Am I the only one with a spouse who can't be wrong?

[mreilly]

Hate to engage in a self-pitying rant but I need to vent here: married to my wife almost ten years; with her in a relationship for twelve and after all this time I've yet to ever see a single, solitary instance of her ever being wrong. Amazing. It is truly fucking amazing. Not just never factually wrong, but never wrong from a perspective basis either.

You know all the talk about how marriages work based on communication? Well, I've found the opposite: this marriage works on lack of communication, at least insofar as never discussing anything disagreeable. Because when your spouse is always right, any opposing view you may have must automatically be wrong. Which leads to an argument. Which leads to more "You can't possibly be right, since my view is right. Therefore you are wrong."

Basically I've gotten by ten years by focusing on the positives and never, ever wasting my time discussing anything controversial. Because what happens is the issue gets discussed but never addressed, no progress gets made (because, you know, I'm wrong about whatever the issue may be), I wind up pissed off and completely unable to get her to even acknowledge that a viewpoint other than her own might hold an ounce of weight, and things are worse than before, at least until the issue finally dries up and blows away, one way or the other.

Same thing tonight. Endless pressure on me from work (I actually work 1.5 jobs) and the wife is always on my ass to get home on time due to her schedule (due the nature of my job sometimes it is literally impossible to get untangled to leave at 5 pm on the nose). I do more stuff around the house than any husband I know. So finally I bite the bullet and ask her to knock off the "Where are you??! Why aren't you on your way home now??" bullshit - which is going to help put me in an early grave thanks to my feeling like I have to rush home all the time - and tell her to get off my ass, does it change anything? Lead to an acknowledgement of how much I've got to juggle or - God forbid - some appreciation of my contributions? No, once again I'm wrong to feel that way. How could I think she was putting pressure on me with all the constant nagging? She can't possibly envision where that's coming from. Another so-called "discussion" which led to a completely unproductive conflict which is just going to have to evaporate like smoke after fireworks.

There are times like this when I really think what would be involved with splitting up. Then I realize I don't want to live in a different house from my kids, the financial and emotional costs of divorce are staggering, and things are usually "good enough" when the storm blows over, at least until the next time I decide to be wrong and have an opinion that's not kosher. I'll tell you, though, there is a fantasy that runs through my head of dropping those divorce papers down the very night our last child goes off to college.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. You're not alone

I had a number of clients, men in situations very much like yours, all for different reasons (one guy, a radiologist, used to get beaten up regularly by his wife). They were all loathe, like you, to leave their kids, get sucked into the financial black hole that is the life of a divorced male in America.

But, they waited, and, as you dream about, they did it when the kids were gone. One man, in fact, was at the beach with his wife, on holiday, when he was "called back to the office." He went back to town, cleaned out the house, moved into the place he'd already rented, emptied out the accounts, and helicoptered back to the beach, where he told her he was leaving.

A couple of years later, he married the widow of his best college buddy, and now, a lot of years later, they're still very happy.

It's rough, but you make sense. I tell you this just to let you know you're not alone, that a lot of others have been in your position, and that there is a way out. In the meantime, you are in good company here at DU.

You will survive, and then you will prevail.

Good luck.

[mreilly]

2. Thanks

Good to know these things; I appreciate the reply.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

3. as an adult child of parents who waited until "all the kids were grown"

til they got divorced. it is not necesarily the best excuse to use for NOT getting a divorce.

[ThomCat]

4. As soon as you can,

please get out of there. Nobody should have to stay in any relationship or environment that is emotionally abusive, and if you are describing it accurately then yours certainly seems to qualify. :(

Start preparing. Start putting away small amounts of money somewhere in only your own name so that you'll have an escape fund, and make sure you never have a bank card or bank statement where it can be found. Keep everything in your office. Have statements go to a PO box.

Start getting documentation of any abuse, even if it isn't physical abuse. If you can prove it, and you come prepared to prove it, then you have a much better chance of getting custody in a divorce settlement. Don't wait until after you file for divorce to start finding evidence. You'll need to be able to prove that it was happening Now.

Do you have close friends who are independent of her? You need a support network that is yours, and your alone.

Please be well. :hug:

[TrogL]

5. The kids know what's going on - you're not saving them from anything

[vi5]

6. Look, I'll be blunt with you....

My parent's relationship is like this. They've been together 40 years this year. I can't tell you how many times growing up I just wish they had divorced. They always said they loved each other, and there were and are nice moments, and after so many years their life is in a groove.

