Question for grammar people

[lizerdbits]

Should a period ever be outside quotation marks? I wrote a protocol at work containing the title of a document in quotation marks. Someone moved the period outside the quotation marks when she reviewed it. I thought they should be inside and the book from my freshman year of college seems to agree. This person is originally from Australia, but I don't think there are different punctuation rules. Any advice would be appreciated. :)

[madinmaryland]

1. The period should be inside the quote.

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

[yewberry]

2. There are different rules in other countries.

You were correct to keep the punctuation inside the quotation marks.

I'm editing a book right now that came from a British source, and all of the punctuation reflects the British conventions. x(

[lizerdbits]

4. Thanks

I didn't think there were different conventions but it looks like I was wrong.

[lizerdbits]

5. Thanks for the help!

:hi:

Duh! This should be a reply to my OP for all who responded.

[zanne]

7. That's interesting.

I know that I sound like a geek, but what are some other differences you've noticed?

[yewberry]

11. First is the punctuation outside of quotation marks.

That's probably the most prominent difference, other than spelling. Here, we use Dr. for Doctor and Mr. for Mister...the British use Dr and Mr in those cases. Oh, and the British are less likely to hyphenate multiple-word adjectival forms like first-class.

[mix]

3. That person is wrong.

In American usage, the period goes inside the quotation marks.

[zanne]

6. I've been doing it the foreign way all my life.

I was an English major, and I sometimes place the period outside of the quotation marks. Could all those teachers have been wrong? If I write a complete phrase inside of quotation marks, I'll place the period inside the quotation,
but if it's just a word, I place on the outside. I must admit, though, that my grammar has taken a beating since I graduated from college some 30 years ago. I could very well be wrong and people have been too polite to tell me.

[mix]

8. Even for words, the period goes inside...

...it is a very minor grammatical mistake though, compared to misusing verb tenses, adjectives, adverbs, etc. British usage is different and since we are exposed to so much English language material from both countries, it seems natural that there would be some confusion over this minor point.

In American usage, the only exception is numbers and letters, then the period goes outside.

[elocs]

33. I was an English minor and I do it both ways depending.

Is it wrong? "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn".

[KansDem]

41. What if it's a quote (or title) within a quote and using a single quotation mark?

Would it be written:
The man replied, "Just like Clark Gable, I say 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn'."

Or would the period be inside the single quotation mark, written as:
The man replied, "Just like Clark Gable, I say 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.'"

[elocs]

42. The comments in my local newspaper appear in quotation marks

so when I post there and use a quotation I put it in single quote marks.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. The Chicago Manual of Style -

that's what my publisher (HarperCollins) uses.

I learned to put it outside the quotation marks - which, logically, makes more sense, if the quote title is just part of the sentence - from Strunk and White's "Elements Of Style."

So, even in our country, there are differing styles....................

[nuxvomica]

9. I have a simple rule: for terms, outside; for quotations, inside.

This just seemed the most rational way to go about it. The American practice of putting the period inside the quotes for terms is irrational.

Example:

As we pulled the dead narwhal into the boat, the caption broke off the animal's "horn". "I'll have a special use for that," he said, "In a few months' time."

[XemaSab]

10. You can do it that way, but you'll be wrong

:P

[nuxvomica]

18. Well I might be wrong but at least I'm not "dead wrong".

There are arguments in favor of my approach, such as Rabrrrrrr's below. This may be like my insistence that single-syllable words ending in sibilant "s"'s require apostrophe-"s"es and not just apostrophes.

BTW, the word in my example was supposed to be "captain", not "caption". :dunce:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. I agree,

and that's how I do it when I write.

But, when I get the author's proof back from my publisher, invariably, the period is inside the quotation marks. They use the Chicago Manual of Style, and I think it's just plain wrong......................

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. British countries put punctuation outside the quotes.

It's an old holdover from the printing press days when commas and periods needed to be inside the quote because he quote physically helped hold the punctuation in place in the press.

Common recent practice has been that, if the quotes in question are enclosing spoken words, then punctuation stays inside; but if the quoted material is quoted because it's a name or something, the punctuation goes outside.

For instance,

Tom said, "I am stupid."

But:

Gerry rode up in his new bike which he calls a "barcalounger".

Or:

Last night, I ate at "Fridays".

Makes more sense to put the period outside the quotes in those instances, since the punctuation actually belongs to the sentence, not to the quoted material.

[krispos42]

21. I think I've been doing it this way without even realizing it.

I mentally blocked out all my grammer (grammar?) classes. I think I was drawing spaceships engaged in laser battles. Pew pew pew!



But after reading your post, I think that's what I've been doing all this time!

[Haole Girl]

15. You could be like E. E. Cummings...

be creative with your punctuation. I like to think that's what I do! ;-)

[begin_within]

16. When I worked at a newspaper a few years back, the rule was

everything goes inside the quotes. I can't think of a single time when there was an exception to that. Personally though I feel it looks weird and I think it looks better to put inside the quotes only what was quoted and nothing else. But that's not the rule apparently. The "rule sucks".

