Academia-types--your advice/ideas about grad school MFA programs?

[Lyric]

My advisor says that it's time to start narrowing down choices now, so that I can start designing the last two years of undergrad to be as impressive as possible to the specific schools that I want. Here are my basic stats and goals:

Overall GPA: 3.9 (as of next semester)
In-Major GPA (English): 4.0
Awards: President's List (4 semesters)
Dean's List (4 semesters)
1st Place Winner--Jon Scott Nelson Freshman Writing Award (composition)
1st Place Winner--Jon Scott Nelson Freshman Creative Writing Award (poetry)
3rd Place Winner--James Paul Brawner Expository Writing Award (non-freshman composition)
1st Place Winner--Waitman Barbe Creative Writing Award (non-freshman, poetry)
1st Place Winner--"Hungry Poets" Poetry Contest 2009
Publications: "Works in Progress" English 101 textbook, 2008, "The Evolution of War Protest Signs"
"Works in Progress" English 101 textbook, 2008, "By What Right: The American Abortion Debate"
"Calliope" literary magazine, 2009 edition, "God at the Fruit Stand"
Organizations: The National Society for Collegiate Scholars
Sigma Tau Delta (International English Honor Society)
WVU Young Democrats
BiGLTM (Bisexual, Gay, Lesbian, Trans Mountaineers)

Plus whatever else I manage to earn/publish in the next two years. I'm hoping for a Phi Beta Kappa invite (a friend is in PBK, and he told me confidentially that they're already "looking" at the rising Juniors for next year, including me,) and I'm a favorite for the Virginia Butts Sturm Creative Writing Scholarship, which is the most prestigious English scholarship available to creative writers.

My goals: To obtain an MFA in Poetry, and hopefully to get a good grad-school "deal" involving teaching in exchange for waived tuition/a stipend

While I'm absolutely certain that I can win admission to at least one or two highly-prestigious MFA programs, I might not get the kind of deal I'm looking for. I'm really low-income, so cost matters. It would be an honor to go to Iowa, for example, but not if I have to pay for the tuition out-of-pocket. I need scholarships, tuition waivers, and stipends.

Does anyone here know of any other colleges that might be interested in a fantastic student and poet, and who might be willing to offer me a good package? I'm just trying to figure out where to send applications to. My advisors just keep rattling on about Ivy-League this, and Iowa-that, but prestige is NOT my biggest concern. I have to be able to AFFORD it. I'm not going 100k in debt just to say that I went to an Ivy League school.

I'm considering the University of Virginia pretty strongly, if only because (1) the MFA program there is superior, and (2) half of my family still lives down there, so I can conceivably move back down between undergrad and grad and get "in-state" tuition and admission preference. The same is true for New York colleges and universities--I used to live there, too, so it wouldn't be too difficult to just move back up in between undergrad and grad in order to qualify as an in-state student. However, such things won't matter so much if I can get a good package, so that's my primary goal.

So please--if any of you know of colleges with good MFA/Poetry programs that might be interested in a very good potential student, and might offer a really good package, feel free to share your ideas with me. I need to get busy on doing research this summer, so I know where to send out apps this Fall.

I'm also going to start submitting to literary mags this summer, so cross your fingers for me! Every publication gives me a better chance at a really GREAT grad school deal.

:grouphug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. PM LostinVA -- she worked at UVA for a long time

Charlottesville is great, even if you're pretty close to Midlo.

[Lyric]

5. I forgot about Midlo being pretty close to there.

You think she'll teach me how to play Bunco?

:rofl:

[Midlodemocrat]

13. You? DTM. Again.

[Dystopian]

2. I have no advice/idea....

Lyric...I just read your post and cried tears of happiness for you...your accomplishments.
I know enough about you to cry tears of joy~
That's all.
Best wishes...
Keep on!

:loveya:

peace~

[Lyric]

6. Ohmigosh you are so sweet!!

Thank you so much! Your kindness and light are immeasurable.

:loveya:

:hug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. Lostinava said to definitely PM or call -- you can get loads of financial aid there

They also have grad family housing close to Grounds.

[Lyric]

4. Okay, PM'ed her.

Thank you!

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

7. Is Greg Orr still at UVA?

I would apply to the programs you want to go to, that have the poets you want to study with, and worry about the money later.

I think with your grades and especially your talents as a poet, the scholarship money will be there.

:hug:

RL

p.s. wanna go to Sarah Lawrence with me? We can be off-campus roomies...

