Since Monday is Columbus Day, what is your take on Columbus

[old mark]

discovering America - Did he, did someone else, who, why and so what?

When I was working, I loved Columbus Day because we had a long weekend, usually great fall weather, football, hiking,and I didn't care about the history/politics of any of it.
I have to admit, I really still don't.

mark

[dropkickpa]

1. I don't get the day off

Sucks.

[MissMillie]

2. I've never been there

:shrug:

[mainegreen]

3. Well, old school siberians got here first. The polynesians beat him as well.

As did the Vikings.

So that's what, 4th place at best? That doesn't even get you on the podium.

[Aristus]

4. Greedy, self-aggrandizing, social-climbing twit.

He had some navigational skills, but he put them to use searching for gold for his morally-bankrupt Spanish masters. If he hadn't opened up the New World to conquest and plunder, someone else would have. But there's no getting away from the fact that he's got blood on his hands.

His reputation has stood too high for too long, and is finally beginning to diminish somewhat. Perhaps in a century or so, we'll no longer celebrate his absurdly overrated life...

[RebelOne]

5. I'm on the side of the Native Americans.

www.petitiononline.com/20021014/petition.html

[old mark]

9. This is great! thanks for posting this link.

I signed it, and added a short personal message.
Part of my mother's family is Osage, and I'd like a holiday for Native Americans anyway, even if they keep Chris's day.

The reason I got off is that I worked for the State - we got a lot of hilidays that most others did not. (Presidents Day, Veterans Day, like that...)

But I'm retired now, so I'm off every day anyway..


Thanks for the responses.

mark

[One_Life_To_Give]

6. Didn't the French Discover America?

Didn't I just see where some Archeologist found that a Spearpoint design from France was found to have spread from the Atlantic Coast during and following the last iceage?

[malta blue]

7. I don't get the day off.

I have visited the site of the original landing by Columbus in the Dominican Republic. I have studied the history of that site and want to continue studying the archaeology of contact period DR.

[Orsino]

8. I tend to side with Vonnegut...

...who said of 1492, that that wasn't the year the continent and indigenous people were discovered. "That was merely the year sea pirates began to rob and kill them." Or something like that.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. I think those who were already living here would disagree.

The ancient Greeks knew the Earth wasn’t flat 2000 years before Columbus was even born. The theory was actually birthed by Pythagoras in the 16th century, B.C. long before he came up with his famous theory. The theory was actually proved by Ptolemy in the 2nd century A.D. Before Columbus even thought about sailing to “The New World” he had been studying with maps depicting a round Earth. And the idea that he could not get support for his journey because people thought he would simply fall off the edge is just silly. He couldn’t get funding or support because people thought it was ridiculous to reach the Orient by sailing west.

And Columbus never actually set foot in North America. The closest he ever got was some of the Carribean Islands and South America. The island he “discovered” was actually already inhabited so technically he just sailed out for the orient and found people living somewhere else. That’s pretty much it. And even Columbus did not want to take credit for discovering a brand new continent; he thought he had reached India. Which is why he called the Natives Indians. So he sailed out for the Orient, found some islands with people on it and died thinking he was in India. Not an amazing guy, really. He also was not a nice guy either, despite some belief that he made friends with the people he “discovered.” He made them grovel at his feet and reward him and his men with gifts of gold. Those that refused to worship him had their hands cut off. And after only 2 years he managed to kill off half of Haiti’s 250,000 inhabitants. Columbus was misguided, a shitty navigator, a murderer, a thief and a rapist and we have a holiday commemorating him. I guess it fits, being the country we are.

[Blue_Tires]

15. +1

i hope more teachers wise up...i still remember how big of a deal columbus day was when i was a grade-schooler back in the 80s

we would have plays, projects, essays, you name it...

and after that, we can start to discuss 'the first thanksgiving'

[Resuscitated Ethics]

11. 1492 is ripe for disproving in common knowledge

Scholars already regard the 1492 "discovery" as patriotic bunk.

Love this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New_Revelations_of_the_Americas_Before_Columbus

"Mann concludes that Indians were a "keystone species," one that "affects the survival and abundance of many other species." By the time the Europeans arrived and settled in the Americas, the "boss" (Indians) had been almost completely eliminated. Disease ran rampant and killed off the Indians, disrupting their control of the environment. When Indians died, animal populations, such as that of the buffalo grew immensely. "Because they (Europeans) did not burn the land with the same skill and frequency as its previous occupants, the forests grew thicker." The world discovered by Christopher Columbus was “largely an inadvertent European creation.”"

"In fourteen hundred and ninety two Columbus sailed the ocean blue" is right up there with George Washington chopping down the cherry tree.

[undeterred]

12. He worked pretty damn well without a map.

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. The Americans were already here.

We owe them rather a lot, don't we?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. It should be observed for historical purposes, but probably not "celebrated"

Given that Columbus merely "discovered" (by accident) an area of land that other human beings had long been living in, plus factoring in the centuries of warfare and disease that was subsquently brought upon the native inhabitants as a result of the "discovery", Columbus just doesn't have the cache that he used to.

But on the other hand, his "discovery" (as watered down as it might be) did signal the beginning of the modern era of European exploration of the Western Hemisphere and set into motion the events that would ultimately lead to the founding of this country. So I don't think we should necessarily gloss over the historical event just because of some of the less than savory consequences of the "discovery."

[demmiblue]

16. Howard Zinn is one take:

http://books.google.com/books?id=P8V7J5qm5-YC&dq=Howard+Zinn&pg=PP1&ots=hsIoYfAxrr&sig=Yrz4P8J-WAOPhqO0U3Lx41_b1SQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPP1,M1

[whistler162]

17. Actually Monday is Leif Ericson day!

they just ain't able to spel good!

[Lucian]

18. Um, he didn't discover America.

There were people here way before he got here.

[Orrex]

19. And IIRC, Ol' Chris never set foot on what we call America

Shame on those brown people for trying to steal credit for the discovery!

[whistler162]

20. True Monday should be a day of celebration for

the cruise ship lines.