Staffing the U.S. Military

[Bertha Venation]

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Sorry sweetie, but the war machine can't have my babies.

[Xithras]

2. Two years noncombat, or one year combat-able, non-extendable, in exchange for free college tuition.

Service to be rendered either in lump sum or in installments prior to age 30. The choice as to which "version" should be up to the individual, and not the "needs" of the military.

[JonLP24]

4. I like that

I'd have the free tuition under that formant.

[TheMightyFavog]

5. Volunteer Fire Departments and EMS must be includen under this proposal

Training, of course must be paid for by the government.

Vounteer fire departments need people badly.

[Xithras]

6. National Service should cover a lot of different things.

But no, I don't think that walking up to your local fire department and volunteering should be enough to qualify.

My brother in law is a volunteer firefighter in Oregon, and my dad was one for many years, so I get what you're saying, but that's not the point of National Service. The idea of National Service is that the government picks projects, nationwide, that need attention and then ships the workers in to help complete it based on their existing skill sets.

That said, I do think that some sort of subsidy needs to be put into place to help out small fire departments, many of which are struggling badly right now. My brother in laws department has lost a third of its volunteers over the past year. People who are losing their jobs and homes simply don't have the time or money to dedicate to a fire department.

[TheMightyFavog]

8. Service for a volunteer fire department counts in Germany.

I'm assuming that's what you are basing your model on.

[Xithras]

9. Largely, yes.

The problem, though, is that people will then naturally gravitate toward projects that keep them close to home. That may not be a problem in a geographically compact nation like Germany, but has the potential to become a major issue in large nations like the U.S.

The idea of National Service SHOULD be national, and not regional or local. If you live in California and volunteer workers are really needed for a project in Nebraska, or if emergency volunteers are needed for a flood in Iowa, and the only available workers are all from New York, the government needs to be able to make those assignments.

I guess I'd foresee something that's a bit more of a blend between the German model and the WPA of the 1930's.

[Wapsie B]

3. Instead of commercials depicting working class families

I'd love to see several portraying upper income folks. The son or daughter of a wealthy CEO comes to their parent wanting to serve the country that has given their family so much. The cynic in me realizes that will never happen; not in a million years.

[ipfilter]

14. It happens.

But they rich kid goes to an academy and becomes an officer with an over inflated sense of entitlement.

[alarimer]

7. Draft rich kids first as enlisted, not officers.

They NEVER have to do it. They do not need to volunteer since Mommy/Daddy gives them everything they want or need including a first class education that they will mostly fritter away drinking. So draft them and put them on the bottom of the pile just like everyone else so they will actually have to work at something for once in their lives.

Poor kids should not be drafted but they can still volunteer and get the benefits if they do.

[Deep13]

10. End the wars. nt

[rcrush]

11. I dont wanna

Nope no thanks!

[NJmaverick]

12. For as long at it lasts, volunteer is a good choice

Seems like a better option than forcing people.

[Heidi]

13. Many are forced by economics and lack of other opportunities. That's not choice. (nt)

[JonLP24]

15. +1000

I was in that very boat when I joined. In fact I was on my way to apply for a job when a recruiter encountered me on the street. As you can imagine where my state of mind was when I've spent months applying for dozens of jobs a day just for a recruiter to come and say to me, "What kind of job trains you for over 200 different kind of jobs?"

[NJmaverick]

17. that certainly is a valid point

There is certainly more pressure on the lower class to volunteer than the middle or upper class. It's not a perfect asnwer, but it still seems better than forcing everyone.

[Renew Deal]

16. Good poll, but why in the Lounge?

:shrug:

[Bertha Venation]

20. Two reasons.

First, I wanted Loungers' opinions on this.

Second, this would explode within three minutes in GD, and I didn't want that to happen. I'm getting what I'd hoped for - a slow and mild discussion.

[Renew Deal]

22. Oh well

And I was just getting fitted for a flame resistant suit. :D

[SteppingRazor]

18. How about this option: End the ridiculous amount of bases we have around the world...

pull out of places like Japan and Germany, and end the war in Iraq post haste. We'd have zero problem staffing the military then.

But then again, it's not like we have a problem staffing the military now. They recruited like gangbusters this year:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/13/AR2009101303539.html

[Chan790]

19. I'm not sure...

I'm admittedly hawkish in comparison to most on DU; I see and recognize the need, if not the desirability, for most of our combat operations over the past 20 years. I'm not sure that any of those are a good idea though.

I think rather than compulsory service, we should be increasing the benefits of longer enlistments. How about 10+ years draws 3/4 pension? An additional full-term bonus for people who put in the 20 years to earn full pension? In-service free college education simultaneous to active duty (in lieu of Montgomery GI) in exchange for a longer enlistment? A dedicated and professional military is a superior one to one made up of people joining because they're being compelled or joining to short-time for GI benefits.

[JonLP24]

21. That is similar

There were in discussions to lower the retirement age for full benefits to 10 years but that was an idea that floated out there and have no idea what they've done since I've been out of the Army two years ago. The GI Bill is really a selling point because while you're in the Army college is payed for and you can attend on base. The problem with that is depending on your MOS good luck finding time off for that. I recall many people re-enlisted during deployment to stay in the same unit(rather then go elsewhere) for option for college for 6 months(called school-op). As it was supposed to be was those who did that would show up for morning formation then go straight to school, no work anything. However the commander screwed a lot of people over that(they were short on people for the several pointless jobs they had threw the day) so it was a rotation while the first people had their chances they were cut short and the people on the second rotation never got the school option and did the same pointless work as the rest of us from 6:30am to 6:00pm(often later). As you can imagine a lot of people that did re-enlist for that option was pissed.

[bikebloke]

23. Except in Israel, it's 3 or 4 years

Then they have to go for reserves every year until they're 55. A friend of mine, when I worked there, wanted to leave so he could live a normal life.

Two years for women (unless they plead marriage or religiosity).

The European model would be better with the year or two, then done.

[Moondog]

24. I'm not sure I understand

the difference between a "draft" and "two years of compulsory service." I voted for the "two years" thing, but I might have gone the other way if I had understood the distinction you seem to be making.

[Bertha Venation]

26. here's how I see the difference

In a draft and in compulsory service, one has no choice. The only difference is that with compulsory service, you know it's coming. In a draft, you have to wait to see if you're called.

[Aristus]

25. Two years' compulsory service. It doesn't have to be the military.

But it seems to me that since the end of the draft, fewer and fewer people in this country seem willing to sacrifice for a country they claim to love. Since the advent of flag waving, RamboReagan, rah-rah-rah uber-patriotism, some Americans seem to think that love of country can be amply demonstrated without any sacrifice whatsoever. Just say you're patriotic, and that's supposed to be enough. I've had it with armchair patriots. Make it law; put up or shut up.

[PVnRT]

27. Sad to see so many DUers support feeding the war machine

Very, very sad.