27 Years Old, Shutin. Being Kicked Out Of The House. At The End Of My Rope.

[Locut0s]

I've suffered from depression, social anxiety, and perfectionism for longer than I can remember. I have contemplated suicide in the past on several occasions but never strongly enough to make and real plans or attempts. It has reeked havoc with my life, especially academically. I've lost count of the number of times I've dropped out of university, probably 4 or 5 times. I've been something of a shut-in most of my life. There was a 4 year period where I worked at a 7-11, at the end ended up being the acting manager. This period is the closest I have ever come to normalcy. Even then I only managed to work well with people as customers and coworkers, I still had no personal life. I've never had a girlfriend, never dated, though I would love to have done so, chaulk that up to the social anxiety. There have been a few times when I have been free of my problems and during those times I have excelled. I graduated from High school with honours and a 4.0 GPA, and the sources that I did finish at university I usually excelled at. But before that and since then it's been down hill. My parents have been nothing but the most supportive and loving people you can imagine but through my depression and anxiety I have been little more than an *** hole in repayment. In the past few months I have become something of an alcoholic. So today it all comes to a head, my father informed me that he is kicking me out of the house. I do not blame him one bit as this is my fault all the way. My father knows something of mental problems as he himself has had more than one nervous breakdown. So his actions stem not from misunderstanding but from an inability to cope with the situation.Honestly if I were in his place I might have done so sooner, but I am at a complete ****ing loss as to what I'm going to do now.

I have been on medication. I've been on Paxil, Celexa, and beta blockers at one time or another over a period of several years. Paxil did wonders for my father. Of all the drugs Paxil worked the best for me as well but did little more than smooth out some of the downs. I am currently not on anything. I tried counselling but the woman I went to basically said, in an understanding way, that she and no one else would be willing to help me until I decided to stop drinking. As for AA that is not likely something I would be interested in being a rather strong Atheist. AA is founded on religious principals. I know there are secular organizations similar to AA, though I have never considered either one seriously yet.

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. We're not doctors, but anyone "at the end of their rope" should immediately reach out

to family or professionals, and get the most out of it that is possible. Please take care of yourself and be well.

[Locut0s]

2. Thank you. NT

[redwitch]

3. AA has transformed many, many lives.

I don't think you can be too choosy just now, you need serious help.

[elleng]

4. You may find help in some of the information here:

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/

[Locut0s]

6. Thank you for the resource. It's interesting that you are in Washington. I'm in Vancouver....

Canada. So the resources I would be looking for would most likely be in Canadian. But it's just a hop across the border ;) Well distance wise it is, health care wise, cost, not so much. But thank you VERY much for the suggestion. I did not get a good feel for the resource you posted but from a quick summary I would reiterate the fact that true AA style intervention is not very likely to work for a strong Atheist.

[elleng]

7. You don't necessarily have to GO there,

but read some of the stuff. Dr. Milam's stuff is science.

Best of luck.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Chapter 2 of the AA 12 and 12 states that many have chosen to use AA itself as a higher power

and have gotten the required results. Empirically, the group presents the fact of the possibility of recovery, so you can have faith in the group if you wish.

[NNadir]

21. Well, you could tell yourself that the "higher power" is biochemistry, and, in fact,

you'd be right.

I'm an atheist myself, but if I were a drinker, I would consider AA. It seems to have worked well for several of my friends.

[Demoiselle]

5. Please please don't give up.

Your post sounds very honest to me. You sound intelligent and observant. Such people are in short supply, and we need you in the world. I hope you will think about the times and places you have excelled (like that 4.0 GPA!) and reach out for help. You mention a woman you saw for "counseling". ..it sounded to me like she wasn't trying very hard to be helpful. Please please seek help anywhere and everywhere you can. I wish I knew more specific things to help you. I do know that a good psychiatrist helped me at a very hard point in my life.

[mdmc]

8. Well, hang in there my friend

sounds like ya got quite a scene there. Feel free to check out our MH group here on DU..

Hey - Have ya ever read anything by Charles Bukowski? Might as well..

[TK421]

9. Why don't you check your PM in about twenty minutes or so....as anything

said to you in this post could, possibly be misconstrued as someone giving you medical advice, and that is NOT what I'll give you at all...plus, it's against forum rules to begin with.

