Men ditch 'nice guy' style, get more dates

[Elmore Furth]

Hey, I can be a jerk if it gets me laid.

"Girls might say they want a nice guy, but what they really want is the cool guy," said Arthur Malov, founder of New York Dating Coach, a relationship consulting agency with primarily male clients. "A jerk is rarely so bad that no one wants to hook up with him."

Robert Glover, author of the 2003 book "No More Mr. Nice Guy," says the nice guy personality is usually developed at a young age and is probably shaped by the guy's parents. For example, he found some men with the nice guy persona were heavily influenced by their mothers. Other men were trying to avoid a macho-male personality or philandering behavior displayed by the father.

Academic studies have reaffirmed that women prefer the bad boy archetype over the nice guy. A 2008 study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces examined how college students perceived "dark" traits such as thrill-seeking behavior, deceitfulness and narcissism. The study found the female students preferred the males with these traits.

In her seven years of dating coach experience, Lisa Shield of Los Angeles, California, discovered that a majority of female clients prefer a man with edge who draws boundaries. Her clients reject nice guys as too malleable.



Men ditch 'nice guy' style, get more dates

[UndertheOcean]

1. I knew it ! n/t

[Deep13]

2. OR Why Assholes Always Have Girlfriends. nt

[TZ]

3. Oh god I hate this shit.

Yes, all women are EXACTLY alike in what they want..:banghead:
I think its more that women like men that have good self esteem and are confident. I think its the same with what men like in women, in many respects. A women who is confident in herself often will do better than a pretty but low self esteem woman.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

32. John T. Malloy, author of "Dress For Success"...

...in his book "New Dress For Success," wrote the following. The book was published in 1988. And no, women aren't exactly alike in what they want. All I can say from my experience working in "Cubicle World" for much of my adult life, prior to starting my own business, is that the male assholes in ANY kind of position of power were the ROCK STARS of every company I've ever been in.

I once asked a female friend about the "phenomenon." She said "Sometimes we have to fuck a few bad boys to get it out of our system, then we want a guy like you."

I wasn't flattered. I've canceled dates with women upon finding out about things they've gotten out of their system. It's their life, more power to them, but for me, I'd rather be with someone who didn't have that in their system in the first place.

Here ya go...no link, scanned from the book:

WHAT SELF-CONFIDENCE REALLY MEANS TO WOMEN

Most women will say that they are attracted to men who exude what they call self-confidence, but what my follow-up research has shown is that what they are talking about is really more akin to arrogance.

In testing in singles bars on New York's Upper East Side, I used two men who had tested equally sexy in the eyes of most women. When I asked the men to act in a self-confident or assured manner, the relationship between their demeanor and the way any women were attracted to them was practically zero.

Yet when I told the men to act arrogantly, they were far more successful in being judged sexy and attractive. I do not know the meaning of this, and am not sure I want to find out, but take it for what it is worth.

Women who are older than forty react to just about the same stimulants as the younger women, with the exception that they are more attracted to slightly heavier men. They also tend to be less impressed with the European-cut suit, preferring men who wear more traditional, conservative suits, which is what they were brought up seeing at home. Generally, the older a woman is, the more apt she is to dislike men whose hair is styled.

When Don Juan was on his death bed, he was giving advice to a young man who wished to follow in his rather-to-be-envied footsteps. When it came to the discussion of the clothing the young man should wear to attract women, Don Juan told him simply to attract one woman and let her pick out his clothing. Thus clothed, the young man could then pick out all the other women he desired.

The advice is still quite sound. There is not a woman in the world who would not be flattered if asked to help choose a man's clothing, and almost all of them will choose garments that are sexually attractive on you. So let them. My only word of caution is to make sure they pick out garments that are not going to be worn to the office, but only those you are buying specifically to make yourself attractive to women. Remember that the two definitely do not mix.

