Question for all DU guitarists...

[EOTE]

I'm a newbie to the whole guitar scene. Last week I picked up an Ovation Celebrity CC026 Acoustic/electric. I'm happy with how it sounds as an unplugged acoustic, but I'm planning on getting a decent amp to go along with it in the near future.

I'm interested in seeing how closely to an electric I can get it to sound. A friend of mine recommended an Ibanez TS9 Tube Screamer in conjunction with a decent acoustic amp. He also said that I could get a standalone acoustic amp with distortion built in that would give me an approximation of the electric sound I'm looking for.

I've already spent 450 on the guitar and accessories, so I don't want to spend too much more on the amp and pedal, figure 250 bucks max (and I have no problem purchasing used equipment).

So my question is what would you recommend as a good amp or amp and pedal combo to make my guitar sound as close to a real electric as possible? And oh, I would still like to be able to play it as an amped acoustic too.

[ProfessorGAC]

1. Depends On How Much You Want To Spend

I think the best distortion unit for the money is the Boss OD-1 Distortion. I regularly see them for $39. My guitar player uses one and sets his Boogie to a fairly clean, but full bodied tone. When the distortion unit is on, the sound is huge. I'd recommend against the Tube Screamer. I think the tone is too brittle. That's going to be worse if you put an acoustic through it.

If you're using a distortion unit, it might not matter about the amp as much. I'd suggest a Fender Acoustic Amp. They're clean and full sounding, and have built in chorus. Then, with a distortion pedal you'd have a broad tone.

Another real impressive cheap amp is the Crate. You can get a 20 or 25 watt amp with built in distortion for well under $200. The distortion is surprisingly smooth for a solid state amp.

One caution: Be careful about volume if you try to play an acoustic with distortion. That can cause unmanageable feedback problems.
The Professor

[EOTE]

4. Great, thanks for the advice.

So, of those two options you listed, the Boss/Fender combo or the integrated Crate, which do you believe would provide the closest sound to an electric? At my local Guitar Center, I was recommended a used Crate amp for 200 bucks. Not sure as to the wattage, but it had a 10" driver. The convenience of having a pedal is not such a big deal for me as I don't anticipate needing to switch on the fly.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. Again WIth My Guitar Player!

He has a little 8 watt Crate practice amp that he uses at home to play while watching TV. The thing sounds really good for a $90 amp. Not very loud, but certainly enough for practicing, running scales and messing around with ideas.

Just for simplicity, since everything would be solid state anyway, i'd check out the Crate. No extra cables, no batteries or wall-warts, no extra floor space needed.

Just one plug and a cable. Boom, done!

The Crate amp probably lets you switch with the push of one button, even if it's not a floor switch. It would still take 1 second to go from clean to grind.

The 10" might be a bit of problem for getting a really rich acoustic tone, although it will have more life than an amp with a bigger speaker. I play my acoustic through my keyboard rig, so the signal is balanced through a mixer first, and is then amplified by a 300watt amp into a 3 way cabinet. Now THAT sounds cool. But i spent a heck of a lot more than $200 for that setup.

If it were me and i wasn't worried about an ideal acoustic tone, i'd go with the Crate.
The Professor

[oustemnow]

32. ProCo Rat for the distortion pedal and a Solveg combo for the amp

just my .02

and you should dfeinitely check out www.musiciansfriend.com for deals on gear.

[CBGLuthier]

2. And if you want to spend a lot of money

Get you one of the amp modeling pedal boards that range from $100 to $400.

I have an Ovation Celebrity also. It can sound pretty cool through an amp modeler board although my electric sounds better.

Bottom line is, practice something you can demo with until you can play it without fear then take guitar into music shop and try things till you get what you like.

[EOTE]

5. Amp modeling pedal boards?

I'm not quite familiar with those. Can you recommend a brand name? As I said, I'd like to keep a 250 buck limit on my purchase.

[Trajan]

13. The POD is great .... But THESE are what you need ! ...

The POD is the granddaddy of Amp Modelling units, and I love mine ..... it costs at least 250.00 new (on sale) .... which places it out of your stated range ....

BUT: .... If you use a PA, the modelling boxes, like the POD, can be used directly into whereever you might plug in a microphone .... it doesnt require an overdriven guitar amp to be useful to an 'acoustic' guitarist ... a home sound system amp can also be used, if powerful enough, and if you are only practicing at home ....

