Question about child discipline

[crimsonblue]

How do you feel about spanking a misbehaving or unruly child?

[PaddyBlueEyes]

1. I have only swatted my children on the rear about three times

every time because they were doing something that could cause injury.

[Haole Girl]

2. Don't spank

children, that is.

[knowbody0]

3. against it totally

violence begets violence, teaches the child only that might rules. there are so many other ways to get the appropriate behavior, be creative and use logic as your load star.

[madinmaryland]

4. Try posting this in GD!

:hide:

[Believing Is Art]

5. My mom did it to me and my brother

We had the Apple Paddle. It was hand-carved, stained, with lovingly hand-painted apples on it and a little leather cord. My mom kept saying it had my name on it, but I never found it anywhere.

If parents don't want to or they have a hard time controlling anger, then they shouldn't. As a general rule, I don't think a spanking should hurt any more than the scrapes and bruises they get playing around. If the child doesn't tolerate pain very well when playing, spanking would be traumatic. OTOH, neither my brother nor I considered it a good day unless we looked like we'd been through a meat grinder. Sure we cried when we got spanked. It wasn't on our terms and we knew we were in trouble. It worked and we got the message. When we got a little older, we started requesting the paddle instead of time-outs. It hurt less than most of the dumb things we did to ourselves and it was a quick form of punishment. That's when my mom stopped using it.

Sometimes it's a really bad idea, sometimes it's an effective form of discipline. I don't think you can paint all parents who spank their child as abusive, but I don't think you can say it's an appropriate disciplinary tool in every household, either.

[Madrone]

6. I think laying hands on a child is lazy parenting.

And counterproductive. And nonsensical. And inappropriate. And hypocritical.

[MajorChode]

10. I don't see how it's hypocritical...

unless you're spanking them for hitting someone else, but everything else I would agree with. I think most spank because that's the way they were raised, but there's far more effective methods for behavior modification.

[Madrone]

14. The reason I say hypocritical...

Adults would not think it appropriate for say.... their boss... to pop them one for not behaving as he/she wished. Yet (some) adults find it appropriate to smack a child to make them behave. Hypocritical.

[MajorChode]

21. A child is not an adult and vise versa

I would think it's inappropriate for a boss to put an employee in time out because they were late to work or to give them praise because they didn't shit in their pants either. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Children and adults have different expectations and require different methods of behavior modification.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[Sabriel]

61. Yep, adultism

A good policy is to treat people (of any age) in a way that wouldn't offend you.

[Madrone]

18. Forgot to say ...

I agree that I think most people spank because it's how they were raised, so I don't really judge them for it. I more view them as "unenlightened."

There are a lot of things I think people do, not because they are bad people, but because they've never stopped and THOUGHT about it before. It's just "the way they were raised", or "how it's always been done" ... nothing more, nothing less. I've seen that in effect in everything from racist language to ignorance about gays to child discipline to circumcision and eating meat, etc. (* real world examples of things many people never CONSIDER - not seeking to start any wars) I think there are a lot of things that a lot of people take for granted and never view from another angle.

[MajorChode]

22. Simply doing things the way you were raised is really no excuse

If someone makes the choice to become a parent (and unless you are raped everyone does), then they should accept the responsibility that comes with it. Part of that responsibility is learning the proper way to raise a child and doing your best. I'm not the perfect parent, so I'm not really going to judge other people who spank, but I don't agree with it. Even though I was spanked as a child I have never spanked my own kids. There are far more effective ways of dealing with them.

[keroro gunsou]

39. bill engvall:

"the other day i was watching my son playing with the neighbor boy, and he hit him. i walked over, whopped him on the head and said, "we don't hit." he looked at me and said, "here's YOUR sign, dad." "

[MajorChode]

41. I actually saw a woman do this in the grocery store a few months back

Apparently the kid had smacked his baby sister as she was crying. The mother came over, took his hand, and administered no less than three strokes across the back of his hand. After each one she chanted, "WE...DON'T...HIT". I almost fell over laughing and then she got pissed off at me. Sorry lady, I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

[marzipanni]

7. I feel like it goes against the Golden Rule

Notice the positive things they do, and let them know what you want them to do, instead of telling them what you don't want them to do, or getting angry.
Usually parents swat or spank out of fear, if the child has almost done something dangerous, or out of frustration.

