Ouch. Anyone familiar with military drug tests?

[Xithras]

Three weeks ago, a friends son sparked up a joint with a couple of friends after prom. He's a pretty straight laced kid, and he is saying that he'd never done it before or since, and that he only took one deep hit before giving it up to a friend. He admits that he got a bit light headed from it, and the secondhand smoke in the car, but swears that's the extent of his pot use. I smoke a little on occasion, and I've known this kid since he was in diapers, and I BELIEVE him. He's not a pothead.

Fast forward to last week. He's been wanting to join the National Guard for years (he has relatives in the Guard), and went in to take his MEPS. As you might have guessed, they detected his pot use and rejected his enlistment.

The recruiter is now saying that the military offers NO retests on the MEPS, and that a single failure for drug use disqualifies you from military service FOR LIFE. No appeals. No do-overs.

Is this correct? I know that recruiters can occasionally be full of it, so I'm not sure if the recruiter is telling the truth, or is just pissed off that the kid wasted his time (they did home visits and everything with the recruiter). The kid, who has been looking forward to joining for quite some time, is devastated that he might be banned for life...at 18 years old...because of one stupid slip.

Any ideas?

[MiddleFingerMom]

1. Don't know about the tests or the FOR LIFE portion...

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...but when recruiters are full of it... some of them will outright LIE -- but
ALWAYS in order to get you IN to the service... never to keep you OUT of it.
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Cushy military job... great extra pay... a lot of autonomy... often stationed
VERY close to your hometown. They want numbers -- and I think if they could
somehow bend the rules on this... they would definitely be bent.
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See if you can find another source about the FOR LIFE ban. And ask if he TOLD
them "Yeah, but it was just once."
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If that's the case... nevermind.
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[Xithras]

3. I've been poking around online...

And I've found some places saying that it's "for life". Others saying "yeah, but you can get waivers." And still others saying "There are no waivers."

Sometimes the Internet is useless.

[Zephie]

2. Well, my husband says as of 2004 (when he joined up the USCGC)

That you could in fact retest at a later date, though the rules may have changed since then. However he also says that the National Guard has a lot of applicants and may be getting choosy, so it could be a service specific policy. He says to try to go to a different recruiting station in a few months, but to be open about the fact that he used marijuana at one point (it will be in a file on him anyway that they WILL see). Honesty goes a long way in the recruitment process, or so I'm told.

Best of luck to him.

[rug]

4. This is interesting info:

While not a "hard and fast" rule, one can expect that any admitted use of marijuana over 15 or so times, or any admitted use of "hard drugs," will be disqualifying, and require a waiver.

In any case:

1. Dependency on illegal drugs is disqualifying.

2. Any history of drug use is potentially disqualifying.

3. Any history of dependency on alcohol is disqualifying.

Even if enlistment is authorized, many sensitive military jobs will be closed to individuals who have any past association with illegal drug or alcohol use.

In the Air Force, anyone who admits to smoking marijuana less than 15 times does not require a waiver. More than 15 times, but less than 25 requires a Drug Eligibility Determination (basically, a trained Drug & Alcohol Specialist will examine the exact circumstances of the use). An approved Drug Eligibility Determination is not the same thing as a "waiver," in that it will not preclude enlistment in most Air Force Jobs. 25 or more uses of Marijuana in a lifetime is disqualifying, and requires a waiver.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards2.htm

I can't find the sotrce for the article's information but it doesn't sound like a lifetime ban.

[Xithras]

8. Maybe I should tell him to try a different branch.

I don't know why he wanted to go Army anyway (hell, I want the kid to go to college and skip the military completely, but he's not mine, and it's not my call). Maybe the different branches have different standards.

I was told that he scored in the top 5% on his ASVAB/AFQT tests, so he should have been able to write his own ticket to any MOS he wanted. This all just seems kinda dumb to me.

Thanks for the info, I'll pass it along.

[Old Troop]

35. Wouldn't work to choose a different service, USMEPCOM, the organization

that inducts Americans into the service is a joint command, meaning it encompasses all services. The records are available for anyone who tries to enlist him. He should ask to speak with the recruiting company First Sergeant or commander.

[mzteris]

5. to be honest

I have a hard time believing he failed a drug test off of "one hit" from three weeks before.

[Xithras]

7. It was two weeks.

And, by his own admittance, he also spent several hours afterward drinking hard in a small motel room with several friends, who were all smoking it heavily. It's possible that the secondhand augmented the hit he deliberately took. It's also possible that he was just so drunk that night that he's forgotten the other hits he took.

Either way, it's a one time thing for him. He's a very straight, "by the books" kid who just got wasted on the night of his senior prom. My point was that he's simply not a pothead.

[mzteris]

9. no such thing as "contact high"

that's a complete myth.

The boy is - if you'll forgive the bad analogy - blowing smoke . . .