The other piece was that my dad worked and my mom didn't (or didn't have a "career"). So she was and is fairly dependent on my dad financially and just in terms of day to day life. It doesn't sound like you have that aspect in your relationship, but that just made it worse because with every passing year, the notion of him leaving would become less and less likely because as miserable as he's been, leaving would devastate her life more than if he had done it when they were younger and she could have rebounded out into her own, less dependent life.

[Phentex]

7. Maybe she doesn't HEAR you...

It's hard to know both of your communication styles from what you've written here. But maybe because these "discussions" tend to happen at the point of the nagging, both of you have gone into your usual modes and tuned out the other person.

Have you tried talking to her away from it all at a time when you are both open to hearing each other? Instead of sweeping it away when you both calm down, choose a time you can talk about it. Tell her you want to talk about it. Get her undivided attention and tell her how she makes you feel. Point out your contributions. Acknowledge hers. What is it about HER schedule that is so rigid? Work toward coming up with a solution that isn't passive agressive for either of you. (She'll nag, you'll be stressed, you'll be home later, she'll nag even more - viscious cycle!)

Good luck to you.

[zanne]

8. I've been wrong for 29 years.

I have to chuckle at the idea of it, though, because it can be really ridiculous. The last time I was wrong was when I told my husband his doctor's appointment was on the 14th. Here's how it went:

Me: Hon, your appointment's on the 14th.

Hubby: No, it isn't.

Me: Yes, it is.

Hubby: No it isn't.

(I find the appointment card and show it to him)

Me: See? It's on the fourteenth.

Hubby: That's what I said.

[raccoon]

10. You must have the patience of Job. nt

[zanne]

13. Nah. I just know how to pick my battles. nt

[raccoon]

9. I had a co-worker like that, and that was bad enough.

Three suggestions I have.

(1) marriage counseling

(2) Al Anon (for you) (regardless of whether or not she drinks. It teaches you to detach from insanity around you.)

(3) Just say, "Whatever."

[mainegreen]

11. Answer: Stay calm, and just say 'no'.

Seriously, you have rights. You just have a naturally bossy person as a partner. I can relate. My wife is a natural bosser, so much so that she tried to tell me how to hold the dishtowel when I dried the dishes last night! :rofl:

You just need to find a way to be assertive about things that are important to you and let her know that there will no compromise on these things until she finds a way to learn to compromise. Until you reach that point, you've just got to say, 'Nope,' to certain things.

Fortunately for me, my wife is also very good tempered, and she has realized she has an 'inner bossy'. I think she really realized it the day her dad said to her something along the lines of 'holy cow, you really are bossy!' when he'd been watching her try to order me around. :rofl:

Also, fortunately for me, I've mastered my inner zen. :P

[jobycom]

12. Nah, that was a big factor in my marriage ending.

It wasn't the only factor, and frankly, it sounds like yours has other issues, too. I say that because usually in a happy marriage where both sides respect and trust each other and all that, you get over issues of personal stubborness. It becomes just one of those quirks you even sort of like, or at least find familiar, in your spouse. When nothing is working, there's usually deeper issues of compatibility.

Can't tell you what to do. I can say I stayed in the marriage 19 years. The whole time wasn't bad, obviously, but the last ten years were a downward spiral, and the marriage only existed because of the kids. Eventually, I decided to leave when she began treating our older daughter the same way she treated me, and I was stuck in a cycle of either getting into huge fights with her in front of the kids, or letting her abuse our daughter without interference. I chose to leave, and give our daughter (both daughters, but she only did this to the older daughter, and treated the younger one better) a place to go.

I made sure to stay nearby, and before I left I had arranged my life so that she couldn't shut me out from the kids. I had arranged my job early on so that I could get off from work in the afternoons and pick the kids up from school, and I continued to do that, so that they wound up with me in the afternoons, at least. I also didn't get a divorce, so she couldn't claim custody. She at least didn't force the issue, so it worked out well.

It was easier for me because she was the one who worked longer hours. Sounds like you would have a different situation. I can't really offer advice, I'm just offering some perspective by comparison, I guess. If I were to offer advice, I'd say don't do anything drastic based on frustrations of the moment, or even on personal emotion. Think it through. Figure out what you really want. Do you just want her to stop nagging? If so, consider counseling, or consider some drastic step to get her attention. I had a friend who called the cops on his wife after an intense argument, because she was physically trying to prevent him from walking out, and he knew he didn't want to physically push her out of the way. It got her attention. He wasn't blameless, though, and he had to make adjustments.