I saw a good thing a mother did recently. She and her ~2 1/2-yr-old boy were walking out of the grocery store. She calmly said, "Where are we going?" and he said, "Parking lot", she said "what do we have to watch out for in a parking lot?", and he replied "Cars!" It was nice because she was having him think, instead of yanking his arm and commanding, "Stop! Stay with me!"

[MajorChode]

8. I'm against it completely

I've found that waving a gun around is far more effective anyway, and there's always the option of selling them to a sweat shop in Mexico.

[unpossibles]

26. +1

HAHAHA!

I agree. I'm not a parent, and for the most part I think there are better ways to discipline, but I also don't think it's wise to remove all options from the table. If a child knows he won't be spanked, then that gives him/her power. Plus, what if there is a ticking time bomb scenario?

There's also the tactic of extraordinary rendition to Grandma's house.

:spank:

FWIW, my parents spanked but not that often and usually only in extreme circumstances. However, I do think they went to Secret Ninja training camp or something, because they seemed to know all these pressure points on my elbows which got me to immediately stop misbehaving.

[keroro gunsou]

40. major chode

another proud graduate of the dr. denis leary school of parenting. :D

still laugh at that bit about his kids to this day.

[MajorChode]

42. I stole a bit of his material

But it's not as if he didn't steal it from someone else.

[Forkboy]

9. It's just might makes right. I'd never do it.

Give the kid away instead...

:yoiks:

[Believing Is Art]

15. "Give the kid away instead . . ."?!?!?!

How can you possibly be so insensitive? In these hard times, there are many families struggling to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. Yet here you are advocating that they give away their misbehaving children.

Don't you have any idea what an able-bodied youngster would fetch on the black market?

[Forkboy]

17. Heh...I like the cut of your jib.

:evilgrin:

[MajorChode]

23. Why sell them when you can chain them to a sewing machine?

Withholding food and water is an extremely effective production tool, and there's a tremendous market on ebay for homemade durable goods.

[Bucky]

11. Bush is out of office; it's really too late to teach him a lesson.

[sasquatch]

12. I think children should be beat at least once a week

:silly:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. Never........

No one should ever hit anyone else, but an adult should never hit a child.

Never.

It's hard work, but when they're being really bad is when they need a parent most. It's how they learn about boundaries.

Parenting is damn hard work ............................

[laylah]

55. A story...

My dad passed away 25 years ago tomorrow. My youngest was 5 weeks old, had colic, and NEVER stopped crying. I did breast feed but there was little comfort for her.

I spent 3 weeks with my Mom after Daddy passed, Hana SCREAMED no less than 18 hours a day. One day, while there, I found myself frustrated, tired, and angry. I tossed this wee baby onto the bed (did not THROW, was not "vehement" but very, VERY frustrated and tired). That was, as I said, 25 years ago.

The action scared the bejesus out of me to the point I NEVER, EVER, EEEEEEEEEEVER, hit or touched either child again, out of anger or frustration. I did; however, break blood vessels in both hands from hitting walls, counters, my face :silly:, whatever it took.

All of this said, I DO believe in smacks on the butt...IMVHO, that is what God/dess created butts for. You can only "reason" so much with a 2-5 year old. Flame away. My kids were/are loved, needed very few butt smacks, and are fine to this day.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

16. Interesting you should mention this...

The other day I was in the grocery store with my 10 year old. We were both horrified by a tabloid paper in the checkout line that had pictures of some celebrity or other spanking her little girl.
How humiliating for that poor child to have her embarrassing moment splashed on the cover of a magazine for everyoneto look at. :(

Having been spanked for misbehaving, spanked for doing nothing at all, spanked for lying, and spanked until I confessed to doing something I didn't do, my experience is that spanking degrades and humiliates, plants seeds of resentment toward the punisher, and can help children on their way to a lifetime of self-doubt.

