Divorce papers arrive tomorrow.

[crim son]

They're preliminary: the STBE says he thinks everything is according to state law, but he will await my comments. He also said, "It's just a piece of paper. We don't know what will happen down the line." I'm not so much in shock as I am in confusion.

You "happily" married people: what kind of compromises/sacrifices would you not make? I don't think the man would ever hit either my kids or me again and if it helps, I'm not wrong about this. Does it matter that I view him as the dearest brother rather than a lover?

I've asked these questions before but now I'm asking them close to midnight because I hope nobody will answer. :P

My daughter says he is just trying to ease the whole situation so I don't get sad and crazy. She may be right, but when he hugs me I feel sentiment behind it. Loneliness? Love? Does it even matter?

Rhetorical questions, probably.

[Danger Mouse]

1. ok

is it good?

[crim son]

5. That's what I'm trying to decide.

What's happening is going to happen, but he keeps making reference to our future. We'll be the best of friends... it isn't really over... that sort of stuff. And I think, should I wait to see if he wants me? Because during our separation it has become obvious that outside of the violence, he was a very good husband if one wants a brother as a husband. And he's had more than three years of counseling - he is different.

I don't know. That's what I hate: not knowing, DM. And I write "DM" because I'm having trouble visualizing you as Danger Mouse. It'll take time.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. I just read everything you posted here,

and I can see that you're having cold feet. Listen, that's normal. Because a divorce is - in its way - a final thing. What your lawyer said to you about the future is true. People are funny.

But, you wrote something that leapt out at me. You wrote in this post, "... should I wait to see if he wants me?"

That is the exact wrong perspective. You're still the one who got hit. Your voice is that of a victim. That you would even consider "wait(ing) to see if (anyone) wants you" suggests to me that you've got some work to do, because, and this is really important, what matters is what you want.

Get that?

Once again:

What matters is what you want.

The nervousness and indecision you're experiencing is normal. Everyone goes through it because it seems like such a big step. Well, I have news for you - it's not. It's just the conclusion of a legal contract. That's all. It's not a sign of failure, just as marriage is no sign of success. It's simply a symbol of something that ended.

It's good that your spouse is behaving better. Of course, from what I've been able to glean, you've not lived together for a long, long time. It's very easy to be nice when someone is at a distance and day-to-day life doesn't wear people down. Living together is sometimes an ordeal. Your husband hasn't had to do that, so his behavior seems to have changed.

I learned one thing as a lawyer for more than thirty years - and as someone who's gone through a divorce - and that is that people do not change. Their behavior may come under better control, but their essential essence, who they are, what they are - none of that ever changes.

Sounds to me like you gave the marriage your best. Staying with a man after he's hit you is a scary proposition, but, clearly, you wanted to believe. And, you found out that it wasn't going to be a marriage that should last.

There's a big world out there and you seem like a very nice person. There are lots of people out there and you deserve someone without the history that you have with your husband.

What your lawyer was saying to you, by the way, was that if you and your soon-to-be-ex-husband found out that you really wanted to build a life together as husband and wife, you can very easily get married again.

See?

No big deal, except it is for you. Steel yourself, think clearly, and consider what you want. What YOU want. Your life is far too valuable and time is so desperately short as we go around the sun for yet another trip, you should be the one who decides what she wants. And then you should have it.

Good luck.

[crim son]

19. Thank you, Tangerine LaBamba.

I appreciate what you're saying. Two things: it's the husband and not the lawyer who is talking about the future. And second, my husband stopped hitting me ten months into the marriage when we went to counseling. After that he occasionally directed his rage at the children. Since I told him to go to counseling or be prosecuted, he hasn't hit or made any violent gesture toward anybody. For over three years. What I'm wondering is, essentially, what is marriage?

But you're right. I have cold feet. I may be nice but I'm an odd person and it takes another weirdo to tolerate me. I think I may end up alone and it's scary.

Thank you.

[LiberalEsto]

27. You also need to protect your kids from violence

They have the right to grow up without being physically abused any more than they have been already.

That said, I went through a divorce many years ago. Even though we had no kids and had been married only 6 years, and had mutually agreed to end the marriage, I still felt awful. And I worried that nobody would want me.

Well surprise, as soon as word got around that I was unattached, a number of guys I knew as coworkers or casual acquaintances started asking me out. It wasn't very long before I found my current husband, another oddball like me. We've been married for almost 27 years. Our motto is: "Normal is boring."

[BarenakedLady]

26. I know you wrote this to Crim son but

Thank you.

