Two cat questions: Check whether my reasoning is... reasonable

[Bossy Monkey]

I wouldn't call it a silver lining, but after Alice threw me out in January, I was at least better able to monitor Amelia (the bossy monkey)'s eating and drinking. Before, there was always another cat, and even though they had their own litter boxes, they always wound up sharing, so there was no way of knowing whose, er, output was whose. So now I know, and it really looked like Amelia wasn't eating or drinking enough. I had seen on the internets that stainless steel bowls are supposed to be best, so I got her a pair in late March.

This did not turn out to be a good move. She immediately threw up (for the first time ever) and ate even less, and didn't use the litter box for a couple of days. I took her to see the Worst Vet On Earth, and brought one of the bowls. The Worst Vet On Earth took x-rays and became so anointed by pointing out to me a BB in Amelia's chest (on the x-ray) and saying, "SOMEbody must have gone somewhere she shouldn't have!" And I'm thinking, "somebody shot my cat, you psycho-dimwit" and she lost a patient forthwith. (Granted, it was before Amelia came to me, as we/I have kept her completely inside, but still.) The x-ray also showed a lot of poo in her digestive tract, so they gave her a laxative and let her loose on the litter box. They also didn't clean her in any way afterward. Charming bunch, huh? I'm glad to be rid of them. By the way, the Worst Vet On Earth ignored completely my suggestion that the problem was with the stainless steel bowl. As you'll see, this may be a second reason to call her the Worst Vet On Earth.

Three weeks later, Amelia developed a nosebleed and started sneezing blood everywhere. She managed to do this just after the vets closed on Friday evening with that classic sense of cat timing. However, by morning she had dried up, so I decided to wait for Monday. Monday I took her to the vet I had been bringing Alice's kitten to. (Worst Vet On Earth is somewhat closer to my new place, and Amelia is a poor traveler, so I had thought that closer is better; hey, we live and learn.) She suggested that the monkey probably had an infection due to also having the herpes virus, gave her a shot of antibiotics and gave me an antibiotic cream for her eye (which was extra winky) and sent us on our way.

She was a very alert and heady vet, so it could not have started yet. But practically immediately after that, Amelia started showing patches on her chin. Sometimes it looked like there were open sores. Shortly after, though, they would appear to be gone. It was driving me a bit crazy, to be frank. However, there was no question she had either blackheads or black scabs on her chin. Per the internets, this is feline acne, often caused by allergies to food bowls. Usually this is an allergy to plastic in plastic food bowls, but she's never used those. And I remembered the BB.

There is no information I could find on nickel allergy in cats. However, Wikipedia's entry on BBs notes that they are often nickel-plated. (Nickel allergy is what makes people react to stainless steel; my dad is one of those people.) Another site notes that nickel poisoning often results in nickel allergy. She's had a BB in her for at least 4 years. I think it's a reasonable inference that she has had nickel poisoning from this. I think it's a reasonable inference that she has nickel allergy from the nickel poisoning. I gave away her stainless steel bowls a week ago and switched her back to ceramic. The acne is already gone, completely healed. Anybody wanting to tell me what a dumb noodleloaf I am for taking months to figure this out will get no argument from me.

Anyway, I was back to square one. Evo says she (as a 12 lb cat) should be eating 3/4 cup of their dry food a day, and I was sure she wasn't eating a fraction of that. So I started measuring. And throwing out anything uneaten twice a day. I hate the very concept of throwing out food, but I also hate the idea of my kitty starving. By keeping an eye on how much she leaves, I have a reasonable idea how much is the most she's likely to eat in any given 12 hour period. I'm giving her less than 1/4 cup now, mornings and evenings, and she eats nearly all of it. Judging by litter box results, this is a lot more than she was eating when I just topped off the bowl without throwing out the old stuff. As she gets used to not getting sick from the stainless steel bowl, I'm hoping she starts eating more still. (Before anybody asks, I've tried giving her wet food. If I mixed it with water, she'd drink the water, but otherwise she was never interested.)

So the questions, many more than two in number, but there are only two overarching subjects. Does anybody know if vets will operate to remove BBs? Any experience? Do you think she's better with the BB in and just avoiding stainless steel, or would an operation be better, even with the attendant trauma? As to food, how do you feed your cat(s)? Is the monkey just extra finicky? Does anybody else clean out the bowl and measure out the cat's food twice a day, or do I just have to hang out the "Warning: Crazy Cat Person" sign over my door? Thanks in advance.:hug:

[Pharlo]

1. Re: The BB

That is something you need to discuss with a vet you trust. The cat's general health, placement of the BB, factors like that are something only your vet can answer. Re: The food, I'm thinking finicky - but only time will tell. As she begins to feel better, you'll have a better opportunity to evaluate her feed habits. But, no, you're not nuts to do what needs to be done to get your cat to eat. Been there, done that - cats, dogs, and horse.