I realize that every child may not be affected this way, but I can attest to the fact that at least one has been. People need to think very carefully before they strike a child. I'd be willing to bet that most spankers do not, and that most spankings are the result of a knee-jerk reaction to anger.

[Quantess]

25. But, "this hurts me more than it hurts you."

........

[GoddessOfGuinness]

29. If only I had a buck for every time I heard that...

It probably did hurt him to be reminded of his own abuse as a child. Too bad he felt it had to be passed along from generation to generation...a family tradition.

[tigereye]

38. good thinking as usual, Goddess

[GoddessOfGuinness]

46. Thanks, friend...

:hi:
Hope you all had a nice Father's Day! :toast:

[tigereye]

56. well, we did the dinner for my husband last week - he's not really a fan of

doing things on the official "day", but we took my dad out for lunch at a cool local Mexican chain here and it was fun.

I had sangria, it's that time of year!


:hi:

[Iris]

51. Was it Kate from Jon & Kate + 8? I heard that she did that to one of her kids.

And that was my first thought - the public humiliation that is now permanent record as well.

[hamsterjill]

54. Yes, and there are pictures

I would imagine the existence of those pictures will not bode well for Kate in future divorce/custody hearings.

[flvegan]

19. No opinon.

My parents never swatted me, I never swatted my ex-wife's kid. I think that there may be better ways, but I'm not any sort of expert.

Shit...a Punisher avatar with no good answer. I suck.

[handmade34]

20. no spanking

5 kids, schooled in psychology, taught school (mostly at-risk kids)... never saw striking a child as an effective tool to modify behavior. Natural consequences are the best tool; although my observation and studies show that loving parents that spank produce people that are better adjusted that non-spanking parents who ignore or do not give their children positive attention.

Prevention is the best medicine: respect, love, time well spent, quidelines and limitations, expectations, hugs, laughter, talking, honesty....

[Quantess]

24. There are other ways.........muaha ha ha

Seriously, there are other, more effective means of discipline. Discipline is worthless without positive reinforcement.

My parents never spanked any of their children. My boyfriend's parents did not spank, either, and his family is strict! (We are both mid 30s)

[av8rdave]

27. When my kids were young...

I very occasionally spanked. I was careful to never do it out of anger, and it was rare. I saved it for the "big" things: Lying, blatant disobedience, etc. I don't believe I ever really inflicted physical pain - mostly it REALLY got their attention and emphasized when they'd done something "big."

Age 6 or 7 was probably the last time for either of them. It never really seemed necessary beyond that, and not sure it would have been effective.

That being said, I often wonder how necessary it was at all. I don't believe it did any damage (again, I was very careful about when/how it was administered), but I'm not certain it did a lot of good either.

We have a great relationship, for which I'm eternally thankful!

[vadawg]

28. to each there own, i dont get involved in other families unless there is abuse

would i step in if i saw a kid getting a swat on their ass, nope, getting a beating yup, my son every so often does something that needs the slap on the wrist to get his attention, but his younger sister i dont think has ever been spanked, at least not yet.

[surrealAmerican]

30. It tends to leave children with the idea that ...

... it's ok to hit somebody who's doing something wrong. If you think your child shouldn't hit a kid who grabs one of their toys, you shouldn't do it. It sets a very bad example.