[RoyGBiv]

8. Was going to say something like this ...

I read the comments on the Facebook page, and while I agree in principle with the desire to avoid debt, what one needs to concentrate on at the grad level is studying with the right people in the right program, which is what I think the OP is about anyway.

If you focus on the money exclusively, you limit your options considerably. If the talent and networking skills are there, the money can be found.

A friend of mine, for example, *needed* to be at Rice to pursue what she wanted to pursue effectively. Sure, she could have done it anywhere, but the people at Rice along with the contacts it gave her made Rice *the* place she needed to be.

Rice is in no way cheap, and she was wanting to go there after having done undergrad work at a small regional school, and her MS at a not-much-bigger state school.

She got accepted, has a stipend, all tuition paid, and used student loans to help her raise three kids (no father support) in the process. She'll finish her dissertation this year.

Anyway ... one has to at least try for what you want/need without worrying about the money up front. Just the process of getting accepted to the "dream school" often opens many avenues to funding.

[Lyric]

9. To be fair, UVA is ranked in the top-five CW MFA programs in the nation.

That's where I'm leaning hard, right now. Rita Dove is a professor at UVA right now, which makes me even giddier at the thought of going there. Another "biggie" in terms of a poet-professor I'd like to study with would be Tony Hoagland, who's at the University of Houston right now--another top-five creative writing program. I dunno if I'd want to be in Texas, though. Iowa is the dream of pretty much every other undergrad I know, but they only accept a scant palmful of students per year, and I'd be competing against Ivy-Leaguers whose undergrad resumes look a lot more impressive than my West Virginia University degree, no matter HOW well I do here.

I think the talent part is there, although I still have a lot of improvement and polishing to do. Networking skills, though--not so much. I've never been very good at that sort of thing. With today's job market being as scary as it is, I'm just afraid of graduating 200k in debt while making 15k (if that) as an adjunct professor, you know? I know that money isn't "everything," but it's hard--damned hard--for someone from a trailer park, welfare background to look at that kind of debt without an enormous amount of fear. Scholarships would be fantastic, but I'm not very skilled at finding them; look at it this way: I'm a sophomore with an almost perfect GPA and a multiple-award winner, and a member of several target groups (female, GLBT, poor, first-gen college student) but I'm still not getting a dime of scholarship money right now. If a student like me can't even get scholarship money from WVU, I don't know how I'll manage it elsewhere.

Sometimes I think I ought to transfer undergrads. Something just doesn't seem "right" about the fact that I'm doing so fantastically here, and still haven't been offered a scholarship.

[RoyGBiv]

12. Scholarships ...

Scholarships for undergrad work are an entirely different animal than for grad work. Entirely.

Now, I don't mean to make it sound like they just turn on the money fountain and let it go, but you can *find* the money. You just have to look. Networking is part of it, and you will need to develop that. It's a part of the process anyway. Trying to get through grad school in a field like you're following without contacts would be a nightmare.

And as far as your lack of networking skills, pardon the bluntness, but I'm going to call bullshit on that right here and now. Look at the "network" you have on DU. Look at your Facebook page. Seriously. Hell, I'm in your network, and I didn't even know your last name until a couple weeks ago when we made a Mafia Wars trade. You, as a sophomore, have the beginnings of a network the likes of which many seniors would be jealous. Don't sell yourself so short. You've got mad skills in networking. Networking isn't cocktail parties and fancy dinners. It's getting to know people and, importantly, letting them get to know you, the professional you, that is. We're also not talking about deep, dark family secrets.

OnEdit: Let me put it another way regarding networking. You're doing it *right now* by asking for help and advice. You know how many people don't ask for help? Most of them. That's why they fail or at least struggle in ways they don't need to struggle. And I know you'll follow up on the advice given previously about contacting LostinVA. Voila', network.

The awards and recognitions -- that's all a part of it. Keep piling them up. Enter every contest you can find to enter, even if it's not prestigious or doesn't particularly interest you with the theme. Show your ability to work under less-than-ideal conditions by putting out work that's not in your favorite area. Also, use the fact you are a "first generation" college student. Turn your perceived negatives around. They *will* work for you if you let them and look for the right ways to make them work.

My friend I mentioned -- same deal. No one in her family had gone to college. She was divorced with three kids. She did in fact live in a trailer park. Hell, she lived in a hotel for six months ... with three kids. And she had people at her undergrad school who recognized her talent and began helping her, the beginnings of her own network. I'll blow my own horn a bit and say I pointed her in the direction of what she actually wanted to study. That is, I knew her personally, and I knew what she was interested in doing, but she didn't understand clearly how her interests meshed with various disciplines. Finding the right focus is also very important, which is what it sounds like your advisers are pushing you to do now, which is a good thing.

