Have Kerry & Gephardt Denounced the Attack Ad Yet?

[tsipple]

I haven't heard anything from the Kerry and Gephardt campaigns yet, and I checked their web sites just now.

The story about this disgraceful attack ad, with mug of Osama Bin Laden and attacking a fellow Democrat way below the belt, is all over the newspapers and wire services now. The ad is being run by a group headed by Kerry's and Gephardt's former senior employees, including former Ohio Congressman Edward Feighan. Even the announcer they hired does only Republican and right-wing ads. (He's the same guy that did the voiceovers for all the Arthur DeMoss anti-choice TV ads in the 1990s.)

Have Gephardt and Kerry said anything yet? It's now at least half a day since this story broke.

This one should be really easy and quickly dispatched with a simple, short statement denouncing the ads and this shadowy group that won't reveal its contributors.

(On edit: Changed "former Kerry and Gephardt supporters" to "Kerry's and Gephardt's former senior employees" for accuracy.)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I really hope

that this group and the ad were concocted by the Republicans. It sounds like a divide and conquer strategy that could come from Karl Rove, whose mentor, remember, was Donald Segretti, the Nixon man of dirty tricks fame.

If this was started by Democrats, I hang my head in shame. I certainly hope that Sen. Kerry and Rep. Gephardt, who I have always thought were good, honest gentlemen with some great ideas to help this country, had nothing to do with it.

[Demobrat]

2. I hope so too.

Because I can't vote for them if they did.

[KaraokeKarlton]

3. At least one of them is a supporter of Gephardt

Feighan has contributted $2000 to Gephardt's campaign. Unless Gephardt comes out and announces he is returning that contribution and denounces that ad, he is endorsing it. Same thing for Kerry if Gibbs has contributed to his campaign.

[Demobrat]

4. I don't think Rove gets credit for this one.

Found this on the blog:

Here is the email address for the individual running the ad (Tim Raftis)if you want to tell him what you think

[e-mail]

He's the President and CEO of Windermere Communications Inc.

He is a Democrat - as shown by his past contributions (courtesy of Opensecrets.org):

RAFTIS, TIM L
ORLANDO,FL 32835
WINDERMERE COMMUNICATI
3/20/2002
$1,000
Harkin, Tom

RAFTIS, TIM L
ORLANDO,FL 32835
WINDERMERE COMMUNICATI
3/20/2002
$1,000
Harkin, Tom

RAFTIS, TIM MR
WINDERMERE,IA 34786
RAFTIS & ASSOC/PROFESSIONAL CONSULT
3/26/2002
$1,000
Nagle, David R

RAFTIS, TIMOTHY
WINDERMERE,FL 34786
WINDERMERE COMMUNICATIONS/CEO
3/13/2002
$500
Boswell, Leonard L

RAFTIS, TIMOTHY
WINDERMERE,FL 34786
WINDERMERE COMM
4/18/2002
$500
Pryor, Mark



And one of his apparent relatives (probably wife)

RAFTIS, MARIAN
ORLANDO,FL 32835
HOMEMAKER
3/20/2002
$1,000
Harkin, Tom

RAFTIS, MARIAN
ORLANDO,FL 32835
HOMEMAKER
3/20/2002
$1,000
Harkin, Tom


He apparently has a very anti-Dean agenda; just don't know why or who he is supporting (yet)

[KaraokeKarlton]

10. He actually stepped down as president of the group

The new president is someone who has donated $2000 to Gephardt for his presidential campaign. Feighan (sp?) from Ohio is the new president.

[helleborient]

5. Without denouncement from Kerry and Gephardt...

A vote for either one of them if they are the nominee is seriously in doubt from this Democrat. The ad invoking Osama Bin Laden as a fear tactic is obscene.

[dfong63]

6. question: if someone came up with such an ad with Bush as the subject,

... comparing Bush to Osama, and so on... would the TV stations have even run it?

