A Dance with Dragons discussion/ramblings (spoiler warning)

[NewJeffCT]

OK, just finished up the book. A lot better than A Feast for Crows.

I'm pretty sure Jon Snow is not dead - he'll be inside Ghost as a warg, but not sure how he'll come back unless Melisandre raises his body from the dead.

So, two Jamie Lannister chapters and then he disappears from the book with a few hundred pages to go with Brienne? He was becoming a likeable character. Is it really the Hound, or was it the Lemon guy with the Hound's helm?

No Bran Stark for the end, either. He was there for a while. Where is the Arya storyline going? (Sansa was becoming interesting, but no Sansa, either)

Do you believe Ramsay Snow/Bolton's letter to Jon? The info on Mance and the 6 spear wives was chilling - I might have thought it lies otherwise.

Barristan Selmy rocks! I hope if Martin kills him off, he at least gets a death worthy of a knight of his stature.

The first 3 books generally had clear endings - A Storm of Swords ends with Tyrion killing his father and leaving town,Jon Snow being elected Lord Commander and Dany deciding she is going to rule Meereen for a while.

This book has Snow dying, Tyrion joining the second sons, and Dany getting approached by the Dothraki. Not quite the same.

Also, the corpses the Yunkai fling at Meereen via trebuchet - are they the hostages, or are they plague filled bodies meant to spread disease inside the walls? it was never clear, but the Green Grace did say that was Yunkai's response.

[PassingFair]

1. Thanks for the spoilers....(kidding)

I am reading "A Feast for Crows" right now, and it seems
like the characters are basically just wandering around....

The last book, "Storm of Swords" really ended with
a FLURRY of interesting activity, especially Edmure
Tully's wedding! It was my favorite book so far, especially
the last half.



:wow:

I can't believe that we have to wait 210 days to
see the TV series pick up again.

:cry:

[Hayabusa]

2. Two books away...

And I've been partially spoilered rotten, especially about said Edmure Tully's wedding... I can't wait until the DVD set comes out. I don't have HBO so I only got to see one episode (hurray free preview weekend!)

Sad thing is that I may have to wait to read ADWD, since I can't really justifying paying that much for the hardcover at the moment. (Yes, says the guy who blew $100 on a library sale...) I did get Storm of Swords and Feast For Crows HCs at the sale, though...

[NewJeffCT]

3. Try the library

if you can.

I only saw 2 1/4 episodes of the TV show - I'll have to wait for DVD.

[Hayabusa]

21. I'll try that

and get the paperback when it comes out.

2 1/4? What's the cause for the quarter?

[NewJeffCT]

22. We didn't pay for HBO

so, I saw the premiere of Game of Thrones on a Dish Network free HBO weekend.

I also saw the finale of A Game of Thrones in a similar fashion.

And, once, when we were on vacation, I saw about 15 minutes of another episode, which amounts to about 1/4 of an episode.

So, I only saw 2.25 episodes of the 10 episode season.

[NewJeffCT]

14. and, even the second time through the Red Wedding

it's still very powerful, especially since it's a Catelyn chapter, followed immediately by Arya chapter as she arrives.

[FloridaJudy]

4. He may have left an escape clause for Jon

At least, I hope so. The Stark kids have a telepathic connection to their direwolves: Snow's consciousness could continue in Ghost. Or maybe the wolf shows up at the last minute to kill his attackers. People have recovered from what seem like fatal wounds before in the series.

I wouldn't worry about Dany. She's got a fucking dragon guarding her back! No Dothraki are going to mess with her, and if they do, they're toast. Literally.

"Dance" leaves a whole lot of loose ends. I'd gotten rather attached to Samwell - probably not a wise idea for any characters in "Fire and Ice', including the main ones! I'd really like to know if he makes a Maester. And Sansa's cousin, Robert, went from being a budding monster to become a very sad, very sick, very scared boy. I think if he's allowed to live long enough Sansa could humanize him. And who is the dead man guiding Bran? Is it Benjen? I'm left with even more questions after finishing the book!

GRRM takes a lot of his plots from real European history, so I suspect the Yunkai are catapulting the corpses of plague victims into Meereen, much as the Mongols were said to have done at the siege of Caffa in 1346.