[madmom]

31. Several weeks ago I went into grocery store behind an elderly lady. We both

had to wait while the couple with young girl (8-9ish) got their cart. The mother got one, the girl decided she didn't like that one and wanted one of her own. The father told her to never mind let's go so these nice people can get their cart. The girl stomped her foot and said no I want this cart. The mother then said (daughter's name) let it go. Child was yelling at the top of her lungs by now that she wanted this cart or she wasn't moving.Through the whole episode the parents where talking to her calmly and firmly but to no avail.Dad finally got her to move enough so we could get our grocery cart, but I heard this girl yelling while I was going through the store. Finally I was about half way through(a good 15-20 minutes later) when I realized I didn't hear her any more.All through the store people kept looking in their direction to see what all the commotion was about I guess. So what would have been the correct "punishment" for this display? Obviously whatever method the parents were using was failing miserably. I'm sure some will say just let her have her cart, what's the big deal, but if they can get what they want like this on little things what will they try next? The line has to be drawn some where. I don't know if the continued out bursts were still about the grocery cart or if it escalated into something new, I do know it lasted WAY longer than it should have.

[Kali]

33. at 8 or 9, I would say that was too late

those fools have been giving in to that kid for about 5 or 6 years too long already.

now if she were a 2 or 3 year old (as she was behaving) it would be appropriate for one of the parents to remove her from the store and wait in the car with her.

I hope that is at least what they did.

[mnhtnbb]

34. Agreed. Since she's older, she should have been informed of consequences to misbehaving.

Parents need to set boundaries appropriate for each age.

An 8-9 year old can understand withdrawal of privileges; being sent to room when get home.
Play dates being rescinded, etc.

The real problem is that these parents have most likely been giving in at earlier ages or this child
wouldn't be acting out like this now.

I never spanked my either of my boys. I probably would have liked to kill them a couple of times,
but never spanked.

I didn't believe that adults hitting kids was appropriate or necessary. Seems too much like
power tripping to me. If adults want to hit somebody, they should go pick on someone their own size and age.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

43. Sounds like the girl may have a serious emotional disorder...

My son has a 9 year old friend who regularly throws tantrums similar to the one you describe, and has even been suspended for attacking a teacher. I know these parents; and they are very firm with their kids...stricter than I am with mine, really...and haven't hesitated to spank when they feel it's warranted. They've been getting psychological counseling for their son, but thus far it doesn't seem to be helping.

With regard to how to handle a tantrum such as you encountered, I'd say "punishment" is not what the girl needs. What she needs is to understand how important it is to control herself...and, because children that age are self-centered, she needs to recognize that her own happiness depends upon this self-discipline. I probably would have told the child I was concerned about her, because she was out of control. Then I'd take her someplace quieter...outside or possibly to the car...and just be with her, encouraging her to take deep breaths. When she was calmer, I'd ask her if she feels better, and if she thought she was happier feeling like this, or feeling as she did during her tantrum.

[haele]

63. I remember taking my then-11-year-old stepdaughter out shopping for the first time.

She threw a tantrum in the middle of Penney's. A lay-down-on-the-floor "you lied to me - you told me I could shop where I wanted to!" kicking and screaming tantrum. (She was not yet diagnosed bi-polar)
I told her to get up, that was enough, and we were going home. She got up, and started heading off, still yelling at me for not letting her go back to the store she wanted to go to in the mall. I held on to her elbow, she swung at me, I let her swing into a position I could get her over my shoulder, and walked out the door with her over my shoulder, telling the gawkers - "excuse me, coming through, kid having a tantrum...".
Didn't say a word, but had her dad ground her for a week after letting him inform her on how inappropriate that activity was.

Shore Patrol training. I only lifted my voice to tell her we were going home over her screams.

And it did hurt me far more than it hurt her (kid was 90 lbs and kicked like a mule)...but that was the last time she pulled that with me. She used to pull that sort of stunt with her mother all the time - and her mother always caved in before it got to the point of mom being embarrassed in public. Unlike mom, I didn't (and still don't) care - public embarrassment is not something that motivates my actions.