[Haole Girl]

17. There are times the period goes on the outside of the quotation mark

As confusing as it may be...

http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html

[Lex]

19. That says the American style is keep commas & periods inside the quotes.

From your link:

"Anyway, the point is that if you are an American, you need to keep your commas and periods inside your closing quotation marks, where they belong."

[Haole Girl]

25. You didn't read all of it.

The only exception is when that last little item enclosed in quotation marks is just a letter or a number, in which case the period or comma will go outside the closing quotation marks.

[Lex]

26. The OP asked specifically about "the title of a document in quotation marks . . . "

Not letters or numbers.

I did read whole link but I commented on the relevant portion.

[Haole Girl]

27. Was I replying to the OP?

No.

[Lex]

28. Breathe through it.

nt

[Haole Girl]

30. Ya know...

I've no idea what I've done to be granted your consistent disrespect. Nor do I care to know. Just ignore my posts & I'll try to ignore yours.

[Lex]

31. I didn't even look

to see who wrote the post I replied to until your "Was I replying to the OP?" post. I was curious who would take a grammar link so personally.

Figures.

[Haole Girl]

32. You know very well...

it was not the discussion about grammar I found aggravating.

[UTUSN]

20. If the quoted word/phrase is UNTO itself, YES, the punctuation should be OUTSIDE. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

22. Can you give the specific example?

There are times the period should be outside the quotes.

[lizerdbits]

35. It involves a client name so I'll have to improvise

The purpose of this partial validation is to assess the accuracy and precision of an ASSAY outlined in CLIENT'S SOP "TITLE OF DOCUMENT." Assay, client and title of document are substitutions. I hope that's not too confusing. :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. Logically, the British usage of putting the period outside the quotes is correct

because the quote marks contain something; the period belongs to the sentence that is outside the marks.

How would any American use parentheses and a period? I'd write:

The purpose of this partial validation is to assess the accuracy and precision of an ASSAY outlined in CLIENT'S SOP (which is unknown).

and I'd write:

The purpose of this partial validation is to assess the accuracy and precision of an ASSAY outlined in CLIENT'S SOP "Title of Document".

Would an American write:

The purpose of this partial validation is to assess the accuracy and precision of an ASSAY outlined in CLIENT'S SOP (which is unknown.)

to match their use of the quote marks?

[yewberry]

37. Logical or not, it's not really optional.

For exclamation points and question marks, the meaning drives the placement. The same is true of parentheses. Commas and periods, though...these are almost invariably placed inside the quotation marks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. Of course it's optional - that's why the British (and Australians, it seems)

opt to leave the punctuation in the sentence, rather than move it into the quote.

[yewberry]

39. Allow me to amend.

In order to be considered correct in the US, it is not optional.

[lizerdbits]

40. I would put the period after the parentheses

My understanding is that commas, periods and parentheses are placed inside the quotes but colons and semicolons outside. Exclamation points and question marks depended on whether it was part of the quotation or not. In my case, the period is not part of the document title. What I learned was an absolute rule and didn't depend on whether it was part of the quotation. If the convention has changed, then I need to change where I'm placing it.

[ZombieHorde]

43. I believe the quotes around proper titles exclude the punctuation unless the title is punctuated.

"Family Feud".

"Who Wants to be a Millionaire?"

I personally use italics instead of quotes for proper titles on my school papers to avoid this problem. I should really ask several different professors to see what they have to say.

[Strong Atheist]

23. I never ask grammar people questions...

they will answer...

[Captain Hilts]

24. Possible outside a single quotation mark ' but not a double. nt

[Robb]

29. When I worked at a newspaper

...we complicated matters slightly for the benefit of the reader when single and double quotation marks wound up together.

In that situation, we stuck the period in between to make it easier to read. To wit:

"We were never inside the house," said Officer Bob, "despite what you may have heard from 'Diddy'." :)

[Duer 157099]

34. This has been so vexing to me that I've come to just

never end my sentence with something in quotes. I'll find a way to add another word or more, just to avoid the dilemma altogether.

[Mariana]

45. OMG I thought I was the only one

so frigging anal-retentive about my punctuation! I do that too! You've made my day!

[Mariana]

44. My solution:

Italicize, underline or boldface the title of the document, or use all caps, rather than putting it in quotation marks.

That said, I was taught always to place the period inside the quotation marks, but I don't like doing it unless it's a quote. It just doesn't feel right.

[RedCloud]

46. Fuck yeah lizerdbits!

Should a period ever be outside quotation marks?

Watch how I make an absolute mockery of an absolute.

"Should a period ever be outside quotation marks?" Watch the period at the end of this fucking sentence. Did you see it? Here comes another one.

Clearly they can and will for as long as the period shall exist!

Or perhaps you did not mean to write "ever".

"I did not know if you saw my period, you pervert."

"I didn't look for your fucking period. Period!"