Oh, fuck you. Stop telling me this, please (as found on youtube):

[Redstone]

"Your browser is no longer supported. Please upgrade to a modern browser." My browser's TWO FUCKING YEARS OLD - not hardly an antique.

"No longer supported," my ass. You want my business? Then don't tell me that I have to "upgrade" to software of your liking.

Hey, assholes: I design websites for a living. And guess what? They all work with whatever browser the CUSTOMER wants to use (though not Netscape 4; there are limits to reason after all).

And, after all, aren't customers the reason you're in business?

Redstone

[TrogL]

1. try going to sourceforge with IE 5.0

No, it doesn't work.

[Redstone]

2. IE? Are you kidding? I'm holding silverware in the shape of a cross in front

of me right now...

I only use IE (running in Virtual PC on my Mac) to see how the websites I make for my customers work on it.

(My customers' customers are electronic design engineers, so they're likely running Win XP / IE, based on what I see from the log files.)

Redstone

[HopeHoops]

5. NO version of IE is a modern browser.

You still have to jump through hoops to get it to do what even older versions of Firefox, Safari and Opera will do easily. There are beautiful things you can do with CSS that IE still hasn't incorporated (even Version 8). And if you love being infected with malware, there's nothing better than IE to do the job. Chrome is more of a data gathering tool for Google than a browser (and they openly admit that), so I don't even count it as a browser.

Microsoft has seriously improved so many things (Win 7, Visual Studio 2010 Professional, MS Office, etc.), but the only thing they've done with IE is to make it take longer to load, clutter up the screen with shit you don't need, and hide all the stuff you do need so you have to go hunting for it. I guess they needed SOMETHING to fuck up royally.

Stick with Firefox. Version 3.6 is noticeably faster (at least over 3.5), and it has always been much faster than IE.

[Redstone]

6. Yargh. I keep wanting to update my customer's websites to a css structure,

but if it breaks in IE, I can't do that. Guess I'll have to stick to the old tried-and-true Stupid JavaScript Tricks.

Redstone

[HopeHoops]

7. Oh, you can do it. You just have to accept that a lot of cool stuff won't work in IE.

IE handles widths and padding for things a bit differently so you have to accept that it will render things differently than the real browsers. That's just an issue that requires you to test it on IE and real browsers side-by-side and say, "okay, I can live with that." What pisses me off the most are things that I really want to use (like some of the simple button styles) that IE totally hoses up and the things that are specifically pointed out as not supported up through IE 6 in the O'Reilly CSS book (up through CSS 2.1 draft) that STILL don't work in IE 8. M$ has had plenty of time to deal with these issues and has pretty much ignored them.

CSS will make your life far easier and the time you spend fucking around with it to get IE to at least look like a browser is well worth spending compared to how long it would take you to manually make changes to styles throughout a web site. For example, I wanted some simple navigation buttons to have a background color that was consistent with the color scheme for a site with a shitload of pages that the buttons appear on. It took the insertion of one line in the CSS file. Manually changing every button on every page would have royally sucked (and taken all day). Oh, and I tried about 10 different shades of the background color before I settled on the one I liked best - again, one line to modify.

If you don't have the O'Reilly book ("CSS, The Definitive Guide"), you should get it and read it before you start. It has two fish on the front. I've got a rather huge collection of their books, and that's the only one I can think of that didn't have a mammal, marsupial, or bird on the cover. My favorite cover is the tarsier on the VI book.

[hunter]

3. I have the very latest browser technology...

youtube looks like this:

........... ...........

[Redstone]

4. Har! Thanks for the info; I'll make damn sure NOT to ugrade now.

Redstone

[applegrove]

8. The Economist did an article on the new teachings in business schools since the

1990s. People are taught to treat all their relationships as if they were competition. That means customers, government, stockholders, employees are the enemy. Look at how they have pushed back on unions and regulations. Of course they would be pushing back on customers to improve productivity or cash flow.