I think I know what's going on here....give me about twenty minutes or so...stick around

[pitohui]

10. well it's tough with medication resistant mental illness but...

as far as the atheism issue, have you tried rational recovery?

i live in the deep south and most atheists/agnostics/wiccans/pagans etc that i've known personally have done is go to AA but to reserve their own opinion of what their "higher power" is

why can't your "higher power" be your own super conscious that you haven't yet been able to contact because of the alcohol?

right now you have a choice to be homeless or give up drinking and you are still making excuses for why you should avoid AA and keep on drinking...this should suggest to you that you a disease beyond depression (alcoholism)

we're all rooting for you but your dad has made a decision not to enable you anymore, be honest, if you weren't being put out of his home, you would likely continue the drinking, wouldn't you?

think of the higher power/god thing as a brain trick that people play on themselves to change their lives, you can still be an atheist and use the tool/trick, i've seen it done

good luck, you CAN do this, you just don't know it yet

[MrsBrady]

11. spiritual principals, not religious principals...

and I know atheists in AA and Al-anon.

just saying....and it's free.

fwiw

[Kali]

12. its ok to go to AA

explore all possibilities
perfection is a REAL problem - it allows lots of excuses - beware, it is probably what is causing the atheist block to AA (although the reasons you give are legitimate, I would say try it first - the people may be the help you need rather than the program)

[BreweryYardRat]

13. Wait, what?

I tried counselling but the woman I went to basically said, in an understanding way, that she and no one else would be willing to help me until I decided to stop drinking.

Your so-called "counselor" needs to lose her fucking license. (That little remark of hers might even be sufficient grounds for it.)

No decent psychologist, counselor, or therapist will refuse to help you just because you have an alcohol problem. Yeah, they'll want you to work with them about it, they might even want you to go to AA as part of the therapy process, but they'll also try to help you with your other issues.

[pitohui]

17. read for comprehension, my friend -- that woman knows more abt alcoholics than you do BY FAR

the OP wrote: but the woman I went to basically said, in an understanding way...

anyone who has ever met an alcoholic knows that "she basically said" means that the alcoholic is reinterpreting what she really said to suit himself

the counselor and the father are sick of the enabling and they are telling him he has to stop drinking

there is nothing wrong or unethical in that, and to say she needs to lose her license is bullshit

the drunk needs to stop putting words in other people's mouth and saying what they "basically" said and listening to what they REALLY said -- in this case, that he isn't gonna get well until he stops the damn drinking

[RobinA]

18. You're Both Wrong

Old style (not that old) therapy said you have to treat the substance abuse before even thinking about dealing with the mental health. A lot of people still think this way. Thankfully, at long last and far too late, they are coming around slowly, much too slowly, to treating the substance use and the mental health together.

OP, find another therapist. One who treats co-occuring mental health and substance issues. Keep looking until you find one. Alcohol will pretty much torpedo any attempts to successfully use antidepressants, so don't give up on medication, just don't expect them to work while you are drinking.

[pitohui]

23. a bit on the doctor shopping side of things

should michael jackson have accepted he was a drug addict and done some more rehab, or should he have kept shopping doctors until he found one that "understood" that giving up the drugs wasn't all that damn easy?

call me old, damn, i'm not insulted because i AM old but his former counselor had it right -- as long as he's drinking and making excuses for why he can't deal with the drinking, he's fucked

at what point is "co"treating the addict's problems just a way to take the addict's family's money without any genuine hope of finding a solution?

if you're bleeding to death, you stop the bleeding first, you don't humor the person and say you'll "co" treat their problems, you stop the freaking bleeding

if i'm wrong, i'm wrong, but i honestly support the counselor here

dude needs to stop drinking, he doesn't need more excuses for why he shouldn't/can't stop drinking

[Locut0s]

28. Being the OP I actually agree with you. Which is why...

I've stopped drinking and am going to make every effort not to drink from here on out. Luckily I don't have a history of drinking that goes back any more than about a year so it's still fairly early.