In other words, you really DONT need to buy a guitar amp if you use a modelling unit ..... and you have access to a PA or a home stereo ...

Heck, ... you dont even have to use an AMP: .... headphones are a HUGE boon to beginning guitarists .... chuckles ....

But if you REALLY want an amp and pedal, ... here are my choices ...

PLEASE note: ... the 250.00 limit also limits tone quality ....


This first thing is a modelling box, .. the Johnson J-Station Modelling Preamp ... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030815084115067073057042297492/g=guitar/search/detail/base_id/42689

This box lists at 449.00, and is normally 250.00, ... but is ON SALE for $ 90 DUCKETTS ! ... a GREAT deal ..... This unit has FREE SHIPPING right now too ....

-snip-

A roomful of amplifiers in one small box!

Not only does the J-Station provide 18 choices of amp models, bass amp models, and acoustic guitar models, but it does so with remarkable accuracy. It also offers fully programmable effects including multiple reverbs; digital, pong, and analog delays; compression; wah; gate; chorus; flanger; phaser; tremolo; rotary speaker; and more. It has selectable cabinet modeling, a Windows-based editor/librarian, S/PDIF digital output, full MIDI implementation, remote foot control options, and dry track output routing. The tone controls emulate the authentic EQ points of the selected amp model. 24-bit A/D-D/A converters. 44.1kHz sampling frequency.

Features:

18 authentic amp models
Programmable effects
Selectable cab modeling
Windows-based editor/librarian
S/PDIF digital out
MIDI

-snip-

Now: .. combine this with: ... a guitar amplifier ....

The 'Drive G65-DSP Guitar Combo' ... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030815084115067073057042297492/g=guitar/search/detail/base_id/84781

At 149.00, this amp is fairly comparable to the Crate 65 watter, but at 100.00 less .... This unit does NOT have free shipping, so it would actually cost about 20.00 for shipping: .. even then: .. you are approx at the 250.00 limit for both pieces ....

-snip-

Its got everything the gigging musician needs: 65W of power to drive a 12" speaker, DSP effects (chorus, flange, delay, and reverb), and a footswitch jack for channel and effects selection. It gives you a clean channel with volume, and a lead channel with gain and volume. It also has 3 bands of EQ plus presence and effects level knobs; an effects send/return; and a headphone jack. Fully equipped and bargain priced.

Features:

65W of power
12" speaker
DSP effects (chorus, flange, delay, and reverb)
Footswitch jack for channel and effects selection
Clean channel with volume
Lead channel with gain and volume
3-bands of EQ
Presence and effects level knobs
Effects send/return
Headphone jack

-snip-


With this combination: ..... you have extreme flexability: ... you can use the amp alone, you can use the amp with the modelling box, you can use the amp with a future ELECTRIC guitar and play with others on a stage ... (as long as others willingly balance their larger amps ... ) ... you can also just use the modelling box, with a PA, with a home stereo for practice, or just with headphones ..... or you can use the modelling box as a recording preamp, plugging it directly into a mixer board ....

As you can see: ... you can use any/or combinations with these two devices: ..... and at:

150.00
+ 90.00
======
240.00

You are DEFINITELY in the ballpark ....

(add 20 for shipping ... Im SURE you can find an extra 10 dollars .... right ?? ... )


I think this is SUCH a good deal .... hell: .. I may have to scrape up da cash ....

Goodluck ...

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Have You Heard the Crate?

Man, i am most impressed with those amps for the money. Most low cost amps have really terrible distortion tones. Really brittle and gritty. The Crate is impressively smooth while fully saturated. I recommend those amps to all beginners or early intermediate players.
The Professor

[Trajan]

20. Yeah .. they are ....

We bought our budding guitarist daughter the 65 watt Crate model MX65R ( http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030815084115067073057042297492/g=guitar/search/detail/base_id/53012 ), and it DEFINITELY has a decently smooth tone: .... they use a simulation technology called "Flexwave" which allegedly simulates a tube pre-amp, ... Whether it does THAT, I doubt ... but it is a great amp for the price ...

[EOTE]

17. Thanks...

I'll definitely check that out. So much info to go through. I've got some homework to do I guess. I knew I could count on you guys.