[Bossy Monkey]

7. Thanks. I'm calling the vet tomorrow. n/t

[kiva]

2. Glad Amelia is doing better.

I don't have any advice about the BB...I thought my orange boy had done everything, but he's (so far) managed to avoid being shot.

As far as the food, I wouldn't throw out the leftover food each night. If you want to monitor her eating, you could check it and then just top off the bowl like you said that's sufficient. We have multiple cats and just leave dry food out 24/7, and top it off (cleaning the bowls regularly) and the food doesn't seem to get stale--at least, they still happily munch away. Good luck with the other question, and hope someone can give you an answer.

[Bossy Monkey]

5. She does, however, seem to be eating more

so I'll probably keep it up for a while. It doesn't seem to me to be any staler after a few hours, but then I don't think it smells all that appetizing straight out of the bag, either.:)

[Kali]

3. age of cat?

you are giving a 1/4 cup each feeding or total for the day?

1/2 cup seems a little low but not too bad - especially if a sedentary indoor or older cat. You might get a scale and weigh her regularly to monitor for loss.

Don't know about bb - is it in muscle, bone, or just under skin? Body tends to wall off things like that so surgery probably not needed. What did the "better" vet say?

[Bossy Monkey]

4. Almost a 1/4 cup each feeding, so almost 1/2 a cup each day

She is probably 5 or 6. Project Pet/ PetSmart said she was 2 at the time we got her, but on what evidence I don't know. The fact that she'd been shot sort of indicates that she had been a stray previously.

She goes nuts from time to time and tearasses around for no apparent reason, but is generally fairly sedentary. She has four windows to look out on the world from and very much enjoys all of them. Also Evo is supposed to be more digestible than most cat foods so I'd expect her poo to be comparatively minimal. It's just when it starts getting down near zero that I worry.

Better vet hasn't seen the x-ray. If they do such surgery, I'll try to get the x-ray from the other clinic. As I recall, it was in her neck; didn't appear to be near any bone.

[Kali]

8. she's probably doing ok

I'd probably up try three feedings to see what she did if I was around during the day. Maybe the whole "ceremony" of getting the food out of the bag and pouring it in the bowl helps stimulate appetite.

Yep kids and critters - you always need to keep an eye on poop.:rofl:

Get that xray if you can. If it is in muscle or deeper than skin it could be valuable to have as a baseline even if vet says it is ok to stay in place - then the old xray could show if there are changes in location or "reaction" by body.

[NV Whino]

6. I have a couple of comments.

1. The BB is probably copper.
2. If the BB is just under the skin or isolated in muscle mass and not moving, it's probably not a problem, but rely on your vet's advice about that. I had a cat that had a BB just under his skin for the entire time I had him (12 years).
3. If you have her sedated at any time in the future, you might ask the vet to remove BB at the same time. It sounds like a minor incision.
4. Cats can be finicky eaters. My mail cat eats everything that stands still long enough. The female turns up her nose at certain cans of food (which the male devours).

5. Thanks for the info on stainless steel. I had no idea cats could have an allergy to stainless. I use ceramic, my self.

[Bossy Monkey]

11. Back when I was a kid, all BBs seemed to be copper

(although I guess formally they were called Daisy Air Rifle pellets). Not that Wikipedia is authoritative, but they indicate that many are steel and or nickel plated these days. Anyway, I'm just drawing inferences owing to her apparently having a nickel allergy now, and how she might have acquired it. However, one could just as easily infer that she was allergic to something in the antibiotic shot, and the kitty acne just happened to clear up at the exact same time I switched her from stainless steel bowls. Fun stuff, huh?

[elana i am]

9. how old is she?

and how often is she peeing? drinking? if she's now doing either of these things more frequently than usual get her back to a vet pronto.

if she has constipation and appetite loss that would lead me to believe she is at the least dehydrated. did the vet say anything about this?

all-dry diets can be bad for a cat's kidneys and lead to permanent dehydration. cats are designed to be desert dwellers so they take in part of their moisture from the food they eat.

if she doesn't like regular canned cat food, you could try some fresh fish, unseasoned boiled chicken or some strained meat baby food a few times a week. the dry food is actually more nutritionally balanced than these things, but supplementing the dry food with wet on occasion will prevent her from getting binded up and dehydrated.

fyi, canned tuna and salmon is not a good idea. they contain an enzyme that depletes minerals in your cat's body.