All that said, I didn't mean to imply earlier you need to go to any particular place. If UVA has the people and program you want, that's where you should go. It's about what you want and need to further your own career.

Do not focus on the negatives. I know that's easier said than done, but you've got an enormous number of positives and can turn many of those negatives into positives with the right kind of push.

[mike_c]

10. no specific advice because you're so far out of my field...

...but as someone who reviews undergrad transcripts and grad school applications every year, it's clear that your undergrad credentials are impressive. I would expect grad programs to compete for you. At least, that's what I would expect for a prospective student with equivalent credentials in biological sciences.

As a side note, I was admitted to UVA 20 years ago but at that time Virginia did not waive tuition for grad students, so I got my doctorate elsewhere. You might want to ask whether that's still the policy. If you were a science student, I'd recommend that you show your backside to any school that asks you to pay tuition unless they augment your stipend accordingly-- and the best advice is to simply not consider schools that don't waive tuition. Sorry, I don't know whether that's customary in the humanities.

Also, if you're considering the University of Georgia, I can give a hearty recommendation for grad student life in Athens and for UGA grad programs in general, but I don't know much about their grad writing programs, other than the journalism school, which I understand is world class.

Good luck to you! :hi:

[Lyric]

11. I thought about science, seriously.

I love biology (particularly genetics and molecular biology) and I'm good at it, too; my Bio 101 professor tried to coax me over to be her teaching assistant for the upcoming semester, because I'd organized and taught a huge biology study group that improved test scores by 20% during my time under her. In the end, I chose poetry because I love it so much, and also because I'm terrified of the Calculus classes required for a Bio degree. Science loves me, but math hates me passionately. ;)

I do appreciate your advice, though! You gave me some stuff to think about. I hadn't really considered that grad schools might compete for me. That might not be true for the Ivy League types, but I'd bet it's true for the others. Plus it's just an enormous relief to hear from someone who reviews applications professionally that mine is one that looks good--even if it IS in a different field.

[Dora]

14. UT Austin's Michener Center for Writers is fully and richly funded.

Students at UT Austin's MCW have all tuition and fees paid, plus a $25,000 stipend. http://www.utexas.edu/academic/mcw/index.html

I had the exact sames concerns as you did when I was considering graduate schools. It's really a tossup - whether to study with the famous programs and go broke or go crazy trying to write and manage teaching responsibilities, or study for free with lesser knowns but with ample time to pursue your craft.

You must sit down and reflect on what you expect out of graduate school, and what you want to do when you get out. If you want teaching to be an option for you after graduating, I strongly suggest you go to a program that will allow you to teach. MCW does not allow for teaching opportunities.

I was accepted at Sarah Lawrence and UT Austin. Sarah Lawrence would have given me fantastic exposure to other published poets, but offered no financial support except for loans - not even teaching assistantships. I spoke with the director about my difficulty in choosing between their reputation and UT Austin's money, and he advised me to go for the money. And I did.

I loved my experiences at UT Austin. The workshops were fantastic. The faculty was strong in some areas, but at the time of my enrollment the poetry faculty in particular were unrecognized minor poets. However, the three years of study without any outside work allowed my voice to develop in ways I never imagined. (The poetry faculty has changed since I've graduated, and the program does bring in phenomenal visiting writers that stay for 1-2 semesters to work with students.)

Then I graduated. I had no poets of influence to write letters of support for me or open inroads to publication. I had no teaching experience. But I don't complain because there's NO GUARANTEE of a career after graduating even with a degree from a "famous" program. The number of MFAs out there is staggering.

My advice: GO FOR THE MONEY FIRST. HONE YOUR CRAFT. GET AS MUCH WRITING DONE AS YOU CAN WHILE IN SCHOOL. WORK ON NOVELS AND SCREENPLAYS. ASK FOR HELP FINDING AN AGENT FOR YOUR WORK. LEARN ABOUT COPYEDITING, PROOFREADING, AND INDEXING, AND YOU MIGHT HAVE A POST-GRAD SOURCE OF INCOME THAT ALLOWS YOU TO WRITE. Honey, let me tell you true, poetry won't put dinner on your table.

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. MFA in poetry with your grades? NYU, Harvard, Columbia, Northwestern, Iowa

Probably some others, but come on - with your grades and honors, why piss around anywhere but the best?

Especially as a poet, you should be out living, not getting a Master's degree while living with family.



With your grades, you will most likely get quite excellent financial packages.