:hug:

[MajorChode]

2. You don't think he would ever hit you.....again?

I'm not sure what you meant by that, but domestic violence is something that can't be tolerated, especially if kids are involved. So there is no compromise/sacrifice to be made there. Most other things you might be able to work out.

[crim son]

7. Right.

And I mean what I say, that he has changed in that regard. The first series of counseling sessions he stopped hitting me... that was nearly two decades ago. Between now and then he was psychologically abusive to the family and occasionally physically abusive to his kids, but he's been to over three solid years of counseling and he has made an effort to change with all his heart, and he has changed. The damage done to our "romance" was pretty fatal however. What I'm wondering is, does anybody ever get it back? And is there any reason to try? I'm going to be "okay" either way, but my core values and other annoying thoughts are niggling at me.

It's not as if I have a choice anyway. It's complicated. Everything is complicated, isn't it? I have no idea why I'm posting this on DU, unless it's for old times' sake when I posted every thought that crossed my mind. :hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. My dear crim son...

It may be midnight back east where you are, but it's just past 9 PM here, and we're awake!

I would make sacrifices to keep my husband, and I have, because we have a strong love and commitment to each other.

We respect each other, too...

He would never hit me...Once he put his hand through the drywall instead of hitting me...

You can be married to someone you see as your dearest brother, as long as there's respect between you.

:hug:

[crim son]

8. But am I giving up something else, Peg?

Is there some other path I'm meant to travel? I think you may know what I'm feeling.

V. confusing.

[crimsonblue]

4. well name twin...

things such as love and marriage cannot be fully determined rationally. Sometimes you need to follow the little voice thingy in the very back of your brain. I suspect you already know what it is saying to you. I suggest this: meditate, pray, or whatnot and try and bring it to the front. Think on it (the tiny little voice). Let is sit for a week and tell yourself that you will wake up on day 8 and know the answer. And it will then come to you. Good luck! :hug:

[crim son]

9. I will do what you suggest, although eight days is too short a time

for me to know anything. I've dealt with the realization that our marriag sucked. Then I dealt with physical separation. Then he bought a home in a different town but still talked about "us." Then I found a man with so many dear qualities he lacks, while lacking so many of the qualities I hold dear: rationality, emotional fortitude, amazing self-confidence and mostly, acceptance of me for who I am. My husband has yet to have gone through a relationship and I have the oddest but strongest feeling that he wants to try that, and then see where we are. My thought is, fair enough because I've done it, and because I know what we had/could have.

Rambling. I apologize, name twin! You are right: I need to think about it. I've never before been at this stage of thinking - it's all new. :hug:

[lizziegrace]

6. probably more like familiarity

I feel the same for my ex. But we still joke around like old buddies. I'll never be able to trust him and have no desire to be married to him again either.

I'm here if you need to talk.

:hug:

[crim son]

10. I need to talk!

Sometimes I'm afraid to hear rational answers.

My husband never cheated on me and still calls me the love of his life. He was violent and angry and never seemed to view it as a problem until I told him it was over.

He's changed a lot. I see it and the kids see it. My daughter told me recently that she'd been reading her diaries and realized for the first time how inexcusable some of his behaviors were before we separated. She "hated" him. Yet she is looking forward to moving in with him in the fall because he lives close to her college and they now get along very well.

I keep trying to decide if it matters. One life, or twenty. Does it matter? Is anybody keeping score? because I lost the scoresheet and have no idea where I stand.

Loveya, lizziegrace. :loveya: :hug: :pals:

[lizziegrace]

12. Check your PM

:hug:

[crim son]

14. I've written you back.

I'm freaking phone phobic. Sometimes it's a disaster. :hug:

[lizziegrace]

20. Tag!!

you're it. ;)

Check your pm

[Dystopian]

11. Something similar...

although David and I weren't married, we lived together for eight years. He was a good man. His issues became my issues, and so we parted. We are still best friends, can give a hug, and a kiss on the cheek, and he's like a brother to me. I just thought I'd share...

Not as many years, no children, etc....but he was the love of my life.
Several months ago we sat together and I cried, telling him I'll never find love like ours again. I don't think I ever will.....

He also said that perhaps someday we'd become closer...time would tell.
I don't even know why he said that....clearly, our love is a beautiful friendship....
There is no jealousy if the other has a relationship (I did as soon as he was out the door)
Sometimes it's just nice to have a friend.


Whatever happens, you deserve the best...:hug:

peace~

[crim son]

16. Dystopian, your words are very helpful,

very close to my heart. I think our situations are the same, except there are children involved, and one "likes" the divorce while the others don't understand it, naturally. I think my religion and my fear of loneliness are having an effect, plus I hate the fact that the STBE apparently still has hopes. I know I could be with him again but only on certain levels. But does it matter?

