I bought some flags for 4th of July. (Implicitly anti-Teabagger.)

[Deep13]

I thought I'd spruce up the homestead with some patriotic color. Lately, I've been seeing vehicles with Gadsen or Culpepper flag stickers and a couple of houses with actual Gadsen flags. They're the ones with the snake saying "Don't tread on me." They are from the Revolution, of course, but Teabaggers have misappropriated them for their idiotic, made-up "movement." Believe it or not, there are also a few Confederate flags around here too.

So this one is my implicitly anti-teabagger flag. It's a Civil War Federal Cavalry flag. I chose it because it is different enough from the present U.S. flag to be recognizable as Civil War and not Confederate. It's anti-rebellion, anti-slavery and pro-Federal. I don't like the idea of them having a monopoly on that aspect of the public attention. If the unamerican voices can fly their flags, then I ought to be able to find one that says "I'm not with those assholes."




This is the New England continental flag and is a shout out to my native Massachusetts as well as the other five blue New England states. Records indicate that this flag was used at Bunker Hill.

[Seneca]

1. The Federal flag in the Civil War was not necessarily "anti-slavery"

...being that slavery was fully legal in Missouri and Kentucky, two states which stayed in the union (and legal in portions of other union states too). So would that cancel out the flag in those 2 states and other areas?

Also bear in mind that unification, not emancipation, was the overriding objective of the war until it was politically strategic for Lincoln to change it. That didn't change the flag's meaning, however. It never represented the war's objective one way or the other.

In truth, the Federal cavalry flag you mention, and the Confederate battle flag, are not political flags. They were battle standards used to identify troops in the heat of conflict. A colorful I.D. card, if you will. They represented armies, not the ideology of the people in the armies (never mind that the vast majority of Confederate soldiers didn't own slaves, or even cared one way or the other about defending slavery - and also bear in mind some Union troops *did* own slaves). Your definition of the Federal cavalry flag is as dishonest as any racist's or conservative's appropriation of the Confederate battle standard. Both you and they are incorrect in what you declare the flag represents.

Considering that the U.S. flag presided over legalized slavery for the better part of 90 years, it's a bit slick to claim that ANY American flag was 'anti-slavery', even during the war.

Before you think your Federal cavalry flag is so high and mighty, I might remind you that tomorrow marks 134 years since the U.S. 7th Cavalry fell at Little Bighorn. Flags similar to the one you display in your post were used to identify troops which took part in that battle, and the subsequent wholesale slaughter of indigenous people which followed in its wake - and for that matter, preceded it during the 'Trail of Tears' and so forth. But I wouldn't presume to tell you that your flag is pro-genocide, because that would be as dishonest as what you and your teabagger neighbors are doing to the flags you list in your post.

So go ahead, be reactionary and fight them with a battle of symbols, instead of ideas.

[SoxFan]

2. ...

[deutsey]

7. LOL

:thumbsup:

[Deep13]

4. How can an official govt. flag not be political?

Symbols convey ideas. I'm sick of RW assholes monopolizing patriotic symbols. Flags are like candidate lawn signs. They won't win the argument, but a lack of them undermines ones legitmacy in the eyes of the public. Anyway, you pose a false dilemma. It's not either symbols or ideas, but symbols and ideas.

The war was ultimately about slavery and Union victory ended it.

The Union side was pro-Federal just as secessionists and teabaggers are anti-Federal.

I was rather hoping people would see it as a Civil War flag rather than an anti-Indian flag, although you do raise a valid point there. I looked for a Union flag that was only used in the war and was instantly recognizable as such, but most of them just look like modern U.S. flags with creative star arraingements.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

10. Not taking sides just clarifying

accepted US history re:

The war was ultimately about slavery and Union victory ended it-

The war was about economics of which slavery was a part....

[Deep13]

11. I know a lot of people are of that opinion...

...but I don't agree. Whatever individuals subjectively thought as they supported one side or the other, slavery was the root cause. As you say, the economics of it were a contest between northern, industrial, capitalism and the slave-based planation system. I'm not saying one is good and the other evil (although slavery is unquestionably evil), but the existence of slavery was the cause of the conflict. The writings of those involved make it clear that many regarded slavery as the fundamental cause of the war. The conduct of those doing the fighting reflect this. Federal officers made it a point of freeing slaves everywhere they went as a way of crippling the South. Rebel soldiers typically took white Union soldiers captive, but killed Blacks who surrendered. 1% of the northern population was Black compared to 10% of the Fed. army. The Emancipation Proclamation made not have freed anyone, but it kept France and Britian from intervening ending any chance at Confederate victory. The vast northern supremecy in man power and equipment was owing to non-slave industrialization. Etc.

[Arugula Latte]

18. Oh gawd I hate that stupid talking point

Yes, yes, it was about economics -- the economics of slavery. Gosh, who would have thought imprisoning human beings and using them for free labor had economic rewards for their owners? :think:

[GoneOffShore]

3. Fly no flags at all - Stop the flag madness or the French tricolor

Or the Irish one.

Flags, like patriotism, are the last refuge of scoundrels.

[Deep13]

5. I'll do the Tricolour on Bastille Day.

That's not until 7/14.

While people and towns certainly over do it with flags, it's not "madness" nor will my refusal to use them keep others from doing so. I just thought it was better than a sign that said "You're a bunch of disloyal, hypocritical, racist assholes."

[SoxFan]

9. Deep13, when will you realize the truth

You are nothing more than an unenlightened philistine, a bourgeois puppet who clearly does not have the same depth and intellect of a true progressive. :evilgrin:

(Oh, and go with the Bunker Hill flag. I love that one)

[Deep13]

12. Geeze, you say that like it's a bad thing.

Unenlightened? Maybe. It's hard to call myself educated when I still can't read Greek or Latin (or even French very well.)

Philistine? Absolutely.

We're all puppets to some degree.

And I absolutely agree about not being the same depth or intellect as the average progressive. I prefer complete immersion while a lot of folks around here are content with rolling up their pant legs and wading ankle-deep.

:evilgrin: and :P for good measure.

[Mad_Dem_X]

6. I'm flying a small, original 13 colonies flag

in front of my house. That's it.

[Deep13]

8. I cancelled the order. ...

I don't like the fact that the Union cavalry flag became the let's-kill-all-the-Indians flag later in the century.

[Deep13]

13. Okay, substituted the cavalry flag with the original Ft. Sumter flag.

This is the one that was shot off during the attack on Ft. Sumter. It was replaced with a smaller flag with a slightly different star arrangement until the fort surrendered.

[geardaddy]

14. How about this one?

[Deep13]

15. Green Mountain Boys?

I like it. But I'm from MA, not VT. :7

I believe that was Ethan Allen's regiment. He never became as influential as some other folks of the Revolutionary era partly because of his personality and partly because of his acknowledged atheism.

[geardaddy]

16. Yep!

My grandfather always believed his ancestors were part of the GMBs. It hasn't been verified though.

[Arugula Latte]

17. I like this flag the best:

[Deep13]

19. That's a good one. nt