[otherlander]

15. Hey...

I was stuck in a hellish alternative school a couple of years ago and basically feeling chewed up and spit out every fucking day, and in one of my midnight-to-3-a.m. computer-fixed trances I came across the Icarus Project... It's a really cool social network of us madfolks ("mentally ill," but that term was just used as a replacement for mad/insane to reduce the social stigma, and it hasn't really worked very well at doing so, and besides, how well does the medical model really apply to people's emotions, especially when they're often a reaction to social circumstances, abuse, isolation, confusion about life?), including a lot of free-thinkers, anarchists, etc., tho they've never given me shit about not being an anarchist myself, and the setup, focusing on people's well-being, fortunately tends not to attract the obnoxious radical-chic hipster types; mostly just good folks who want to live without the fear of power/coercion.
That's the other thing; it's not just mental-health support, it's also very anti- forced-medication, though if you check it out and decide that you want to sign up I promise no one will scoff at you for choosing to take whatever meds make you feel better... and if anyone does I'll kick their ass.
There's also an emphasis on questioning what is considered "sick": homosexuality used to be considered insanity too; women who didn't fit gender roles were considered "hysterical", etc., and things have changed a lot, but maybe not as much as we think they have.
I post over there a lot, but don't feel like disclosing my Icarus screen name on DU, although if someone here felt like being creepy-stalker about it they could probably figure it out. I'm in America, but here are some threads about people in Canada looking to maybe get some live face-to-face meetings going:
http://theicarusproject.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14353&highlight=vancouver
http://theicarusproject.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13534&highlight=vancouver
I've been to some of their meetings in Manhattan and found them to be pretty kickass.

[JonLP24]

16. I can't think of any worthy advice

But I'm sympathetic to your situation. I wish you the best of luck to you. :hug: It may not help but I want you to climb out of this hole you're in. :)

[Locut0s]

19. UPDATE:

Well a small update. I'm not really getting kicked out. I am vowing to myself not to drink again at lest for the next month or more, I am not physically dependant. I have started taking Paxil again and am probably going to get a referral to see a psychologist again. I just feel so ****ing lost and at my wits end!!! As you can see from my original post I DID work at a 7-11 for 4 years successfully but I never saw that as something I would end up doing as a career. My interests are in computers, mathematics and science. I know I can cut it academically if only I could some how fix my incredibly screwed up emotional and social life. I made the mistake of quitting my 711 job too early to go back to university only to drop out, what is this the 5th time or something? I am now looking at getting another job, probably in retail just so I don't sink into that emotional bottomless pit I'm hanging over. I guess one of the problems is that my whole life I have been told by my family and extended family that I am somehow special. That I am somewhat gifted. Add to this the fact that my extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents) are extreme competitively and you have a recipe for great success or great failure. Both my father and mother are extremely supportive and never directly contributed to this feeling but somehow I still internalized the idea that I had to make something of myself academically. I just can't get over the stark contrast between what was supposed to be and what is. I pictured myself at 27 with a life working in a physics lab somewhere doing research. Instead I'm a 27 year old who's probably going to be working behind a retail counter, living at home with his parents, afraid to go out, lacking any semblance of a social life, academically lost. I just can't reconcile the two. All I want to do is hide from the world and the judging eyes of my extended family (not my immediate family).

I have something of a plan moving forward but I've come back to square one emotionally so many times that I'm starting to loose hope of ever finding the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

[elehhhhna]

24. you are so young

be kind to yourself...27 is still very tender, especially if you tend to be a loner.

They can't all be wrong -- you are special.

One day at a time. You're going places!

[Odin2005]

26. Hope you end up OK!

:hug:

[City of Mills]

20. Perfectionism

How does that manifest? Are you insanely clean? Driven to do everything perfectly?

You must be disappointed a lot if you're not meeting your own expectations of how things should be...

I used to be a perfectionist, and the older I got, the more it began controlling me. I had to learn to let go.

IMO that is the worst symptom you've shared, and has a lot to do with your social anxiety, drinking and fear of failure.

So what were the reasons you dropped out of school? Lack of focus, weren't making the grades you expected, general anxiety?