I will think about what you wrote and thank you. -Lisa

[liberaltrucker]

13. Been there c s

Hurts like hell, although in my case it was by mutual agreement.
Funny thing is, the judge signed the final decree on Feb 14, 1995.
Valentines Day. In retrospect, a good omen. I'm very happily married
to MrsLT till my ashes are scattered. Prayers and vibes your way.
Take care. :hug:

On edit: You don't think he'll hit you or the kids again?
Did he do it once? If so, get the hell outta there. He'll
do it again...and again........just my $.02

[crim son]

18. He honestly doesn't follow the stereotype.

I'm no fool (though I've been taken for one!) and I know he will not ever use physical violence again. As for generalized anger, he still struggles with it and always will, but displays an awareness of the affliction like he never did before.

What I hope is that he remarries and is as happy as you are. It's weird but I feel like I'd rather see him happy with somebody and me be on my own than the other way around.

You take care, too. :hug:

[liberaltrucker]

24. You're a better judge than I as to his personality

My own opinion is that a man never, EVER strikes a woman. No matter the conflict.
You wish for HIS happiness? What about you own? I know love can be a bit strange
at times, but, holy freaking jebus, have you not once thought of yourself?
It's not being selfish to consider you own priorities, ya know. If it's time to
let go, then let go. Yours and your daughter's future is at stake. From your story
it appears you have no choice. I wish nothing but the best for y'all. PM if you want.
I'll be here.

[mike_c]

15. my ex and I have been best friends for twenty years....

On and off at times, as circumstances changed. At present we spend time together a couple of times a week. We're divorced and have a grown daughter-- we were married for about ten years, divorced in the early nineties. She's one of the finest people I know. Sometimes I think we made a mistake, getting divorced-- then we spend a bit longer together and I remember why we did it, LOL. All in all, the world is a better place because she's in it. That's a gift-- knowing someone you can love, but not have to be IN LOVE with, if you know what I mean. I'm pretty much done with that.

[crim son]

21. That's it exactly, mike_c.

And I know for a fact it's better to love him and not live with him, than it is to love him, not be in love with him, and live with him. I'm genuinelyl concerned about being alone, though. It's not that I'm a dreadful prospect, but I'm odd and it's the rare man/woman who can tolerate me.

Is it worth being alone? He was totally taken aback when I said I was leaving i.e. he is happy even with less. Yet I think, how much happier would he be with more? the more being not me, I mean.

I'm glad you and your ex still have a love. It's remarkable; I'm often told this by close friends who understand how it's been with me and the husband. You've done something right. I want to do the same! -Lisa

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. hmmmmm ---

no words of wisdom, just wanted to give you a hug ---> :hug: and say Hello ---> :hi:

[malta blue]

23. Hey crimmy

I understand your fears of being alone. When Little MBs dad and I split, it was totally my fault and I regret it. I was immature and could not handle parenthood.

Then I got remarried to the current STBE dolt. I saw him several days ago and he wanted to engage in a conversation about how sorry he is, etc. Thing is, because I have a kid, I feel I only had one shot at a do-over, and he fucked it up for me. I don't want to have a revolving door of stepfathers for my daughter, and so I feel doomed to being alone until she is of age, and I despise him for what he has done. I have met someone I enjoy spending time with, but now what? I can't have a livein boyfriend, I can't get married, nada. :(

[blondeatlast]

25. Crim, I can't offer you much in the way of advice, but as someone looking at a major major marriage

earthquake herself, I have a very strong sense of what you are going through.

We both thought we were very happy and content until another entered the picture for him 2 months agao. He still says he loves me and doesn't want to lose me but he is overseas on biz and with her now.

Many think I'm a fool, but I'm going to wait and see; I still think things will work out for us.

If you need a sympathetic ear, drop me a line--and please take care of yourself, something I've tended to neglect in my shock and grief and am just starting to do.

[rurallib]

28. I am no expert or anything and offer no advice but one concern

I would have is that kids do emulate role models and their biggest role models are their parents. I just hope that your children in no way believe that abuse, physically or mentally, is ever acceptable.
My best vibes to you, crim son. Divorce is one of the worst things that can happen to anyone and the family.

[Aristus]

29. Just a head's up, crimmy. Five minutes after you sign them, there will be a knock at your door.

It will be TK421.

Just wanted you to know that. :P

I know this is a tough time for you, sweetie. But it looks like things are getting better. And we're all here for you. (And when the knock comes, and he says it's TK421, have him authenticate somehow. :+ )

:grouphug: