrage?

my post doesn't even offer my own personal opinion, let alone outrage.

:eyes:

[windansea]

30. nice backfire

this thread shows Clark is more progressive than Dean on this

and if Dean is so progressive..why didn't he support medical pot in Vermont...like we have here NOW in CA...hmmmm?

ooo that's right..he wasn't running for Prez then

[KaraokeKarlton]

33. He opposed it because there wasn't enough facts to back doing it

Dean works in facts, not ideology. That means that if someone provides him with the facts that support doing something and they are good facts, he'll change his position accordingly. That's a good thing.

And the first post still showed no "outrage".

Nice attempt to change the subject.

[windansea]

36. Dean gets D minus Clark gets B+

work on those facts and get back to us ok?

[Mairead]

64. Please, don't try treating people as fools just because Dean treats you so

There are HUNDREDS of peer-reviewed journal articles--I myself cited a huge literature survey to Eloriel when she tried to make that same bogus claim--, at least DOZENS of methodologically sound studies including one requested by Nixon 30 years ago fergodssake, and extensive clinical experience going back to prehistoric times. And it ALL says that marijuana should be legal for adult use. Not merely self-medication use, but all use.

Dean is either a liar or a crap scientist.

[diamondsoul]

65. "There wasn't(sic) enough facts..."

That's pure unadulterated manure if I ever heard it! The facts have been out there in support of medical marijuana use for more than 30 years now. Dean just didn't do his homework, and as a client of physicians I resent the hell out of that.

No, more than that, as the survivor of a family full of cancer victims I WHOLLY condemn his ignorance! My mother could very well have defeated the cancer she was battling- IF she'd been able to kep enough food in her stomach to have some fuel for her body. Instead she puked her guts up every time she took more than three bites of food, no matter how many pills they pumped into her. She goes in to have a routine tumor removal and contracts a Staphylococcus infection that kills her, and ALL because she couldn't EAT.

Clean, safe, medically prescribed marijuana might have kept her alive, but we'll never know, and yeah, that pisses me off! I lost the woman who gave me life and my best friend in the world, my father lost his life and soul-mate, and my teenaged sisters lost the mother they needed at that stage in life because of assinine laws like marijuana prohibition, and you and Howard Dean want to talk to me about evidence?

Sorry, that isn't enough to convince me what I saw with my own eyes wasn't reality.

[bitchkitty]

28. I'm not outraged -

While this is a pet cause, I have a much more important cause - freeing America from the neocons clutches.

[jmaier]

27. Medical Marijauna Project Link

Medical Marijuana Group Issues Final Report Card; Most Democratic Contenders Would Stop Raids on Patients

http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr010704gsmm.html

Candidates scores

Kucinich A+
Braun A
Kerry A-
Clark B+
Sharpton B
Dean D-
Edwards F
Gephardt F
Lieberman F

[windansea]

32. LOL

good try KK

[mike_c]

29. on that note I'm gonna fire up a spliff and head outa here....

G'night, DU.

[KaraokeKarlton]

40. Cheney to the left of Clark on the Death Penalty?

That's what it sounds like to me. Weird.

http://www.policy.com/Crime.htm

[jmaier]

You're indefatigable

I guess I have to go do some more research.

BTW, I suspect that you know this isn't probably true so why the supposition?

[KaraokeKarlton]

44. The site I listed gives the quotes they use...click the links

They're right in the section where they list the positions.

[jmaier]

45. Sure

but the candidates have many statements in many places, this site is using an edited, possibly dated subset.

I generally look at Clark's or Dean's sites if I want their position on some particular issue. Who knows who the 3rd parties are? But, hey, knock yourself out. Gov Dean comes out even less progressive than Wes Clark at the site you're using.

[KaraokeKarlton]

47. Dean supporters know Dean isn't a liberal

But Clark supporters seem to think that Clark is, and this site makes him sound anything but liberal.

[jmaier]

48. LOL

Nah, Clark is the handpicked candidate of the Clintons, or the poster child of the DLC, or a PNAC plant, or an 'empty suit', or ...

He's liberal on some things, centrist on others. I don't think too many supporters are confused.

[KaraokeKarlton]

51. Clark himself said that Clinton didn't want him to run

I just posted a link a little further down, along with the quote.

I can tell that YOU know where Clark says he stands on the issues. But I do think there are a lot of people who support him who didn't look any further than his uniform simply because they are intimidated by Bush's silly flight suit.

[KaraokeKarlton]

42. Undecided on Partial Birth Abortion? WTF?

http://www.policy.com/Abortion.htm

I really like this site. It has a load of information on it.

Clark doesn't sound like a progressive candidate to me according to this site.

[Jerseycoa]

55. Stop it

Clark is outright pro-Choice. He has said so many, many, many times. He has had the courage to call the Republicans on late-term abortions, which they choose to call "partial birth." This is a medical procedure that traditionally was based on a call made by a woman and her family in concert with her physician. The question as historically asked by doctors was, "In extreme situations when it comes down to a choice of saving the life of the mother or the child, who would it be?" It was a decision made by families, not by legislators. The answer, pro-lifers decided and the right wing successfully lobbied, was the doctor must be forced to save the child, no matter what the parents wanted, no matter if the mother would be leaving five other motherless kids behind, no matter that it was a medical emergency and not a moral one, no matter that the child may have incredibly serious health issues of its own that makes survival problematic, no matter the emotional battering the entire family, including the "saved" child might endure.

Clark's position could not be more clear:

Reproductive freedom.

