There is no wonder I rarely come here.

[BikeWriter]

There is little or no regard shown here for conserving our native wildife.

[TZ]

1. You mean like starlings and Norwegian Rats?

And disease carrying mice? Why don't you just realize that cats kill more pests than they do "native" wildlife.

[arcadian]

2. Some Shakespearean fool thought he was being real clever with that starling bit.

Bastard.

[BikeWriter]

3. Bull shit, it has been proven invasive mice outthrive native mice

in areas where cats are fed.

"Cats control harmful rodents." This is another myth created by the trap, neuter, abandon feral and roaming cat enablers. Why do the harmful house mice thrive in the presence of cats while the native mice and birds vanish? That's easily explained. The house mice evolved in other countries in the presence of cats!

Dr. Cole Hawkins conducted a study of two grassland parks in the East Bay Regional Park District in California--one with no cats and one where over 20 cats were being fed daily. The study found that there were almost twice as many birds in the park without cats as in the park with cats. California Thrasher and California Quail, two common ground-dwelling birds, were always seen in the park without cats but were never seen in the park with cats. In addition, over 85 percent of the native deer and harvest mice trapped were in the park without cats, whereas over 75 percent of the house mice (an exotic pest) trapped were in the park with cats.
https://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Conservation/Legacy/SafeCats/faq_commanders.html

[TZ]

10. Hantaa virus. Look it up

Bubonic Plague look it up! LCM, look it up. All diseases that kill people carried by mice OF ANY SPECIES.
You do know that in the dark ages, the killing of cats as "witches familiars" caused the spread of the Plague and thats why 2/3 of the population of Europe died. Cats kill vermin. Just because something is "native" doesn't make it good. I suppose one would be less dead if a native coral snake bit you than a cobra.
You are an idiot.

[BikeWriter]

13. Do you know the hundred million or so feral cats in America kill...

Several native species each day? If you believe that is sustainable you are hopeless.

[CreekDog]

17. Yes, in fact

I think my cat wants to kill me as soon as he gets the food delivery thing worked out. :D

[BikeWriter]

26. Give it my number BR549, I will tell it what to do.

[MrCoffee]

14. Were the cats killing the deer?

I'd watch that documentary.

[BikeWriter]

16. No, but they carry diseases that kill the near extinct Florida Panther.

[MrCoffee]

18. So what's the correlation to the missing deer?

I'm not seeing the connection between the cats and the deer.

[BikeWriter]

22. Trust me, the wildlife specialists do not call the domestic cat

public enemy #1 for no reason.

[TZ]

28. LOL!

I majored in Zoology and worked with some of the WORLD's experts on Ecology (Dr. Jim Dietz, Dr. Eugenie Clark, Dr. Gerald Borgia, Dr. Gerald Wilkinson, Dr. Douglas Gill..who is a premiere Ornithologist btw) and not ONCE did I ever hear them refer to cats as "enemy number 1!". But hey, they are scientists what the fuck do they know..:rofl:
BTW, Florida Panther is endangered because of habitat destruction. Somehow its kin flourishes all over the country even with the alien housecat around!

[mike_c]

44. I AM a research ecologist and zoologist-- and a cat rescuer....

I currently live with NINE cats, all of whom are happy, healthy, and occasional predators. But when well fed, most cats don't hunt much, in my experience. Certainly not nearly as much as hungry cats hunt.

Cats rock. They're surpassed only by kittens, which are the finest form of life on Earth-- and that's my PROFESSIONAL opinion! :rofl:

[yawnmaster]

35. I think if you use the deer as a control, then it appears that the ...

areas chosen where not chosen wisely and that it very well may be that that correlation between cats and low species numbers my only be correlation and not cause.

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Feeding feral cats in public parklands is probably not a good idea .

That said, I'm surprised that the study didn't note a higher incidence of coyotes in Lake Chabot park, because coyotes would be the primary predator for feral cats especially since the ferals were in an area without as many native rodents. The large EBRPD lands are loaded with coyotes, deer, and ground squirrels.

I read Hawkins's presentation. The paper initially discounted the much higher human presence in Lake Chabot park because there was little evidence on the observed trails but one of the possible limitations to the experiment is the timing of their human use observation. Lake Chabot park is a major recreation area because of the reservoir. The other park studied, Anthony Chabot, sees much less human activity. It would be nice if someone replicated the experiment and conducted human surveys at different times of day.