[seabeyond]

33. see, and arrogance is an immediate turn off for me. had lunch with one today

walking out with hubby, i told him.... gary is so FULL of shit. didnt even finish the sentence before hubby was laughing. he knew what was going thru my brain during lunch.

i dont agree witht he dude. having female friends, most of us know the difference between an honest confidence and a dishonest arrogance. we arent so thrilled with the dishonest. dishonest bleeds thru out a person character. if it is in one part of their being, probably in more parts of them too. who wants that

ya

the fucked up

[Amerigo Vespucci]

36. A brief, true short story about an arrogant guy I worked with who ended up running the place

While he was manager of Customer Service, one of the reps...he name was Gloria...was HEAD OVER HEELS in love with this guy. "Unrequited love"...he knew, and almost gained a sense of contempt for her as a result.

Anyway, she worshiped the ground he walked on. And then things got tough when we lost one of our larger clients (25% of our total revenue at that time), so some people had to get laid off. Gloria was one of them.

And he RELISHED the thought of sticking the knife in her. He TOLD people so. And I can't even imagine, given the way she felt about the guy, what it must have felt like for her to get kicked to the curb by this douchebag.

She cried like someone died. It was terrible to see her leave that way.

And before she got both feet out the door, he was laughing his ASS off.

But our company president loved him. I was editor of our company newsletter for a while and had to write an article on the guy getting a promotion. Our CEO insisted that I use his quote: "If I ever found myself stranded at sea, I'd want Bill in the life raft with me."

:eyes:

One promotion led to another, culminating in him becoming CEO when the actual CEO decided to take a very early retirement (in his early 40s).

Less than a year after taking the position, he was fired for gross incompetence by the parent company.

TRUE STORY.

[bullwinkle428]

39. Those Olympic-level ass-kissers always end up "Peter Principle-ing"

themselves!! The question is always, how far up the chain do they get and how much damage do they ultimately do to the organization before that cancer is removed?

I can think of someone who was probably his "separated at birth" brother that worked for the same employer I did for many years. After a reorganization, his ego couldn't handle the apparently missed opportunity to move him even further up the corporate ladder, so he resigned in disgust. :party:

[seabeyond]

40. i would be shruggin at the womans boo hooing. it is there to see. she chose not to

for whatever reason.

i cant do stupid... very well.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

44. Part of the "bad boy" thing...and once again, this doesn't apply to "all" women...

...is that there is an irresistible challenge along the lines of "I can change him."

Truth of the matter is that 99.9% of the time, that's not true.

Look at Elin Nordegren and Sandra Bullock. They succeeded in changing jack shit.

It's terrible, because some...once again, not "all"...women...think "If I'm nice enough to him, he'll be nice to me in return."

Reminds me of that episode of "The Sopranos" where Tony has just gutted Robert Patrick's sporting goods store in exchange for a bad gambling debt. Patrick is destroyed, sobbing, and Tony says "HEY...this is what I DO. Frog and the scorpion, remember?"

But like I said earlier, life is all about free will. You're right. Everyone knew what this guy was all about, including Gloria. She just chose to believe there was something better, down inside, than what was on the surface.

She was wrong.

The "down inside" stuff was WORSE than what was on the surface.

[bullwinkle428]

4. I read Glover's book a few years back - the main message/theme is NOT

"be an asshole"! :banghead: Too bad that people insist on oversimplifying everything!


The book stresses the idea that men should be true to what they believe in, and be willing to stand up for those beliefs. "Nice guys" spend far too much time trying to make everyone else happy, believing that this will in turn allow them to be loved and make sure that everything in their lives run smoothly.

Are there always going to be some women that will choose the genuine asshole? Of course! That's life - deal with it!

I don't think there's any question the book helped me develop the fortitude to end a relationship I had been involved for nearly 2 years, as it had become completely emotionally unsatisfying. The "old me" would have been far too apprehensive about not wanting to be back on my own again...

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. Richard Feynman said he got dates and got laid WAY more often after he tried to be an asshole.

After his wife died and he was ready to start dating again, he began to notice that the women seemed to always go for the assholes, and he was the nice guy, and couldn't get dates, let alone any sex.

So, being the eminent top notch scientist he is, he decided to try an experiment and started being an asshole to the women.

Bingo - more dates and sex than he knew what to do with.