He may not "be a pothead" - but he did more than one toke.

[snooper2]

20. tell that to my cat

:P

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

26. Difference between contact high and random high

cats hallucinate, drugs or no.

:hi:

[mzteris]

38. by being in the same room

or by blowing it in his face? :)

[sarge43]

6. One thing your friend can do is go back and ask to see that

rule in writing. Take an adult with him. If the recruiter sandbags, ask to see the station commander. If that fails, write his congresscriter.

Unless they're statute based like minimum enlistment age, these requirements and restrictions change with the phases of the moon. If the warm bodies are lined up around the block, the requirements are high and picky. If not, an occasional heart beat is all that's necessary. For life does sound extreme and self defeating.

Blowing the pee-pee test for pot three weeks after the fact doesn't sound right either.

[Old Troop]

36. Good advice Sarge.

[sarge43]

42. Thanks

Personal experience -- it's very easy to be overwhelmed by the sheer volumn of paperwork and this regulation is gospel until tomorrow ole switcharooies. I made more than one phone call, "Hey, ya remember I said yesterday you couldn't do blah, blah. Get your butt over here. Blah, Blah is now authorized."

[Brickbat]

10. One hit two weeks before a test and he pisses positive?

Somehow, I don't think that was his only time.

[Xithras]

27. Like I said above.

I wouldn't be suprised if he actually took more than one hit. I'd be shocked to find out that he'd actually done it more than once though.

[JonLP24]

11. It could be correct

When I enlisted they allowed retakes but you weren't eligible for a bonus if tested positive.

In my experience with light use, 1 week should be good enough to get clean. The 30 day stuff you hear is with heavy use.

[XemaSab]

12. Though I'm basing this on nothing

seems like if they kept out every kid who toked once or twice, there wouldn't be a lot of people in the military.

[JonLP24]

14. Bingo

Of course they ask if you used illegal drugs ever you could lie. If you were arrested for possession you could get a waiver. Though things may have changed last few years. I remember they allowed retakes at MEPS, you just couldn't get an enlistment bonus.

[sarge43]

15. If they booted everyone who toked once in awhile, we would

have an armed force about the size of Costa Rica's. Every army got/gets wasted on something. Our preferred chemical is liquor.

Social Actions officer of my acquaintance, "I'm not concerned about toking enlisted. It's boozing officers that worrying me."

[mzteris]

39. just gotta be smart enough

to pass the test. . .

[sarge43]

40. Or at least smart enough to know they'll do a no notice

the Tuesday after a holiday three days off. The Fourth and Labor Day weekends always meant stocking a double order of sample cups.

[mzteris]

41. my brother used to

do surprise drug tests, and then do another the next or two days later. Caught a lot of them that way.

[Aristus]

13. I took my share of piss-tests when I was in. Passed them all with flying colors.

Simple. I waited until I was out of the service before I took my first hit off a joint. B-) :smoke:

[Xithras]

29. The problem is that he's 18 and in California.

I suppose this will become a bigger problem in coming years. One of the last thing that Schwarzeneggar did before leaving office was to sign a bill that decriminalized pot use. It's still a civil infraction that will net you a $100 fine, but you won't be arrested and it won't appear on your criminal record. For all intents and purposes, it's been decriminalized...it's the legal equivalent of a speeding ticket.

California 18 year olds know this, and think that it's now "OK" for them to smoke. They don't always understand the potential federal repercussions, including the one that my friends son is now facing.

[av8rdave]

16. At the time I was in the military...

A positive test was instant separation from the military with no due process and no retest opportunity. Of course, it's been 24 years since I had a military drug test.

[sarge43]

17. Well it wasn't an instant boot in the AF during the 70's.

First termers were nailed with Art 15, first time. Do it again and bye-bye. Career enlisted (them what got caught) Art 15 which killed the career. Second time probably a summary or special CM and bye-bye.

A company grade officer? Just disappeared.

Former personnel point for all base disciplinary actions, ie Santa Claus, knew who was naughty or nice (or at least fast on their feet).

[av8rdave]

18. That was my situation - company grade officer

In the 80s. There were no second chances, Article 15s or retests.

[sarge43]

19. Army?

Its hammer has always been bigger - for good reason.

[av8rdave]

21. Air Force

[sarge43]

23. Uh. Didn't know it had gotten that hot eyed.

Glad I bailed when I did. Trying to keep track of the 10 percenters was bad enough. More and "I'm getting too old for this shit."

[av8rdave]

30. I was out by the end of '87. Have no idea what it's like now

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. Article 15 a career-killer?

I thought all records of an article-15 were destroyed when a person transfers. Shitcanning Article-15s was just one of my REMF jobs. Sent to next assignment with a clean record (unless some kind of court-martial - that's a bit stickier)

:hi:

edit to add: dunno about officers. my experience was with enlisted folks' article 15's

[JonLP24]

31. Field grade Article 15s stay on your record

Company grade just stays with the company.

