Ever feel like you're too far to the left to be a Democrat?

[Critters2]

Sometimes I feel like a freakin' Wobbly in comparison! Breaks my heart, cuz where else can I go? The Wobblies? :shrug:

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. I believe that the entire system needs to be reduced to us

leading ourselves, with honor and dignity.

Ahem..

Until then, I'll vote Democratic...

[LeftyMom]

2. Daily.

Probably because I think most self-identified liberals are nearly indistinguishable from typical right wing douchenozzles, only more pretentious.

Which is why I'm a leftist, not a liberal.

[supernova]

3. I'd probably be a Green

if we had such a viable party here.

I'm definitely more liberal than the Dems on most issues. I

[bigwillq]

4. Yes

:hug:

[FarLeftRage]

5. I am

too far left, in fact, I am a Socialst.

[NightWatcher]

6. if broken down to the purest form of the word, I'm an anarchist

"Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government.” Emma Goldman

[arcadian]

43. Anarchy is actually on the far right of the political spectrum.

Beyond Libertarianism.

[Deja Q]

45. Yours is the definition I am compelled to agree with.

Anarchy is the destruction of order.

[ghostsofgiants]

55. No, it is the destruction of heirarchy.

No rulers, not no rules. Read a book or two.

[otherlander]

58. But why does it reject morality?

Anarchists say that they have ethics, not morals. Aren't morals the basis of ethics? Not the Christian Right kind of morals, but the kind of morality that says, "people have the right to be free and the obligation to take care of each other"? Simone Weil said these rights and obligations came from God, but I don't believe in God, so to me it seems that these ideas are just my morals. No? Ah, I'm no good at understanding theoretical stuff. I should probably stick to cooking stuff with Food Not Bombs.

[ghostsofgiants]

61. Sounds like more or less semantics.

In this context morals are differentiated from ethics in that morals are derived from God, representing a heirarchical structure. Ethics in that case would be derived from man, and thus not necessarily subject to that inherent heirarchy.

[ghostsofgiants]

54. There are various strands. Your defnition is much less in line with historical uses of the term.

In your use, the free market reigns supreme with no government at all. Most anarchists recognize that the hierarchy created by capitalism is just as undesirable as that created by the state and as such oppose that just as much, putting it much in line with communist goals of a classless society.

[LeftyMom]

66. No, not at all.

It's anti-capitalist.

[Zavulon]

7. Not even close.

I'm only far left on social and religious issues, not really so much with fiscal ones, and I'm pro-gun.

[Chan790]

10. I'm pro-gun too.

I think we're all going to need them someday.

[Zavulon]

12. I'm glad there are a few of us here.

Especially since I'm convinced you're right.

[PVnRT]

27. Oddly, the Wobblies were quite pro-gun as well

And the early socialists and communists. The idea that the left should stand for gun control is a relatively recent thing.

[benEzra]

71. Yup.

The Conservative Roots of U.S. Gun Control

[otherlander]

59. Hey, I'm with you, man.

Nothing wrong with being a well-armed leftist. :D

[Zavulon]

67. Nice to see I'm not the only one.

This very well-armed leftist will never give up his guns knowing what is possible in this country. There are people who think that gun bans make criminals think twice, but for fuck's sake I own guns legally and will never turn my own in. If I were a criminal, the last thing I'd ever do is say to myself "golly, I was going to use this gun for criminal purposes, but now that there's a new law to break, a- HYUK..."

[hippywife]

8. Oh, yeah.

Especially compared to the Dems out here in the middle of the country. I'm sure you can relate. :hi:

[Pierre.Suave]

11. Please explain

how you are more left than me, a dem in the middle of the country. Please include specific examples and reasons for this belief and why where I live has anything to do with it.

I am dying to hear this.


:eyes:

[Heidi]

37. She didn't say she was more left than you.

She lives in the state where I grew up: essentially fundamentalist and charismatic Christians, some of whom are Dems, but very conservative Dems, and far south of you. I assume she means she's more left than most of the Dems around her, which I don't doubt for a moment.

[Pierre.Suave]

40. lol

yes she did

[Heidi]

42. You are not the center of the universe. "Out here in the middle of the country"

is a colloquialism local to that poster's region. I suspect it was not a literal geographic reference, though where she lives is much closer to the literal geographic middle of the US (Lebanon, Kansas) than Michigan is. How you found yourself personally insulted by her post is a curiosity, though.