[bullwinkle428]

35. It would be interesting to see how Feynman in particular defines

"nice" vs. "asshole"! It seems very open to interpretation, as judged only by the responses in this thread and all of the other threads on this general topic in DU history

[MrCoffee]

42. I never in a million years ever thought I'd say to myself

How in the screaming hell am I going to get the image of Richard Feynman pulling tail out of my head?

[raccoon]

5. Oh, this tired old meme again. nt

[mitchum]

6. "Mad, bad, and dangerous to know" works every time

I'm fine with that

[chrisa]

7. "A Nice Guy" isn't always so nice.

Being "nice" is a favorible trait. I have to laugh at these people who say otherwise, like people will actually like you if you swagger around, doing stupid things like picking fights with others, and acting like an immature jerk. Don't do that. Ever.

But on the otherhand, some of these "nice guys" are really just as bad as the assholes. It all comes down to whether or not you have empathy and care about other people. Some people can be morons, but treat their girlfriends like they have a heart of gold. Others can appear nice superficially, but be the biggest pretenders and liars out there.

I would say to someone, well, if your only goal is to treat others like a personal sex device, then you're the one with the problem.

[edbermac]

8. Elin Nordegren hooked up with a 'cool guy'.

That turned out well, didn't it?

[mitchum]

9. Sorry, but there are no cool golfers

not even Woods

[cemaphonic]

17. *snarf*

[NewJeffCT]

22. +1

golfing is not a "cool" guy sport.

[Heidi]

10. Re: "Hey, I can be a jerk if it gets me laid."

What could possibly go wrong?

[LanternWaste]

11. I was thinking precisely that...

I was thinking precisely that.

Absurd path towards a misplaced goal will result in either the Annual Darwin Award of Dating or a court order.

[Heidi]

15. "Hey, everbuddy! Watch THIS!!!!!"

[Orsino]

12. But more dates with what caliber of partners?

More dates =/= better.

[Heidi]

16. And people wonder how they end up with* psycho lovers.

Buy hey, anything to get laid, right?

*I realize some folks end up with psychopathic "admirers" through no fault of their own, but that's certainly not always the case.

[old mark]

20. More dates with their female equivalents. I prefer quality over quantity, every time. nt

[unpossibles]

38. a very good point

Quality trumps quantity any day.

[LeftyFingerPop]

13. Men..

Be yourself. Don't try to be anyone else. Be kind, be empathetic. Be as strong as you can, both physically and emotionally. Stand up for your beliefs, but choose your battles. Be respectful to both genders. Don't take any shit, but be reasonable enough to admit when you are wrong...and there are times that you will be wrong. Don't be afraid to be childlike and silly...it keeps you young and gives you a better perspective on serious matters.

Don't try to recreate yourself around what someone writes concerning "what women want".

You're welcome.

[snailly]

54. This. This. This!

Been married to the man you just described for 15 years. Not a wimp, not an asshole. He's just him and that's why I fell in love with him 18 years ago.

[BuelahWitch]

14. Only a jerk would think being a jerk gets him laid...

:hide:

[seabeyond]

18. no. they dont want spineless and weak. nice, ... confident and decisive works well. but

i knew we were gonna get this one on du.

but this study is not saying, women dont want nice. want people are considering "nice" isnt about nice, it is about wussy, and most confident, strong people of either gender dont want weak.

[Heidi]

19. This is about the 873rd kajillion time for this crap at DU.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if someone would post an honest OP along the lines of, "I'm a good human being. That's not negotiable. Finer details, however, are open to discussion..."?

[seabeyond]

29. lol

ya know.

[NewJeffCT]

23. Great post

I agree with you - and, i think the OP's subject line makes it sound more controversial than it is.

[seabeyond]

26. this is actually gonna be the dinner conversation tonight for my two nice.... and confident, strong

willed, one not so decisive, boys... lol.

put a check next to that on my parenting list.

[bullwinkle428]

21. Quality Women are NOT Attracted to Douchebags

For some guys being a douchebag is just a passing stage of confusion in discovering his own identity before he become a real men. For others, unfortunately, it turns into a way of life, if you will.