[Locut0s]

27. Yeah perfectionism gnaws at the soul...

Basically a combination of all of the above. Accept the insanely clean/neat freak, that's one symptom I don't have. The combination of depression and perfectionism is a real doozy. The reasons I dropped out of school are myriad but can probably be distilled down to social phobia, depression/anxiety, and perfectionism in equal numbers. I've always had difficulty making friends, I actually push people away when I start to get too close, so I've never had the social network to back me up during the times I've been down. When I could cut it I did very well in high school, graduated with a 4.0 GPA, but when depression did rear it's head I simply failed to do any work at all. This problem was exacerbated at university where I've had a horrible record of dropping whole semesters 1/2 way through. Part of my problem at university is I was always too anxious to put in the necessary study time, that and in high school I never needed to study much. So I'd make it 1/2 way through a semester making good to OK grades but not putting in nearly enough time, due to anxiety, when suddenly I'd be hit with the realization that I was about to be overwhelmed. I've come to the realization that to succeed at university requires one to be fairly well emotionally grounded. Something that seems obvious in hindsight, though isn't that always the way. I was just light years away from being in the right head space necessary for that type of work. Academically I knew I could cut it but emotionally I was often in a situation where I'd open up a text and as far as I was concerned the exercise might was well have been a billion pages long or written in Greek.

The emotional problems that underly all this mess are of course more complex and go back far further, to when I was a kid. Looking back at it now I've had emotional difficulties since at least the age of 5 or 6.

[faithnotgreed]

30. you are beautiful - and beautifully self aware

there is so much maturity and depth and tender heart even in the little you have shared here
clearly there is much more to know about you but from the bit we can see you are well in touch with yourself which is a wonderful gift
you may feel an old soul with all you have been through but you are so very young

i cannot help but be struck by your last 2 sentences in this post
this is a job only for kind professionals but i very much hope that you can get the help you need to work through these formative events or conditions in your childhood

wishing you a long journey of peace and healing...
please let us know how you are

[Locut0s]

41. Thank you very much for the kind response! Though I do not feel much better...

I do have something of a plan moving forward. For one I am not drinking any more and for another I am going to go see a psychologist.

Thanks :)

[faithnotgreed]

43. something of a plan is putting it mildly

those are amazing things

i really am in awe of your maturity and willingness to see
looking at the hard stuff in ourselves and in our lives rarely comes without a lot of pain but actually doing something as you are is just phenomenal

i am sorry you dont feel much better but it is early - you may not feel it yet but with what you have done it is already better

please be patient with yourself and again let us know how you are doing

[cherish44]

46. You're on the right track then!

You can do it

[Taverner]

22. Check out Rational Recovery - its a recovery program for us Athiests and Free Thinkers

[Deep13]

37. two points...

One, the problem based on the OP's OP is depression and anxiety, not necessarily addiction. Consequently, there are treatment options, but no "recovery" to be had since the disorder is not caused by voluntary behavior.

Second, while Rational Recovery is certainly nonreligious, I would like to see some evidence that it actually works before recommending it to people. My chief complaint with AA is that it doesn't work. Any group of addicts can talk through their problems, but there is seems to be no evidence to suggest that the 12 steps or other aspects of the "program" have any positive effect on treating addiction. Since it depends on the intervention of a nonexistent god to retore its members to sanity, how could it work?

[MichiganVote]

25. You don't have to believe in God to go to AA. You DO have to be willing to stop

making excuses for yourself. Are you willing to do that? If not, then you'll do something when you're finally sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Good luck.

[astral]

29. The point in believing in a "power greater than" yourself is to

remind you that you are not the center of the universe, and if there is a God, he/she/it is not you.

It relieves you of a great psychological burden, and simply opens doors to open-mindedness. You do not have to pursue God in your adventures. God comes to some of us but it is not a necessity that everyone ends up knowing God.

Alcohol is greater than you, so you need to be open to finding a power greater than you to get beyond alcohol. I do not say 'overcome' alcohol, because it is always there, and fighting it you will always lose.

There is much to be learned, one day at a time, in the presence of others on the same path. Check it out.

[Deep13]

33. That's double talk.

Any reasonable reading of the so-called Big Book as well as the steps and the prayers all indicate that the power greater than onesself is a god capable of granting redemption, which is the Christian god. There are plenty of powers greater than us, but they do not have the power to restore us to sanity. The OP needs real psychiatric treatment, not hocus pocus.

[MichiganVote]

38. Actually many people w/dual diagnosis have found AA to be beneficial

You are wrong about AA relying on a Christian God. That may be your interpretation but all you really prove is that you do not take into consideration the traditions. As for the issue of redemption, that comes as a part of working the steps. Its all a process. AA is not hocus pocus and you do yourself and millions of people a disservice by arrogantly claiming as much. Like you said, you are not the center of the universe.