[ludwigb]

7. Link?

[tsipple]

8. Careful. You'll Need to Disinfect.

http://www.progressivevalues.com

[Fleshdancer]

9. Good question

I'll be waiting all day for them to do so. In the mean time, feel free to give the President of Americans for Jobs, Healthcare, and "Progressive" Values a Christmas card. :evilgrin:

Edward Feighan
Chairman and CEO of ProCentury Insurance Group
[phone]

Home Address
12500 Edgewater Drive
Lakewood, OH
[phone]

[sandnsea]

11. Dean is running the ads

They aren't being run in NH because Dean thinks he's got it locked.

The ads focus on Dean's three weaknesses, taxes, NRA, and terrorism. The NRA being in the Democratic Party, the others with everybody. Running the ads serves two purposes. One, it throws out the objections before the opposition can. Answer objections before they're asked to take them out of play. That's sales 101. The second is that it keeps Deanie anger against the "establishment" and keeps the focus on that anger instead of the issues.

This argument is just as valid, if not more valid, than any innuendo that Dean has made against Kerry & Gephardt. In fact, his jumping to slander Gepahrdt & Kerry without any facts furthers my argument. And it's just as sleazy as the ads to begin with.

[helleborient]

12. Again...Gephardt and Kerry can condemn the ads...

Why wouldn't they?

[sandnsea]

24. What has Dean ever condemned?

He ran a year long campaign almost entirely on beating up Democrats. The ads are beating him up. What's the difference?

[UnapologeticLiberal]

13. Is this an anti-Dean ad?

Kerry and Gephardt's former employees are running an ad against Dean that features images of Osama bin Laden?

[Fleshdancer]

14. Yep.

Here's the text of the ad:

“We live in a very dangerous world. And there are those who wake up every morning determined to destroy western civilization. Americans want a President who can face the dangers ahead. But Howard Dean has no military or foreign policy experience. And Howard Dean just cannot compete with George Bush on foreign policy. It’s time for Democrats to think about that… and think about it now.”

Add this to large pictures of Osama with the doom and gloom music on and you've got one nasty attack ad...because apparently a vote for Dean = death by those who are determined to destroy Western civilization. Vote for Dean and DIE! Vote for Dean and watch terrorism destroy everything!!!! bwahahahahahahahahah!!!! :eyes:

Because apparently when Bush leaves office, he's going to take the entire military and intelligence agencies with him. We will have nothing and it's all because Howard Dean didn't bomb shit up in Vietnam and because he decided to be a Governor instead of Senator. Yep. That's the logic. Damn you Dean for wanting to get us all killed!!! *wildly shakes fist in air* :mad:

[MichDem10]

19. Maybe...

Governor Dean should spend some of his $20 million to respond to this attack!! :toast:

[tsipple]

15. Kick for Kerry's & Gephardt's Attention

:kick:

This one should be really easy -- just a short statement of about two sentences -- and it's now 24 hours past. What's going on?

[molly]

16. Has Dean unsealed his records yet?

[tsipple]

17. He Doesn't Have Any Records

The State of Vermont does, though. Dean is a private citizen now, so he has no control over what state officials do with state-owned records in state custody.

Judicial Watch sued the State of Vermont (and its officials) to open the portion of the official records, created during Dean's service as governor, that are under seal. A judge will review the records and release those that should not be sealed for personal privacy reasons. Dean is not contesting this lawsuit. (His standing is probably limited anyhow.)

My question still stands, though. The silence from Boston and St. Louis is deafening with what should be the easiest press release of the campaign season for these two men.

(On edit: Clarified that only a portion of the state records are sealed for 10 years.)

[Fleshdancer]

18. A neutral Judge will be doing the honors

As far as the timeline on that goes, you would have to ask the State of Vermont.

BTW, Do you know what percentage of the records are sealed?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. This is the 2nd time I've directed you here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=96196&mesg_id=96196&page=


Maybe this time you'll contribute. Not banking on it though.

[cindyw]

20. Who cares. It's not their jobs to defend Dean. He needs to toughenup.

See that Eric? Dean is NOT toughenough obviously.