If a kid is capable of making the distinction of what is appropriate in public and what is not, that's one thing. If the kid is so self-centered that his or her actions are based on how much reality can be manipulated, or is incapable of self-discipline, that's another. And that, to me, is the grey area on spanking or other discipline measures.
A bystander has no idea what that particular child acknowledges to be a proper curb to inappropriate activity.

Haele

[madeline_con]

45. You could say, "Get out of the way please." and approach the carts.

I've found that many of these little hellions are so shocked that someone would dare give them a direct orde, they will move. The parents pose no threat; they've already been beaten into submission by the child.

[Name removed]

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[MineralMan]

32. Having watched a mother cat and her litter of kittens,

it seems that swats are an effective teaching method at times. Most mammals engage in it with their young. While it can be said that humans can communicate with words, that's not true until a child is able to reason to some degree.

I got swatted as a toddler for certain behaviors. It stopped the behaviors and did nothing to damage my deep affection for my parents.

We are mammals, after all.

[Iris]

52. I prefer the biting around the neck method myself.

[MineralMan]

70. Ohh....kinky...

Wait...different topic...

[Pharlo]

35. Former child here,

When we were toddlers, my mother would swat us with her hand. When we got old enough to torture through the psychological warfare parents call 'grounding', her entire punishment philosophy changed. Honestly, I would MUCH rather get swatted once and have it over than to live for a week with 'No books unless it's a textbook! If I see you reading something NOT a textbook, it'll be two weeks". That was CRUEL and INHUMAN punishment.

[Dervill Crow]

36. We had the same mother. nt

[tigereye]

37. Don't believe in it and it doesn't really work.

Can't see how violence would teach anyone anything, anyway. Much prefer time-out when the kid was younger and now, loss of privileges. Bessides, he hardly ever does anything that bad, anyway. (at least not yet!)

[Chan790]

44. If you're really asking...

About this, I am joyfully a pain in the ass. I will call the authorities. I will follow cretins to the parking lot to take down their plates so that they might be identified more easily. I will show up to hearings, testify if need be and make sworn statements to law enforcement. I will go out of my way to make sure that everybody they know is aware that they're a child-beater. I hope they lose their kids...they're better off without a violent parent.

[Iris]

53. I LOVE the lounge! This would be an entirely different discussion in GD

Who knew?

I need to hang out here more often! :)

[newcriminal]

68. For spanking a child?

[Chan790]

69. Yes, n/m

[newcriminal]

72. well, that's insane

I hope you know in a lot of states corporal punishment is legal.I personally do not spank, but find it offensive that you would try to take someone's child away if they choose to spank. I asked the question about spanking to rule out beating. Your answer was yes spanking, therefore I would find your behavior a hell of a lot more offensive than the spanker's behavior.

[Chan790]

73. I think it's a matter of interpretation of terms and definitions here maybe.

I'd condone neither...but I'd probably merely comment on it if someone gave their kid one swat on the behind. I do comment on it, in fact frequently, as I work in retail sales and people are constantly yelling "don't touch that" and giving their kid a swat right in front of me...technically, I'm supposed to call LP who is supposed to call the police as they are technically-bound by corporate policy to file a report. It's a liability thing.

I interpreting "spanking" in your question as striking a child multiple times (as in two or more) in the buttocks region and yes...I'd certainly call the police on that person; if you're the sort of person to strike a child in a public place (on the ass or elsewhere), I'm immediately concerned for what you'd do when nobody else is around. Perhaps, I'm the over-vigilant one but it comes from being the grown child of two abusive violent drunks...on whom, DCS was called repeatedly to no result.

[Deep13]

47. This is not legal advice.

I feel it is necessary at times to assert control.

[dropkickpa]

48. Hammers work wonders

Spanking is for assholes too lazy to go get the toolchest. Pffft. I'm so sick of parents these days, the slacker parenting I see is atrocious.

[Symarip]

49. My mom beat the shit out of me

I turned out great.

[applegrove]

50. Rarely and not very hard. My mom spanked me and the last time she did I just looked at her with

disgust. She never did it again.