[Dogtown]

31. AA is grounded more in spirituality than religion

I'm a committed atheist also. The "higher power" concept is devised to take your "control" issues out of the equation, since a tendency to being controlling is a primary symptom of dependency.

I suggest you actually try several meetings before you opt out of AA based on your religious principals. If you live in an urban area, you are likely to find an atheist chapter of AA available.

Alcohol abuse can cause or elevate all of the emotional problems you are experiencing. Compounding that abuse with the use of additional mood-altering chemicals, even if prescribed, is a VERY bad idea. You *really* need to stop drinking.


The choice must be yours, but *nothing* will get better unless you get clear of alcohol and/or drugs.

If you need more information feel free to PM me.

[Deep13]

34. I respectfully disagree.

The history of AA and its literature and practices indicate it is founded not only on Christianity, but evangelical Protestant Christianity.

[Deep13]

32. OP says he's not interested in AA. Stop proselytizing.

It IS a religious organization. The OP needs psychiatric treatment and not a bunch of canned slogans and prayers. You all think you are helping, but seeing all of your responses looks to me like sharks sensing blood in the water.

There is no evidence that the "program" helps anyone, especially considering its enormous failure rate. (Spare me the anecdotes. The fact that someone stops drinking the same time he or she goes to AA does not mean the AA caused the sobriety. It may in fact be the other way around.)

_____________________________________________________________________________________


Apart from that, I'm sorry to hear of your situation. I wonder if there is an in-patient program to help with your depression. Depression is a psychiatric disorder and is not your fault. Nevertheless, you are the only one who can do anything about it.

[LynneSin]

35. AA is founded on the concept of a 'Greater Power out there'

and have total respect for anyone who is an Atheist who might need their services. (or non-Christian).

Sometimes that 'Greater Power' is just that inner you trying to break free and help get your life back in order.

[Deep13]

36. With respect, the literature and practices of AA say otherwise.

God is mentioned about half a dozen times just in the 12-steps. The whole premise of AA is that one is to turn over control of his or her life to god and divest oneself of any control over ones problem. This is typified in the official slogan--one of many--"Let Go Let God." Turning ones life over to god is an evangelical Christian concept.

This of course is beside the fact that even if AA did work, the OP's problem is depression and anxiety and not alcoholism. He needs pshychiatric treatment for those medical disorders and not nonexistent divine intervention.

Frankly all of these pro-AA posts are off topic, especially when the OP specifically stated he was not interested in AA.

[conscious evolution]

39. You think alkies pay attention

to what the book says? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

We take what we can use and leave the rest.

[Deep13]

45. fair enough

:thumbsup:

[madeline_con]

42. It begins with the premise that the substance abuser has no control.

That is a defeatist attitude when trying to kick. Poor me, I'm doomed to be a hopeless alcoholic/crackaddict/whatever for the rest of my life.

[Locut0s]

40. Thanks for all the support! *** About the AA argument ***...

I'm surprised it became such a large part of the discussion. At the time I posted this I was at a particularly low point. Though I do not feel much better I am not out of control. The largest component of my problem by far is the underlying sociophobia, anxiety and depression. The alcohol use was a form of self medication one that I have since stopped. I don't feel much better but I am in control of myself enough to know when to stop. I know that if I had continued I would be definitely be in alcoholic rehab sooner or latter. I did not want to see that outcome. Sometime this week I am going to see my doctor and get a referral to a psychiatrist.

EDIT: I've had some people mention medical costs in other threads I've posted. A note, that I'm living in Canada so luckily that is not something that is a big issue. Here's hoping you guys down south manager to pass something of a public option. Though that is looking less and less likely :(

[cherish44]

44. The cure is you

Overcoming depression can be hard work (I've been there). Sure there are medications that can help lift the fog and balance the brain chemistry but no doctor or medication is a "magic wand". I can't give you any medical or psychological advice but I can say, you turn your life around if you're willing to do the work. And I disagree with those who think your counselor is wrong...you need to stop drinking or she can't help with your issues. Like I said counselors are not magicians, they're trained to help but with depression and addiction, the bottom line is the person has to be willing to help themselves and change. I know it's not easy to stop drinking but millions have done it (with AA and with other methods) There are people who can help you but you're the only one who can cure you.