[ProfessorGAC]

8. I've Got A Modeling Pedal, Too!

I'd highly recommend the Korg AX-100. Only about $150 and has really good tone and lots of good time effects.

I don't use it much anymore, since i bought my Boogie a couple of years ago. But, i still run it through the effects loop for the digital reverb, delay, and chorus.

The only reason i didn't bring it up in the first place, is EOTE said he wanted to spend $250 tops, and that wouldn't leave a whole lot for the amp.

I've become on who believes that everything starts with the amp. I made the mistake of trying to get the sounds in my head with toys, rather than just buying the amp that would get it. 4 amps, and 4 effects systems later, i learned that the amp is the critical element.

Now, i just use the amp with switchable chorus, a little slap, and some reverb. One setting for clean; one for saturated. The modeling section is completely turned off.

But, that AX-100 is a pretty good device for the $.
The Professor

[EOTE]

9. Thanks again Professor.

And thanks a bunch to everyone who responded. This info will be invaluable. I'm probably going to go to The Guitar Center and see what type of effects I can get for around a 200 buck amp. If none satisfy, I'll see how the Boss OD-1 sounds with a few amp combinations. The modeling pedal sounds like a good idea, but it would probably push things a bit out of my budget. Maybe that would be a good idea for later. I tend to agree with the Professor that amp quality should take precedence.

Thanks again to everyone for your advice. As I said before, I'm a newbie to guitars and this can be somewhat intimidating.

[DUreader]

3. I got a great electric sound using a 'rat' pedal with ...

a fender princeton reverb amp

that amp may be hard to find now , I have not kept up

[EOTE]

10. I checked on Ebay....

600 bucks, ouch! But again, this might be something for next summer. Thanks.

[Hegemony Cricket]

7. POD, Fulltone

Fulltone makes a great series of solid state pedals.

However, for pure variety of amps, cabinets, over drives and other FX you should go straight for a Line6 POD...each of these units falls within your price range and will provide you with the greatest variety of tweakable tones for the beginner or expert (great introduction to the world of Amps and Cabinets without having to buy them all):

The Straight Pod 2.0...the standard and a really good unit:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030815081737004065018107294022/g=home/search/detail/base_id/43610

The Guitar Port is a less expensive guitar amp modeler that allows you to plug straight into your CP via the USB port:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030815081737004065018107294022/g=home/search/detail/base_id/58984

However, if you absolutely must have a pedal, Line6 makes a good Guitar amp modeler stomp box:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030815081737004065018107294022/g=home/search/detail/base_id/89102

[EOTE]

11. Interesting...

Now with the first two devices I'd be restricted to being close to my computer right? These don't seem to be standalone devices. Are these more devices geared towards recording or playing?

[leftofthedial]

12. the tube screamer will give you an overdriven

electric-ish sound;

You might also find a Fender Princeton amp used (probably about $100).

It has a clean channel that sounds pretty good for acoustic and another channel that has overdrive built into it. It also has built in chorus. You can get a decent electric guitar sound with this as well.

This is not the ultimate guitar amp, but it is a good one in your price range.

The Line6 Pod pedals can give you pretty much any guitar sound you want.

[Eat_The_Rich]

15. For Now...

Because you say you are new to the guitar scene, I think the Crate amp suggested earlier is a good choice. Don't spend too much money. There is a lot of high priced crap out there. After you have played for several years and your ear becomes more sophisticated, then shell out the money for a really good amp and guitar. I don't play much acoustic myself, but if you find yourself in the market for an electric, here are my suggestions:
Guitar-any or all of the following: Les Paul (SG, Junior or Standard), Fender (Telecaster or Stratocaster) The older, the better.
Amplifier: Marshall 50w Smallbox head (1970 or earlier) with a 4 x 12 bottom loaded with 25w Greenbacks, and/or a Vox AC30.
Effects: Ibanez TS-9 Tube Screamer. Any good compressor.

You don't need anything else. I have played them all, Mesa, Fender, Peavey, Crate Marshall, Vox, Modeling amps, pods, etc. I always come back to the basics.

I will also note that guitar tone is a matter of taste. I can't stand the super distorted tone that is the norm for most rock/alternative music these days. To me it sounds like tin cans going through a metal shredder.

[RetroLounge]

16. I have to ask...

Why not just buy an Electric Guitar?