[sarge43]

33. It was for a career noncom.

Especially if max punishment was handed out -- fine, bad time, demotion. It also guaranteed a less than fire walled report card.
Couldn't be mentioned in the write up, but given the red in fang and claw promotion system "Sgt Smith's duty performance this reporting period has not met the standard expected of an individual of his rank and time in service." would pretty much knee cap him.

Frankly, I don't remember what we did with the Art 15 files when perp left town. Minor league FUs like letters of rep and control roster rides went into File 13 after one year or when perp left. Unless it was dodged, a court martial hit, being fed offense, was the gift that kept on giving and giving.

An officer's Art 15 hit was summed up by a SJA type about a lieutenant who getting one, "He's fucked."

[JonLP24]

32. These days

they don't do retakes when you're in. I was only aware of retakes happening for those trying to enlist.

It can be instant separation or maybe not. It all depends on who the commanding officer is. There is a due process in the sense you can ask for medical review and they'll look through your medical files to see if you were prescribed anything that is known for false positives. Though they don't care if you bought medication over-the-counter from a grocery store.

[Bombero1956]

22. let me get this right

They rejected him because he took a hit on a joint 2 weeks before his MEPS while at the same time taking in people with Rap sheets a mile long and others that are psychotic?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. You say "psychotic" like it's a BAD thing

When we're recruiting guards at Abu Ghraib ... we have standards ...

[Xithras]

28. So, he spoke with someone else this morning. Got some clarification.

They told him that he MIGHT be able to get him in again in October, "depending on where they're at with the recruiting quotas."

The gent he spoke with this morning is apparently the supervisor or CO of the guy he's been dealing with. He was told that they tightened up the recruitment standards a LOT in 2009. The economy is bad, so a lot more people are trying to join up because they can't find jobs elsewhere. They're being a LOT pickier than they used to be, simply because they CAN be picky.

They can issue him a waiver and allow him to try again in six months, but ONLY if they can show that it's necessary for them to meet their recruitment goals. When he asked what the odds were of that happening, the guy responded that he "might want to start working on a backup plan."

So, as it turns out, failing one drug test does NOT get you a lifetime ban, but it DOES make it very, very unlikely that you'll ever get in.

Ah well, I'm inviting him over to my house this weekend so we can get his FAFSA filled out and get him registered at the local community college. I'm not anti-military, but I'd rather see this kid in a classroom anyway.

[Old Troop]

34. Wrong, wrong, wrong

I was in Army Recruiting for some time and we would have lost a whole lot of great people if one timers didn't get a second chance. Sounds like the recruiter was pissed off (probably lost his mission for the month on the kid). Army Regulation 601-56 says:
waivers
(BAT and DAT)
a. Applicant or FS who is confirmed positive
for the presence of drugs or alcohol at the time
of original PE or DAT may retest after 45 days if
the confirmed positive was for alcohol or tetrahydrolcannabinol
(marijuana) only. If retest is
negative, a waiver may be processed for enlistment.
Approval authority, Rctg Bn commander.
b. PS applicants with positive DAT results
may not be processed.
NOTE: No waiver for positive results is authorized.
c. If the retest is positive, the applicant is
disqualified for 2 years from date of retest. Applicants
found positive for cocaine or other drugs
are not authorized a retest until 1 year from date
of original test. If after 1 year the retest is negative,
a waiver may be processed for enlistment.
If retest is positive, the applicant is permanently
disqualified.
(1) Approval authority, CG USAREC.
(2) Minimum documentation: Waiver memorandum,
USMEPCOM PCN 680-3ADP, DD
Form 1966 series, SF 86, USAREC Form 1104,
DD Form 369, DD Form 2807-1, DD Form 2808,
and other documents as the commander may
require.
d. In the event an applicant states he or she
tested positive for alcohol or drugs, but the MEPS
neither has that physical on file nor information
in the computer database, a waiver is required.
Documentation will be the same as in c(2) above.
The DD Form 2807-1 and DD Form 2808 will be
the current physical. Annotate DD Form 1966,
page 3, as follows: “Applicant tested positive
for (disqualification) at the (city) MEPS in (year).
Waiver processed on (date), and based on that
information is approved.”

[Orsino]

37. Did he admit to drug use? Did he lie about it?

I have to believe that this is a key point.

I know nothing about MEPS standards, though I was a "urinalysis observer," AKA whizz-quizmaster, AKA pipe-watcher. An important point to consider is the level of security clearance the young man's potential job requires. I can say that it is possible to get a TOP SECRET even after admitting to very minor drug use well in the past.

Recruiters do lie (as it says in the song), but rarely do they lie in order to lose a recruit.