If you want to leave, figure out why. Do you want to date someone else and remarry within a year or two, or just date around the field, or just be on your own for a while to get things sorted out? You may find once you are out that your plans changed--I had thought I wanted to find someone new, but once alone, I discovered I had no real interest in another relationship. What you decide will give you an idea of how to proceed, and also help put your needs into perspective. Maybe you don't really want to leave. Maybe leaving is just a desire to make things change.

Most of all, figure out what will happen to the children. If you work, and she's home, she'll get the kids, and you might not get anything more than visitation rights. Also, figure out whether you think she would remarry quickly, cutting you even further out. If you are like me, that won't be an option. My kids were all that was important to me, and I wasn't going to leave them with her, once I saw how she was treating them. You have to figure out your priorities there.

In most separations I've seen, one person's life stays pretty much the same, and the other's changes completely. One person stays where they were, keeps the kids, and all that's different is that the other person doesn't come home anymore. Sounds like she has a better chance of that happening than you, at this point. In some separations, everything changes dramatically for both parties. Homes are sold, lifestyles are altered, jobs are changed. In some separations, very little changes for either. That was/is how mine works. I moved into an apartment. I continued to pick my kids up from school and do what I had done before with them. She continued to work late, and she got the kids when she got off work. We were just free from each other.

Figure out where you want to be next year, and figure out how to get there, concerning you, your spouse, your kids. Make changes with that in mind, and things will go smoother for everyone. Also, consider the possibility that you are being one-sided. From your description, frankly, you sound like you have tried, and that you do have both perspectives in mind, at least better than most, but still, before making life-altering choices, think about her side. Is she depressed? Is she overwhelmed? Is she bored of her lifestyle? And here's the critical thing: what would make her happier? Some people truly are one-sided, and are only happy when they have someone to bully. In that case, she won't change, and any accomodations you make will only make her worse. But if she is in over her head, even if it's not your fault, than maybe a change or two for her could make things better. Thing about the old her, and what you liked about her, and decide if she has changed, or you just finally realized what she was like. If she changed, then maybe something is causing that. Depression, stress, fear. Maybe you could do something to help her.

My friend who called the cops had a further chapter. His spouse began trying to be less confrontational. A couple months later, they rushed her to the hospital with chest and arm pains, sure she was having a heartattack--in her early thirties. She had no heart problems, it was just overwhelming stress. She had internalized it trying to act nicer to him, and that's how it erupted. The doctors put her on a stress reducer/anti-depressant. A mild one. And it has made all the difference. She is calmer, she is happier, and, according to him, she's the woman he first met. It's helped them both see what the real problems were.

It's rarely that simple, but sometimes it is. So think about it all, from all sides. Plan. Most of all, consider the kids, and consider their needs over everyone else's. Adjust.

Way too much writing, i know, but I have to go to work, so I don't have time to write shorter. :)

[Orsino]

14. You are now.

But I see much that is familiar in your post. I had to get by in a marriage once by focusing on the positives and ignoring (as best I could) the toxic negatives wile working jobs that occupied much more than nine-to-five. I didn't choose to end that relationship, but I am extremely well rid of it.

That doesn't mean divorce is right for you, though. If there is a way to get into counseling--both of you--please consider it. Added perspective from an objective third party is valuable.

[NewJeffCT]

15. sounds a bit like my ex-wife

she was never wrong, either, and whenever anything went wrong, it was always my fault. Luckily, we had no kids by the time we divorced.

I was depressed & stressed a lot of the time - on top of the failing marriage, I was working 80 hours a week at a very demanding job, doing almost all the housework, plus taking care of her dog. I would come home from work after 9pm, walk her dog and/or clean up the dog shit if she didn't walk him, put any dirty clothes in the washer and then get ready for bed.... then, I'd get up at 4am or so to walk the dog again, put the washed clothes in the dryer and then head off to work...

And, I mean almost all the housework- I went away on a 3 day business trip and came back to find 3 days worth of dirty dishes piled into the sink, dirty clothes in the middle of the floor, etc, etc... and I'm sure if I asked her why she didn't wash the dishes (we didn't have a dishwasher), she would have yelled at me that I was lucky that she put them in the sink and that she was stressed out over some minor issue that popped up at her part-time job as a waitress. Heck, I'd ask her why she didn't clean up the coffee she had spilled onto the carpet and I'd get yelled at!

I was kind of blinded into believing that if I just worked a little bit harder and did a little bit more, things would work out in our marriage and we'd be back to how we were before we got married... but, it never changed and eventually we got divorced and it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders, and I went crazy dating like Captain Kirk for a couple of years afterwards.