[Pierre.Suave]

51. I am not personally insulted

I simply asked her to explain her ridiculous assertion.

Nor am I in Michigan...

[Jamastiene]

68. Yeah, we TOTALLY get it and agree.

I'm literally surrounded by conservatives here.

[Chan790]

9. Oh yes...

my handle on most sites I frequent is LeftistLad...just in case people didn't know in the first 30 seconds exactly where I stood.

Last week, it was funny. It seemed that all my mail while my entire tremendously-conservative family was home for the holidays was from the ACLU, Amnesty, EFF, HSUS, Americans for the Separation of Church and State, Human Rights Campaign, and on and on. Even my blue-dog brother felt the need to comment on my "extremism". I'm the reason that Republicans keep winning apparently. Me! I feel so honored to be that important...but I suspect he's wrong.

[KamaAina]

13. I am a firm believer in the two-party system

as long as the two parties are the Democratic and Green parties, with the repukes banned the way the Nazi party is in Germany.

In such an ideal society, I'd be your basic middle-of-the-road independent swing voter. :-)

edit: spelling

[leftyclimber]

14. I regularly feel like I'm too far left to be an American.

It frustrates me.

That's why I hang out here, with the normal people. :crazy:

[harmonicon]

15. you can be a Wobbly and a Democrat.

I feel ya. It seems like the Democratic party has become one massive catch-all for anything political that isn't the extreme right wing, which means that I disagree with what the majority of the party does/thinks/feels/etc., because I am a leftist, to put things mildly. I love the IWW. I read and admire Marx, Debord, etc. I am not however a communist, so I have no interest in joining any kind of communist party, or working towards that end. So.... I'm here. I figure I'm more likely to find what I'm after within this large group that I know includes others like me than I am to find just what I want out of an incredibly small group.

[Generic Brad]

16. I'm left of Ghandi

That leaves little room to maneuver politically.

[Odin2005]

18. The Political Compass put's me at the exact same spot as Nelson Mandela.

[Critters2]

20. It puts me to the left of the Dalai Lama.

Don't know quite what to make of that.

[Odin2005]

17. I feel both too far left AND too far right, if that makes any sense.

On one hand I'm a Socialst (in the Anglo-American non-Marxist tradition of folks like Sinclair Lewis). On the other hand, I'm conservative by temperment, hate the dogmatism of many on the left, get called a "neocon" and "imperialism apologist" because I'm a Wilsonian Interventionist, have no problem with GMOs, and hate the misanthropy and ludditism of many "green" types. who would seem to want a catastrophic disaster wiping out civilization rather then use technology to fix the problem.

Sometimes I feel that I would have felt intellectually more at home among the techno-utopians and leftist intellectuals of the Depression Era. I just don't "get" the leftism of the Boomers.

[femmocrat]

19. Actually, I think the party is too far to the right to include me.

I'm so NOT a centrist. But, I'm still a life-long democrat.

[Danger Mouse]

21. I say no only because people on the far left annoy me every bit as much as people on the far right

which makes me feel strange.

[Common Sense Party]

64. Ditto.

nt

[Aristus]

22. I'm just a smidge to the right of full-blown, unadulterated socialism.

The Dems will never go that far left. But they're better than the repukes...

[Critters2]

24. I used to be a member of the Socialist Party USA. Good times. nt

[deutsey]

23. Yes.

Times like these really do call for direct-action, grassroots organizing and activism like the Wobblies did. The New Deal happened largely because there had been large, organized socialist and labor movements struggling for years before FDR was elected. I just don't see that happening again any time soon.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. The Democratic leadership sure is to the right of me

:-(

But I'm not alone. Judging from the readers' comments in the New York Times, most of the people who read the New York Times are way to the left of the Democratic party leadership.

[arcadian]

44. 'Democratic leadership' = oxymoron

n/t

[last_texas_dem]

26. Yes

ON EDIT: Decided to answer from a different angle...

I feel like the national Democratic Party is at least pretty close to where I am on social issues, but has moved much too far to the right on economic issues. Their priorities seem to have become totally skewed. I also don't understand why they seem to behave like they're on the defensive even when they're the majority party- but I guess that's more about strategy than ideology. I do think it's essential for the Democrats to be a "big tent" party (minus major reforms, America has a two party system, and I'm obviously far more at home with the Democrats than the Repugs), but I think the D's more often suffer from the problem of trying so much to appeal to the unaffiliated that they end up muddling what the party really stands for.