I'm pro-choice. The government has no business coming between a woman, her family, and her doctor in making such a personal, private decision. Every woman deserves complete information and access to birth control so that families can be planned and so that every child is a wanted child. I will oppose measures that interfere with the ability of woman and her doctors to make choices about her reproductive health. Clark 04



"Democrat Wesley Clark said yesterday he would never appoint a pro-life judge to the federal bench because the judge’s anti-abortion views would render him unable to follow the established judicial precedent of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision.

<snip>

"During the interview, Clark said, “It’s a hypothetical that is very unlikely to happen because” a judge who follows precedent “is not going to be the kind of person who is going to use his ideology. He’s not going to have an ideology to advance at the expense of the law.”

Regarding his own views on abortion, Clark said, “I’m not going to get into a discussion of when life begins. I’m in favor of choice, period. Pure and simple.

“I don’t think you should get the law involved in abortion,” he said. “It’s between a woman, her doctor, her faith and her family and her conscience. You don’t put the law in there.” Union Leader January 8, 2004

Note: This is pasted from another thread earlier today in which this same point of misinformation was used to misrepresent Wesley Clark's policies.

[KaraokeKarlton]

46. Okay, now this quote of Clarks REALLY pisses me off (about gays)

Talk about gays in military, but don't open the door

Q: Would you open the door for gays to enter the military if you were president of the United States?
CLARK: No. I'd tell the military to re-look at the policy and come back and we'd talk about it.

Source: CNN, Crossfire Aug 1, 2003


http://www.policy.com/2004/Wesley_Clark_Homeland_Security.htm

[Jerseycoa]

66. This really pisses me off (about domestic abuse)

Democrat Howard Dean last night faced a charge of intervening to help a wife abuser in a child-custody case, as polls showed his lead collapsing in both Iowa and New Hampshire.

ABC News reported that in 1997, Dean took the highly unusual step as Vermont governor of intervening in a custody case for state trooper Dennis Madore, who headed his security detail for nine years.

At the behest of Madore's lawyer, a close friend, Dean filed an affidavit claiming the cop was "a firm but gentle disciplinarian" and "a wonderful parent," the report said.

Dean has denied knowing of the abuse, but the wife's lawyer - former Vermont Attorney General Jerry Diamond - said that raises questions about Dean's judgment in inserting himself into the case.

The cop later admitted five separate instances of abuse, and his wife's lawyer said she suffers posttraumatic stress after "years of abuse in which she had been struck, had been pushed, shoved in front of the children."

The trooper's lawyer - Dean pal Phil White - was informed of the abuse charges more than two months before Dean intervened, the report said.

Source: New York Post January 15 2004

[lurk_no_more]

70. So what does dean say about gays in the military?

does he support an open door polocy? I couldn't find any info on his site. I'd like to be pissed off too.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[KaraokeKarlton]

49. Clark doesn't want to rule out nuclear power?

Dean says NO new nuclear plants until disposal of waste can be done safely.

http://www.policy.com/Energy_+_Oil.htm

[KaraokeKarlton]

50. LMAO! Clark said he "wouldn't rule out the Vice Presidency" in Spetember

Would not rule out vice presidency

Clark said that as recently as last week, former president Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) both encouraged him to run, as did many of their close friends. He said the former president initially was cool to the idea but warmed to it as the draft-Clark movement grew. Clark said he never discussed running with Sen. Clinton on the same ticket, however. Clark, who discussed the vice presidency with Dean at a recent meeting, said he would not rule out taking the No. 2 slot on a ticket.

Source: Jim VandeHei, Washington Post, p. A5 Sep 19, 2003

http://www.policy.com/2004/Wesley_Clark_Principles_+_Values.htm

That one cracks me up. :D

[lurk_no_more]

71. That was before he found out

that dean's role model for VP was Dick Cheney. He said he wouldn't be deans Cheney. And that really cracked me up. LOL


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[FubarFly]

52. That's a interesting site KK.

It's a good to see the candidates positions in their own words without the resident spin from the DU spinmeisters. For all the fighting that goes on around here, it's worth noting that Clark and Dean are nearly identical on almost all major issues.

[KaraokeKarlton]

53. No, there are some distinct differences where Dean is clearly better

Dean strongly opposes the ban on partial birth abortion. Clark hasn't made up his mind on the issue yet. Clark also was asked if the government should open the door to gays in the military and he said NO! He then said the military would have to talk about it first. WTF is THAT all about? How on earth can you claim to support gay rights if you won't say you support opening the door to the military to them?

[FubarFly]

54. I agree, I do like Dean better on the issues-

I am a Dean supporter after all, but I'm not a single issue voter by any means. For me, Dean's record actual record of responsible progressive accomplisments- providing health care while balancing a budget, will be far more effective than Clark's presumed foreign policy advantage. Clark's resume will be more easily tarnished than Dean's overall record, although we have a fight on our hands no matter what.

On edit: I believe both are electable, but Clark presents different challanges than Dean does. I am afraid what will happen when Rove gets his "generals lined up in a row". Domestic policy is our strength overall, and it will be much harder to discredit us on that front.

[Jerseycoa]

56. Please see post 55 nt

[Jerseycoa]

57. I guess this site is out of date

It lists:

Presidential candidates:
Al Gore
Ralph Nader
Pat Buchanan
John McCain
Alan Keyes
Steve Forbes
Donald Trump

[returnable]

58. Clark, Clark, Clark

:hi:

[Freddie Stubbs]

68. So do all of the other serious candidates

None of them have come out in favor of this.