Did Dean defend Kerry when he was called French looking? Did Dean defend the Democrats when they were called "Cock.....whoops, HE SAID THAT HIMSELF.

Dean has gotten this far himself. He's on his own now.

[tsipple]

21. Spreading Disinformation, Are We?

(Sigh. This is too easy.)

OK, here's the original source quote from the New York Times. Please read it.

Howard Dean, who is increasingly giving his presidential candidacy an anti-Washington cast, cranked up his rhetoric on Tuesday, saying that if he won, members of Congress were “going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches.”

Note the following carefully:

1. Dean did not call any Democrats cockroaches. The word "Democrat" is nowhere to be found.

2. Dean did not call anyone cockroaches. He did say (some? all? two?) members of Congress were going to scurry for shelter like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches.

3. With the exception of about 300 people in Washington -- mainly Republicans and a few bad apple Democrats serving in Congress -- everybody in America is saying, "Rock on, Dean!" It's a great line, especially given the unstated allusion to Texas insect exterminator Tom DeLay, Republican leader in the House.

[MichDem10]

23. Wow! Howard talks like...

A Bush Clone!!

Howard Dean, who is increasingly giving his presidential candidacy an anti-Washington cast, cranked up his rhetoric on Tuesday, saying that if he won, members of Congress were “going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches.”

Open mouth, insert foot, shoot from the mouth cowboy! :freak:

[tsipple]

25. I Love It, America Loves It...

...and welcome to DU, MichDem10. :hi:

[Fleshdancer]

26. whaa???

You mean to tell me that analogies are different from metephors??

:)

[tsipple]

22. Re: "It's not their jobs to defend Dean."

No, it's not.

But it is their job to defend the Democratic Party and the culture of civil debate in America. Especially if individuals with close and recent ties to their campaigns undertake this disgusting behavior.

This ad assaults the entire Democratic Party and undermines civil debate.

Issuing simple, straightforward, official denunciations of this advertising is not about helping Dean. It's about John Kerry helping John Kerry and his party. It's about Dick Gephardt helping Dick Gephardt and his party. It's about showing they're grown-ups entitled to the office of President of the United States. And it's about showing grace and class. It helps them.

Sadly, apparently they can't see that yet. I'm disappointed.

[sandnsea]

27. Dean's been assaulting the Democrats

He's been doing it for a year. He's been lying to do it. Just because you agree with Dean doesn't mean every Democrat does. Clearly the polls show most don't because most aren't supporting Dean. Saying Democrats stood with Bush on his unilateral war is just as wrong as saying Dean stands with Osama.

[helleborient]

29. Brave face when other candidates campaigns are crumbling...

And Dean is nearing 50% in New Hampshire and Iowa with one of the latest polls NATIONALLY showing him with 24% to second place 12% and nearly a majority of DNC members now supporting Dean.

Kerry's campaign started crumbling long ago, as I'm sure you're aware. Dean is the ONLY candidate who has shown sustained growth in support for the past year.

Live with it, deal with it, and we hope you support the Democratic nominee when it's determined.

[tsipple]

30. Missing the Point Again

First of all, take a look at this request by several prominent bloggers. Kerry and Gephardt would do well to listen.

But let's assume you're correct about Dean. (I don't assume that, certainly. But let's accept your premise for a nanosecond for sake of argument.)

What has that got to do with the behavior Kerry and Gephardt need to exhibit now? I was taught in second grade that two wrongs don't make a right.

Like I said, this one is the easiest press release ever. Two seconds and done. It would be good for them, good for the party, and good for America. And yet, they remain silent. It's sad and disappointing.

[sandnsea]

32. Are you still attacking Democrats?

With no proof of wrong doing? The same kind of smears that Dean has ran his campaign on all year. The only wrong is from Dean. He should stop smearing candidates with no proof.

[helleborient]

33. Actually more representative of Kerry's partisan immaturity...

The entire campaign.

Simple...denounce the ads and it's over.