[dugaresa]

57. my father beat me with a belt only one time that I can remember

and that was because I "ran away" for an adventure with a younger sibling and our new puppy. We ended up about .5 miles from home and my parents were freaked. How did they find us? I stopped by a friends to watch TV and tied the puppy outside to their porch rail.

The remainder of the summer I spent in family detention and couldn't leave the yard. Learned the following:

1. my parents loved me and I had seriously freaked them out; my mom was hysterical.
2. never leave the property without asking and telling them where I was going.

My mother now she was a different story, she hit more more frequently as she was home more with me. She would smack my butt with what ever was handy and I then learned that things like wire hangers hurt more because there is not enough friction to slow it down like there is with a paddle (more air drag). Did I deserve it? In retrospect, yes, I drove her nuts sometimes and I am thankful my own kids don't drive me nuts like that.

[goodnight irene]

58. It's lazy, stupid and cruel.

It's lazy because it takes no thought and is simply reactive.

Stupid, because it is a thoughtless reaction and does not address the infraction.

Cruel, because we all make mistakes and don't deserve to be hit. If you wouldn't hit your best friend when s/he offends you or does something with which you disagree, then you sure as hell shouldn't do it to your child!

(Of course, there are those who will say that they were hit and are fine...Whatever. What is "fine?" You function? Maybe you abuse yourself, though. Maybe you are 350 lbs. or drink every night or smoke pot every night or have depression. And there are women who were raped when they were younger and are now "fine." Doesn't make it right what was done to them, though...

[AngryAmish]

62. Bad idea

Use a belt instead.

[LostInAnomie]

64. It's best to find something they love and take it away.

I don't really think spanking is as bad as everyone makes it out to be though. Everyone says "It only teaches them to be violent!" or "It only teaches them might makes right!", but that's assuming that a young kid is going to absolutely miss the manifest intent of the spanking and only pick up the latent. Don't make it an everyday thing or especially painful, and I think it is fine.

The main thing though is to find something that actually works for you and your child. Once you do, apply it consistently, quickly, and assuredly.

[Dappleganger]

65. We have four kids.

Three are teens, one is 11. Two boys, two girls.

Never laid a hand on them, don't yell and scream at them either.
There are times when I would have loved to have throttled a teen, but of course better senses always rule (and who hasn't been there?). We do believe in consequences (as immediate as possible) for poor behavior choices, however. We have been known to make one son do jumping jacks in Walmart because he was misbehaving. Only needed to do that ONCE...the rest of them learned from his incident. I also believe in hard labor for whiners.

[LaraMN]

66. I spanked JackMN yesterday.

He ran straight toward the street, laughing while I screamed bloody effing murder at him to stop, because I wasn't close enough to catch him.
He does this frequently. Nothing has worked to prevent this type of behavior, and I can't always prevent him from slipping away really quickly.
I hate the idea of spanking a child, but I hate the idea of my dead child, more.

[Xithras]

67. That's about the only situation I spanked my kids for.

To associate pain with certain actions that could lead them to actual physical harm, and then only when they were too young to fully grasp consequences (children have the ability to associate pain response far earlier than the ability to reason punishment). Running toward or into a street is one situation. Climbing the front of the glass china cabinet was another.

Spanking isn't a punishment, but associating pain with potentially lethal activities has been a method of mammal parenting since our primate ancestors began teaching their young to avoid playing with lion cubs, and to avoid the thinner branches on the trees. Small children are actually wired to learn that way.

Keep in mind that it's completely ineffective if used as a general punishment, and essentially worthless once they reach five or so years (and often earlier than that). In fact, using spanking as a general punishment undermines its ability to deter behaviors that are genuinely dangerous.

[Roon]

71. My Mother used to chase us with a yardstick

but she never used it on us. My evil,physco step-father at the time took the belt to us at least once a month,and never when my Mother was around.