[Blue_Tires]

46. +1

[PVnRT]

28. Increasingly, yes

In general, the party leadership has always been to my right, and I've come to expect that. It's far sadder to see the rightward lurch of so many on DU.

EDIT: reworded for clarity

[Jamastiene]

69. I feel the same way about that rightward lurch by many here,

although I see it as more of a lunge, as if some couldn't wait for the chance to swing rightward. It's sad.

[hobbit709]

29. SDS and YIPpie is where I started.

[RandomThoughts]

30. Its a funny thing when you look at it

Most people are actually left of themselves.

No kidding, they really are.

The gap between what they believe, and what they think actually happens(and how they vote), is this big schism. It is created and manipulated by information control, distraction, and just keeping people to busy with other things to actually stop and think.

In a very sad way, it is pretty funny.

[TZ]

31. Nope.

Oddly IRL, I have a relative who calls me a "knee jerk liberal" but yet, I come off as slightly conservative here.
I think I am more a pragmatist than anything. I have a relative who coined the term "raging moderate" so I am used to being left of many politicians. Unlike many here, I don't think moderates or "blue dogs" are teh evil (especially since the same relative is good friends with Stephanie Hirseth Blue Dog from SD), I don't feel angry that there are members of the party who think differently than me. I do understand that as a minority view, I'm never gonna get everything I want and I don't think thats necessarily a bad thing. I don't think I have all the answers. I do think that all parts of the party can make valuable contributions.
I do tend to dislike overly closed mined wing nuts of which both the left and the right have in plenty.

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. Heh, my DU handle has a similar origin...

I grew up in a small rural Midwestern town, where being a Democrat and being opposed to Bush and the Iraq War (I graduated high school right after we "liberated" Baghdad) made me some kind of raging leftist radical in the eyes of most people I knew. Hence my handle, though I'm far from the most wild-eyed person here.

[TZ]

34. Its really funny how different DU is from the real world

I've had ALL the labels given to me..elitist, knee-jerk, bleeding heart, etc..and yet here I'm considered conservative. Its very amusing to me..:)

Oh and its not like I live in a red area either..I live in one of the bluest county in one of the bluest states..which makes it all the more ironic!

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. Depends

Fiscally/economically, yes. I'm in favor of a European-style socialist/regulated capitalist economy. Foreign policy wise, it depends - I'm far more opposed to the military/industrial/corporatist complex than the Democratic party, and am opposed to imperialist adventuring around the globe, but I'm not a hippie pacifist, either.

But then, on certain social issues, I'm more libertarian - eg, guns, affirmative action, political correctness in general.

I dunno, I don't like labeling myself, really, because I don't fit any standard conventional label. I do proudly call myself a liberal, though, and by and large that's accurate.

[undeterred]

35. The Democratic party needs to be pulled to the left

and we are the ones to do it.

[raccoon]

36. Yes. nt

[DerekG]

38. I'm Left, so I left.

Wasn't exactly the most traumatic moment of my life. Somewhere in the mid Bush years, I looked at the Democratic Party, realized it was nothing more than the pro-choice wing of the War Party, and vamoosed.

Now I vote third-party, and hope to stumble into a populist movement.

[HughBeaumont]

39. All the time, especially on economic issues.

Cannot STAND Laissez-fail, pro-free-trade Dems in the least. A mixed economy works best - Keynesian with Democratic socialism thrown in. I'm for strong safety nets, universal health care and living minimum/reasonable maximum wages. Embracing these characteristics will upgrade us as far as the UN Human Rights Declaration is concerned and would also sever the relationship between employment and survival.

Supporting the current Freidmanite system that's been a consummate failure for everyone except the extremely wealthy does not envelop democratic principles and is nonsensical.

[mvd]

52. Agree with you that a capitalistic system should be mixed with socialism

I'm of the mantra, "yes, you can earn as much as you can while paying fair taxes, but there need to be standards for living conditions and necessities should be provided."

I think the label Democrat is open to all, including me, so I'm not ashamed to be one. I'm just to the left of most in Congress.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

41. Nah, sometimes I find myself having to defend myself as being a liberal Democrat.

Because some people have a narrow interpretation of what it means to be "liberal" and I don't always fit into it.