Dont' denounce the ads and deal with suspicion that doesn't die.

[tsipple]

34. Exactly

Simple...denounce the ads and it's over. Don't denounce the ads and deal with suspicion that doesn't die.

The Kerry and Gephardt campaigns have been asked for something short and utterly simple: tell us you find these hate ads unacceptable.

They can even do it today when there's nobody paying attention (with all the Saddam news). Just a short, quiet, two sentence statement from each camp would bury this thing.

And they're silent. What are they thinking in Boston and St. Louis?

[sandnsea]

35. Dean should denounce his lies

He's been lying from day one. Accusing Kerry and Gephardt of being behind ads that nobody has even seen on television is pure sleaze. We're going to lose next year. There's no uniting the party after all of Dean's accusations, innuendo, outright lies and whining. 8 other candidates have supporters who are pissed at Dean and his bullshit. Why can everybody else see it except Deanie's?

[helleborient]

36. Perhaps because Dean continues to gain support and Kerry loses

Support at an alarming rate.

If Kerry wants to destroy his reputation, I suppose that is up to him.

It seems from his comments about the capture of Saddam, Dean supporters were correct about Kerry's support of the war all along...particularly that he will take whatever position is most politically expedient. Back off on support of the war when the public is doubtful and opponents are gaining...reiterate support when the public opinion for Bush goes up.

Go ahead and tie your support to the president, Mr. Kerry, you'll not gain any support for the nomination from this lifelong Democrat.

[zulchzulu]

41. Should Kerry admit to something HE DIDN'T DO to make you happy?

[sandnsea]

28. Or when Kerry said Bush was "amateur hour"

JULY 2002

"I think the administration has behaved quite clumsily and haphazardly on a lot of foreign policy fronts," Kerry said in an interview with editors and reporters."

"It's a most incredible display in my judgment of a kind of amateur hour, and the reason is there is no one person in charge," Kerry said. "Colin Powell is not being allowed to be secretary of state, in my judgment. They restrain him."

http://www.dawn.com/2002/07/19/int3.htm

"GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that."

Tim Russert, July 2002 What a spine!!!!!

[Fleshdancer]

37. Just imagine for one brief moment...

How would Kerry respond if a new, secretive organization was created with the sole purpose of running negative Kerry ads that equated voting for Kerry with Osama Bin Laden killing Western civilization? Or using Kerry's Iraqi War Resolution vote as a way to portray him as weak?

Suppose, just for one second, this hypothetical organization consisted of an ex-Dean campaign staffer and contributors from a different Democratic candidate...for the sake of argument, let's say the contributors supported Clark. How would the Kerry campaign react? Would Kerry want Dean and Clark to denounce this organization and the ad?

Wouldn't Kerry supporters be highly suspicious of Dean and Clark if they refused to do just one little thing...denounce the organization?

Supporters of other candidates would be flat out lying to themselves if they thought they would react differently...especially here on DU. Nasty things are said about Dean without the Dean campaign having ex-staffers involved in crap like this, just imagine the hell unleashed if the shoe was on the other foot. :eyes:

Oh well. I guess this is just another price that has to be paid for being the frontrunner.

[helleborient]

38. Of course, Dean hasn't done anything like this...no suspicion either...

No ex-Dean workers involved in anything like this.

The suspicion just hangs around when you don't deny something.

[tsipple]

39. Of Course

There are certain principles that transcend political jockeying.

[zulchzulu]

40. Has Dean admitted he's a liar about his views on IWR yet?

By the way, I agreed with the message in the ads.

They was spot on about how Dean is not the one to run.

Dean can make ads where he lies about always being against the war and attacks the other candidates for political gain, so this is just a taste of his own medicine.

Stop being freakin' crybabies.

[jadesfire]

42. Kerry said he had nothing to do with it

and does not condone it.

[tsipple]

43. That's Fantastic!

Do you have a link to Kerry's statement? Also, do you know if Gephardt made a similar statement (and if there's a link to that)?