[cemaphonic]

6. Yeah, no chance Jon stays dead

Between all of the foreshadowing and narrative weight behind Jon, and the various established mechanisms for bringing him back, he's not out of the story yet.

I don't see Sam becoming a maester in the time remaining, though he will probably be on the way. Seems more likely, he'll go to Oldtown and get involved in whatever plot Jaqen H’ghar is up to.

[NewJeffCT]

7. true

The whole prologue with Sixskins was, to me, foreshadowing Jon.

[NewJeffCT]

11. and, the epilogue

with Kevan Lannister & Varys was interesting, to say the least, not to mention the news that the Iron Throne knows about the return of Connington and somebody at least claiming to be Aegon Targaryen. (That was quite a twist in the book)

That was another cliffhanger - Connington, Aegon and the Golden Company attacking Storm's End.

And, the Red Wedding was inspired by the Black Dinner...

Murder of the Douglas chiefs at Edinburgh Castle

The Douglases became so powerful that by the early fifteenth century they were seen as a threat to the stability of the nation. In 1440 the young William Douglas, 6th Earl of Douglas and his brother were invited to dine with the ten year-old King James II of Scotland. The dinner was organised by Sir William Crichton of Clan Crichton. Known as the Black Dinner, a black bull's head, the symbol of death, was brought in. After the dinner the Douglas chiefs were dragged out to Castle Hill, given a mock trial and beheaded. The Clan Douglas then laid siege to Edinburgh Castle. Crichton perceiving the danger surrendered the castle to the King was raised to the title of Lord Crichton. It is still unclear exactly who else was ultimately responsible, though it is thought Crichton, Livingstone and Buchan as likely candidates.<2><3><4>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Douglas

[FloridaJudy]

15. And it's likely the odious King Joffrey

Was inspired by Henry VI's son Edward, Prince of Wales, another bloodthirsty, psychotic scion who was encouraged by a domineering mother to be completely ruthless. Edward died in battle - unlike Joffrey - but it was reported that the circumstances were suspicious.

I must admit I always feel a bit confused when reading about the War of the Roses because almost all the men involved were called either Henry, Richard, or Edward, and there were several of each. Thank goodness Martin makes the characters a bit more distinctive!

[NewJeffCT]

17. well, with some of the historical figures

it does get a bit confusing - Bran Stark, then Bran 'the Builder' Stark and another Bran Stark, then Ben Stark, Benjen Stark, the Karstarks, Lyanna Stark, Rickard Stark, (and Rickard Karstark)and I think there was another female Stark as well.

Or, Jeor Mormont, Jorah Mormont, Aly Mormont, Maege Mormont, etc

Not to mention the Snows (Ramsay/John), Rivers', Storms, Sands, etc running around.

[Duer 157099]

5. Here's what I want to know

I'm not finished with ADWD yet, but I'm wondering who Coldhands is, if it is even revealed.

Is it Benjen Stark? Mormont? Any ideas?

[NewJeffCT]

8. not revealed

Plus, I think Bran would recognize his uncle, and Sam would have known Mormont.

[Duer 157099]

18. But his face was all wrapped up

I think it's Benjen.

[NewJeffCT]

19. good point

Could be possible.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. I wish we had seen more of Lady Stoneheart.

She deserves to know that some of her family is still alive and well.

[NewJeffCT]

10. Was she in there at all?

Obviously, Brienne is taking Jamie to meet her... but, we're left hanging on that one.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. I think she was just mentioned. I can't remember if she was "speaking" in this or the last book.

I imagine having a slit throat makes talking difficult.

In some respects, she was the catalyst for a lot of bad crap, but GRRM takes it a bit far at times.

[TK421]

12. I feel so alone in all this...having never read this series!

And I am just getting into J.A Salvatore books! GODDAMNIT!!!

[NewJeffCT]

13. you mean RA Salvatore?

the guy who writes the Drizz't books?

If you didn't know, RA Salvatore posts over on Daily Kos.

[TK421]

20. oops,yeah, thats him. Drizz't is one badass drow!