Sometimes I get the feeling that if you're not a Dawkins-citing atheist, "Screw the South" type or on the board of trustees at NARAL, some people will inevitably think you're not liberal enough.

[truedelphi]

47. My dear mycritters2, for a mere $ 1295

you too can become a member of WobbliesRus dot com.

And if the experience is not what you thought it would be, my dear mycritters2, you'll probably think California Peggy was behind it, won't you??

(Sorry there isn't any place for us real lefties to go...)

[Orsino]

48. Very much so.

The party platform sounds pretty good, but the party's execution and interpretation leave much to be desired.

[dembotoz]

49. yes and i fear obama will make me feel even more so.

yes i support him
blah
blah
blah

but i fear his leftness will be much less than i would have prefered....

[tigereye]

72. there was a great article in yesterday's NYT about the Black Congressional

Caucus, and how the majority of it's membership are considerably to the left of PE Obama. That's why I found it hilarious when folks on DU derided Hillary as well to the right of Obama.


I'm somewhat left of center, and realized at one point that I've been arguing with more leftist friends and house-mates since the 80s, despite despising Reagan, conservatives, and the current admin. I tend to have more respect for institutions as a whole, have tolerance for a whole range of viewpoints, and have become somewhat more concerned with fiscal issues as I have gotten older, become a parent, and had more responsibilities in my work life. However, much of which capitalism allows -destruction of jobs, neighborhoods and livelihoods, out-sourcing, destruction of industries such as manufacturing that helped folks have better lives, obsession with the bottom line, greed, reduced business ethics and the laissez-faire attitudes about the structures that underlie ever-increasing poverty here and abroad - horrify me.

[Lucian]

50. I'm left of Ghandi and The Dalai Lama in the political compass test.

So yeah, most of the time I feel as though I'm too liberal to be a Democrat, especially today's Democrats.

[ghostsofgiants]

57. Haha, in the Political Compass I'm in the -8 to -9 area in both scales.

[Lucian]

65. So am I.

[GreenPartyVoter]

53. *scuffs toe in dirt* Ummmmmm.......

LOL :hi:

[mdmc]

74. perhaps

perhaps

[ghostsofgiants]

56. Holy fuck, yes.

If I was American I'd likely only vote Democrat if I was in a swing state.

[otherlander]

60. I'm not a Democrat.

I just voted for three of them on the principle of harm reduction. :hi:

[alarimer]

62. For that reason, I no longer consider myself a Democrat.

And for the reason that Congressional Dems are all a bunch of spineless weasels. No thanks, I've had enough of that!

[TheKentuckian]

63. It comes and it goes

I'm pretty much a social libertarian/mixed economy socialist. I have enough variety of views that being a Democrat isn't way off/good as anything else. I'd love to see the Democrats split, let the Greens and Socialists or whoever to step up on the left, get a few of the paleo-cons back in the mix, and have the Libertarians come to the table and see what random coalitions spring up.

I can side with about any of those groups depending on the issue on hand but generally and functionally I'm somewhere between a Socialist and a Democrat.

[Jamastiene]

70. I feel like the Democrats have moved too far to the right for me

to agree with the rest of the party on much any more. That's more how I look at it. I'm left of center, sure, but not TOO far left. The Democratic Party is just too far right nowadays for my liking.

[jakefrep]

73. I'm only certain of one thing:

I'm too far to the left to be a Republican.

[KG]

75. yes, that's why I'm not.

[ThomCat]

76. Yes. The democratic part is owned and operated

by corporatist, unprincipled, spineless people who simply want to sit in the chair and pretend to have power. They don't actually want to do anything useful, and they certainly don't want to do anything to help anyone but themselves, their rich peers, and their corporate owners.

They're better than the republicans, but that's like saying a pneumonia is better than the plague. It's still not good for you, and it's still deadly.

It would be wonderful if we actually a left wing in this country.

[TZ]

79. Thats all politicians in all countries.

Its got more to do with the system than anything else.

[GalleryGod]

77. Absolutely. I'm more in line with Britain's New Labour Party!

Actually for 5 pounds...I became an "honorary" member this Summer!

[ikojo]

78. Yes, on a daily basis.

And I know people who are further to the left than I am.