The other possible skewing of the data is the elimination of birds associated with water from the count. The authors say that they did this but make no comment on whether the presence of these birds may have had an impact on the populations of other birds in the study zone.

Another thought: perhaps the low level of deer mice at Lake Chabot is associated with lower deer populations because of the higher human usage in that area (the deer have plenty of adjacent parkland to inhabit instead.)

To me the paper is intriguing but hardly the final word on this issue.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

24. Don't mind TZ, she is biased

I have a picture:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. So now we know: TZ actually IS a cat. I suspected this all along...

[CreekDog]

5. I love these posts that rail against everyone!

:eyes:

[BikeWriter]

6. Uh, do you have anything intelligent to say, or perhaps facts to post?

[CreekDog]

7. Oh, I see, telling us we don't care about wildlife deserves an intelligent response

and some facts to go with it.

:eyes:

[BikeWriter]

9. You are laughable, I suppose you will laugh when we are asshole

deep in cats and all our beneficial species are extinct.

[CreekDog]

21. My cat eats spiders

[yawnmaster]

37. I believe cats are a beneficial species. eom

[Starbucks Anarchist]

8. I didn't know the Lounge was a wildlife forum.

[BikeWriter]

11. There used to be a few here cared about our environment, yes.

[tigereye]

30. why do you feel compelled to say that folks who don't agree with you

"don't care about the environment." That seems a bit OTT as an argument or persuasive strategy. :shrug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

39. Oh, now I remember.

You're the anti-cat nutjob.

[Dr. Strange]

12. Everyone knows the Lounge is the "wild life" forum.

:D

[BikeWriter]

15. Oh, a noobie, huh? You are probably unstainable too.

[GoCubsGo]

19. It's not just the environment that's in trouble when you let cats outdoors

The cats are in danger, too. They are in danger of being killed or maimed by cars, cat-hating people, psychopathic punks who love to torture animals, coyotes, hawks, dogs... Keep them indoors, not just for the sake of wildlife, but for the cat's sake, too. If you want them to enjoy the great outdoors, put them on a leash, or build/buy them an enclosure.

[BikeWriter]

23. You're exactly right! Most cat owners would prefer to not listen..

to you or me though. How many threads have you seen here bewailing the fact little Fuzzy was run over by a car? I'ce seen far too many! WAH! I was irresponsible and my cat was killed! It should have had an owner with enough sense to keep it indoors!

[GoCubsGo]

32. I wish my neighbors would listen

I'm sick of their cats coming into my yard and fighting with mine through the windows. Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention vet bills from cat fights. And, potential deadly communicable diseases that come from them, like FIV and FLV. At least I only have to worry about cleaning up smeared windows, rather than abscessed bites.

Anyone who loves their cats should read this:

http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/materials/hazards.pdf

[onestepforward]

33. I have 3 cats

that have always been kept indoors for those reasons along with environmental reasons. In my neighborhood, I've seen 3 cats killed by dogs and the aftermath of one cat cut up by some cat-hating human. There have also been numerous cats gone missing that have never been found (I'm guessing coyotes.) It is very heartbreaking.

I was fortunate when I got my first cat several decades ago at a local shelter. They had a big campaign to keep cats indoors. This was also reinforced with my vet. I've been doing it ever since. :)

[Kali]

20. heh,

thought you got a pizza

oh well welcome back, I guess

your rantings are no more nuts than some others around here

[flvegan]

25. My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[TZ]

27. Perfect response!

[LeftyMom]

29. by "cat food" you mean "the blood of the innocent," right?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

38. It tastes like burning!

[blogslut]

31. Owls and Coyotes think kitties are delicious.

Circle of life and all that.

[Fire Walk With Me]

36. It is a communist plot to sap our precious bar-b-que fluids.

[valerief]

40. Politicians shoot wildlife from planes. Pollute and shoot. nt

[gmoney]

42. Well, the DU servers are fueled with California condor eggs and panda entrails

but only by necessity.

[valerief]

43. Are you Big Edie or Little Edie? Oh, wait. You're anti-cat. Never mind. nt