[Bossy Monkey]

12. 5 or 6, as far as I know

I don't think she drinks enough or pees enough either, but she goes at least daily. Neither vet was concerned. She started drinking better when I started changing her water twice a day on the advice of DUers. I also gave her a second water bowl away from her food; she seems to prefer it and mostly drinks from that one. The good vet palpated her abdomen and said she didn't appear to be constipated, generally giving her a clean bill of health. (Personally, I think Amelia would rather look at birds and squirrels and the bad outside kitties than eat any day.)

[davsand]

10. Kitty zits! TillieYouBitch (RIP) had that problem one time.

Dumb me--I had NO idea cats ever had issues with acne until I spotted it on her. We swapped her bowl for a ceramic one that got washed frequently and did a round of "the pink stuff" (Whatever liquid antibiotic that is they give cats--it's the one they spit everywhere.) Her complexion cleared up straight away after that. I never heard anything about stainless cat bowls possibly being an issue--but it makes sense that it could be a problem for some cats.

The food and weight question, however, I think is really a valid one. I have long held the opinion that whatever diet your vet suggests (assuming your vet actually attended a vet school at some point in time) is probably fine for the individual cat at the time it is prescribed, but that the owners will second guess it anyway. I do that. I do that ALL the time. I think it is just part of being a cat person, if you want the truth.

I do track how much Chaucer eats (our current cat.) He is already a really big cat, and he is an absolute chow hound. I call him "Fattipuss Rex" sometimes, but the biggest issue we face with him right now is not letting him get terribly overweight. He is on a prescription food which is low carb (!) and I'm telling you that stuff is his favorite thing in the world. It also will pack on the weight if I let him eat all that he wants.

He gets two feedings a day and it is measured. I do not take it up until the next feeding becasue he is a on demand feeder, but I do put the leftover food in the measure and it gets tracked because I WANT to know if that cat stops or slows down eating.

Good luck with your kitty, and please know you are not strange at all, IMO.


Laura

[Bossy Monkey]

13. I didn't know about kitty acne either

But it should have been a tipoff to me that a) she'd never thrown up before, but did when I switched her to stainless steel bowls and b) she'd never had kitty acne before but did within a month of changing to stainless steel bowls. I used to be fairly intelligent. Ah well...

I'll probably keep measuring her food, but maybe I'll ease up on throwing out the leftovers. She did get huge once, but there was a lot going on in the household. The old cat Madeline died, there was a lot of crying going on among the people, I switched her food to Evo because I suspected Hill's Science Diet in contributing to Madeline's kidney failure, and we brought a new kitten in. Amelia almost doubled in size, to 20+ lbs. Might have been constipation, she might have just been extra-sedentary from missing Madeline (which would be odd because they never seemed to get along) or from not liking the idea of a new kitten. The kitten chased the extra weight off her pretty quick, though, as I recall.

[DeepBlueC]

14. cleaning the bowl and dishes is a very good thing to do

I don't measure food, but I don't mind wasting it either. I just want them to have whatever it is they feel they require and I think they are the best judges of that. They get fed twice a day, wet food, dry food always available (when it runs low I throw away the crumbles, wash the bowl, and resupply). They know how to come and ask me for a meal and when they do I open a can. :hi:

[Bossy Monkey]

15. Unfortunately, I don't speak kitty. Amelia comes and yells at me all the time

(hence the name bossy monkey) but mainly seems to be requesting additional scritches. Anyway, additional scritches stops the peroration. Maybe she's REALLY saying, "I can see the bottom of my bowl! This is unacceptable! Attica! Attica! Oooooooooh, scritches..." :hi: back

[Bossy Monkey]

16. UPDATE: we went to the vet

The big upshot is that she found Amelia to be very, very healthy. She's at 11 lbs and was at 10 at her last visit (rather than the 12 I thought I remembered). She (the vet) said that that's the heaviest she would want Amelia to be, so apparently, Amelia's light eating is agreeing with her, and Amelia's just way smarter than I thought. As to the BB, she didn't think that that would be a problem, but she is researching it. As somebody points out above, the cat's body tends to encapsulate them, so the probability is that if it was ever a problem, it isn't one now. So most likely, we'll be leaving it alone, and Amelia (who is incredibly pissed with me right now) won't have to go to the vet again for a long time. I have bought her toys, and will no doubt have to buy her more toys. However, I probably will discontinue special feeding measures, as it looks like she was doing it right all along. I guess Evo is just a very efficient cat food and she just doesn't poop all that much. I can live with this.:)