You might be wondering why then so many douchebags seem to be so successful and approaching and meeting hot women. You must keep in mind, however, the kind of women that these guys meet. While they might be very attractive physically, they likely have serious emotional issues, and most commonly insecurity, and a long history of major disappointments in men.

http://www.practicalhappiness.com/quality-women-are-not-attracted-to-douchebags

[seabeyond]

27. i see it as "used and be used" relationship. and if others want it, so be it.

not on my agenda

[CBR]

24. I don't think it is about being a jerk, it is about being

confident. I like men who know who they are and are willing to stand up for themselves and their beliefs. I would be overwhelming for some of these nice guys. My husband is a good man but he is not going to walk around on eggshells to please everyone or let someone say a lot of stupid shit when he is around.

[NewJeffCT]

25. I was able to still be a pretty damn nice guy most of the time

but, I managed to find two attractive and intelligent women to say "yes" to marry me. There is a difference between being nice, though, and being too nice/wishy-washy.

Granted, both my wife and my ex-wife had bad taste in men, which might explain some things as well.

[seabeyond]

28. i am in between saying hooyah with your post and lmao.... lol. funny. nt

[NewJeffCT]

30. I also had to learn, though

I was one of those too nice/wishy washy types in my teens and most of my 20s.

[CreekDog]

34. A friend read this and thought the key wasn't "nice vs. jerk" but "strong vs. weak"

I think it's more "confidence in who you are" vs. "uninteresting person who is just mirroring whatever I say/want".

[unpossibles]

37. fwiw, I think this is pretty common among ALL humans

I've fallen for jerks (male and female) more than I want to admit, and I know a LOT of men and women who do. It happens, even when I know better.

In fact, I was thinking about this earlier, how sometimes the mind and heart disagree.

[SoxFan]

41. These are the ones who become pathetic 45 year old "cougars" down the road

[Moondog]

43. In other news, this just in, the sun rises in the east! n/t

:popcorn:

[flvegan]

45. Now that I think of it, there may be something to this.

Interesting.

[LeftyMom]

50. I don't disagree, but I'd love to hear your reasoning.

[flvegan]

52. Well, amongst animal folks like us

as I gradually evolved/devolved into a bigger miscreant, seems I got more attention from the veggie chicks.

[LeftyMom]

53. That's different.

Also, who are these chicks and why are they paying attention to my boyfriend?

[flvegan]

55. Um...nobody.

:hide:

[Skittles]

46. what girls want is non-boring guys

[Odin2005]

47. I hate this kind of BS.

:puke:

[jmm]

48. Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS

Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS

You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless Bitch for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

.....

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

[seabeyond]

51. horrible how we define nice guys. horrible how we define females. only one coming out like a rose

is the bad guy. and he is the one that should be shat upon.

does this not tell us anything?

these definitions of nice guys are bullshit. all my life i have known nice, good men and they have been well worth it and gotten plenty of women. i know tons of women that want nothing to do with the LOSER "bad boy", have no desire to be a part of that life because.... he is a loser.

yet here we make the loser the winner and all women losers and nice men losers.

what a messed up world this is.... for those that want to buy into it.

[jmm]

56. I've known nice good men too. I've also known bad boys that were anything but losers.

Just like you put quotes around "bad boy" that article put quotes around "Nice Guys" for a reason. I don't care to get hung up on semantics but the men who are genuinely nice aren't the insecure and judgmental men people almost always are referring to when the issue of nice guys finishing last comes up.

[Sky Masterson]

49. bad boy shmad boy.It's none of that bullshit !

It's confidence.
Chicks find it attractive.

[wickerwoman]

57. Bullshit study- all they interviewed was college girls.

Study 40 year old women and you'll get a completely different result.

Immaturity attracts us to anyone who shows attention to us regardless of what they're actually like. And since assholes are more confident and can fake attraction better, they attract women who are immature.

Once women get a bit more confidence and experience, "dark" "dangerous" posers and inconsiderate jerks tend to be shown the door.