[EOTE]

18. Well....

I want to play acoustic too. In fact, the majority of the stuff I want to play is acoustic. I'd just like to learn some electric as well. I guess I'd like to come as close to possible as having the best of both worlds while staying within my budget.

[RetroLounge]

21. I would suggest taking the guitar to the store

and play it alot thru many amps and effects, that way you can test drive your sound without spending a penny until you are sure of what you want.

I can't make any suggestions, brand-wise.

I have a Les Paul Custom and I always played it thru a Marshall 100w Stack, volume on 11...

[Trajan]

23. Les Paul Custom and Marshall 100 watt stack ....

Les Paul Custom = approximately 2500.00

Marshall "stack" = approx. 2000.00 (I presume a half stack)

Total ... 4500.00 .....

[RetroLounge]

24. Les Paul Custom and Marshall 100 watt stack

Les Paul Custom = approximately $600.00 when I bought it new in 1979.

Marshall "stack" = approx. $500.00 for the head, when I bought it new. I never bought the bottom, I always borrowed someone elses.

Total ... 1100.00 in 1979 Dollars.

Sold the 1/2 stack mnay years ago (for huge profit).

Kept the guitar, of course.

By the way, I wasn't suggesting he buy what I had. My point was I know nothing about today's equipment...

[RetroLounge]

19. Just an observation about Ovation Guitars

for anyone who may not be aware.

They are made by Kaman Corp. Owned by Kaman Aerospace. Huge defense contractor, makes Helicopters to rain death from above down on the enemy, whoever that may be.

Just an FYI for anyone interested.

(p.s. They are very nice guitars, too.)

[EOTE]

22. You just had to ruin my day didn't you?

Oh well, hopefully the good from my purchase will help neutralize the any damage the chopper I help to create makes.

[RetroLounge]

25. Sorry... Didn't mean to ruin anyone's day.

and yes, buying and playing a guitar ALWAYS adds positive Karma to the universe.

B-)

[Zuni]

26. If you had more money

I would recommend the Line 6 Amp, which has digital tone changing equitment.
For $250 I would recommend a Fender Amp, which have always been my favorites.
If you mean distortion by 'electric' sound, then a pedal would be your best bet.
Good choice on the Ovation, although they (I am not sure if this is just the traditional model because the only acoustic electrics I hyave seen have had straight backs) often have rounded backs that make them hard to play when balancing them on your knee.

[EOTE]

27. Yeah, it has a rounded back....

Fiberglass. I like it for a few reasons. First of all, it's very light, which isn't a huge plus, but it's nice for maneuverability. Second, it's thinner than almost every other acoustic/electric I've played while still sounding loud and open like a nice acoustic. Third, I think it looks wicked cool, especially when viewed from the side. I have no problem with the rounded back. In fact, it balances quite nicely on my knee when sitting down. When standing up, the thinness of the body compliments my gut quite nicely.

[EOTE]

29. Update, I got my amp!

I spent a good time at The Guitar Center after work. I tried many different combos and standalone amps. I finally decided on the Line6 Spider 112. It's a 50 watt 12", with tons of effects. I'm very happy with it, but in the insane, grind and even occasionally blues mode, I find myself fighting the feedback. I guess that's something you learn to do. At 299, it was more than I wanted to spend, but it's got all the volume and features I'm ever going to need. There's a four channel pedal available for it I might get in the future. All in all, I'm very happy with it. Thanks again for all of your help.

[leftofthedial]

34. congrats

Line 6 does some good things.


Have a blast and never stop playing!

[mitchum]

28. DO NOT BUY A SOLID-STATE AMP!

They are garbage. Buy a small tube amp. Pedals: The TS-9 will give you a warm overdriven sound, while a RAT pedal is better for heavy tones (I use both as the situation warrants)

[tarkus]

30. You forgot one thing...

Roland Jc-120 amplifiers are the best amplifiers made.

[oustemnow]

33. ugh; I had a JC-120 for a while

I really liked the clean, pretty sound for about six months, then grew tired of the general thin-ness of the tone.

[leftofthedial]

31. dude is playing an Ovation

a solid state amp would be fine for him.

As he learns he'll figure out what he likes.

[retread]

35. If you want to play a guitar, get a metronome , a good

book of scales and chords for guitar and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
Learn the instrument first.
On the other hand, if you just want to make noise go for the gear first.