Parenting help required please!

[mwooldri]

I'd never thought I'd ask the Lounge on a topic like this but here goes.

My wife, I and my five year old son share a bed. (yes king size). I says 5 years old is too old to be sleeping in the same bed as us, and that he really should be in his own bed. Yes, he has his own bed, his own room, but pretty much every time we tried getting him to his own bed it's been faced with a lot of tears and when he does fall asleep in his own bed usually in the middle of the night he's wiggled his way right between us. We had a "deal" - since I work nights and my wife work days, he could sleep with mummy on the days I work and sleep in his own bed on the days I have off. But that deal broke down. Last week I got fed up to the point that heck, I'm fed up of being kicked in the back repeatedly I'M going to sleep in his bed. (Admittedly I can't stand anyone touching me when I sleep, not even my wife, and my son's a wiggler and a hugger).

If he were a normal son I guess the time had come to lay down the law, or had it? My niece slept with her mummy until she was 6 - then she "grew out" of it. My sis-in-law's subsequent children started sleeping on their own much much earlier. I don't remember sleeping with my parents at all, and neither does my parents.

Where the situation changes though is that on Monday he goes in for some pretty major surgery; he'll be in for 2 weeks and will be discharged with all kinds of tubes and we'll probably keep him out of school for about 6 weeks.

So when should we do it? How should we do it? Any advice?

Thanks, Mark.

[cyberswede]

1. Hmm...

I would consider using the surgery as a perfect transition to him sleeping in his own bed from now on.

When he gets home from the hospital, just start having him sleep in his own bed. As a buffer, I would suggest sitting in his room with him until he falls asleep for a couple days to comfort him, especially since he'll be recovering (you and your wife might take turns). Turn out the lights per usual, and don't talk to him, just be there to comfort him if he needs it.

Once he has recovered, you can tell him that he's such a big boy now that he can stay in his bed from now on. I think you'll all sleep better in the long run. :)

Best of luck to your son with his surgery!

thx - cs

[mwooldri]

36. Tis a nice idea... and thanks for your thoughts...

... I do appreciate it. Sorry I didn't reply earlier.

Thanks again, Mark.

[npk]

2. Hi Mark

I have an 11 year old son so I will share my two cents for what it's worth, all though up front I can tell ya I am not exactly father of the year material. My son had the same problem with wanting to sleep with me and wife, well ex wife now, bed. My wife would allow him to fall asleep in bed with her, and then when I came to bed he would already be in the middle of the bed. For a while I tried waiting till he was completely a sleep and then carrying him to his own bed. But he would wake up a short time later and walk back into our room, and then had a tendency of jabbing me in the side until I woke up. Oddly he never jabbed his mother in the side only me. Anyway finally I decided the only way to stop this was to insist to my wife that our son Josh, sleep in his own bed and not allow him to fall asleep in our bed. We started this cold turkey and of course fist night we tried it he came back into our bedroom. But we just kept taking him back to his own bed, night after night, until finally he got the picture. It took about a month and half but he finally started sleeping in his own bed. As a reward we allowed him more privileges around the house to enforce good behavior, well actually that was my wife's idea. My son was around five when we started making him sleep in his own bed, so I would say your situation as described is completely normal. Well at least as normal as my situation was. Today my son yearns to be left alone, and tells me never to hug him in public. Ah growing up. He went from never wanting to leave my side, to now I am constantly having to ask myself, "Where the hell is the boy." And I get the "Dad you embarrass me in front of my friends all the time." Actually the latter is one of the few joys of raising kids. Ah just kidding. Hope that helps.

[npk]

3. Sorry I overlooked last line of your story

I guess I would wait till he is fully recovered from his surgery before starting.

[mwooldri]

17. It's what I'm coming around to.

I thank you for your input, it's appreciated.

Mark.

[Tikki]

4. Make HIS room friendly and familiar for the homecoming, maybe even with an item or...

two from your bed and pictures, books, toys...

After having spent two weeks in a bed by himself
in the hospital...then would be your perfect opportunity to
let him know how important it is for him to heal up in HIS
OWN space at home.

Tell him that mom or dad or both of you are right there when he needs you and plan
on spending a lot of sharing time with him.

I know it can be scary with a child under stress...but children universally
respond to feeling comfort and love and their own independence.

Tikki

YAY for caring parents :bounce:

[mwooldri]

10. We've tried... he's had a hand in arranging his room...

... choosing pictures to put up.

We tried Mummy sleeping in his bed with him but Mummy works hard too and inevitably mummy just falls asleep there too...

I hate the "cold turkey" approach.

But I appreciate your input!

Mark.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. I've never faced a situation like this so I'm not sure how good this advice is.

Would it be possible to move his bed into your room while he is recovering from surgery? He could sleep in his own bed, but still in a familiar setting with you and Mom close by. Maybe later you could complete the transition by moving his bed back to his room and make it seem really special with maybe some new bedding or something.

At any rate, I hope all goes well with the surgery and that he recovers quickly.

[mwooldri]

19. It really is a nice idea and we have tried it with a "pallet on the floor"...

... but we can't fit his bed and our king sized into our bedroom. It's not that big a place (yeah call me trailer trash if you must - a 21 y/o singlewide, but it's paid for and no house payments whilst we save up for a "real house".).

Thanks again for your kind thoughts, Mark.

[Arkansas Granny]

31. Naw. No trailer trash remarks from me.

[mwooldri]

32. ;)

[LeftyMom]

6. He'll move when he's ready. If he's resistant, he's probably not ready.

If you've tried moving him and he's not cool with it, he's probably really needing the comfort of touch. Since he's got a health issue and probably some related anxiety, that's really not surprising.

I'd hold off until after his recovery is complete.

[mwooldri]

13. Yeah, that's what Im thinking now too...

.. holding off that is.

Thank you, Mark.

[Tallison]

16. As a nurse I kind of agree

One major change at a time.

Best wishes for his surgery!

[secondwind]

7. Relax..... it's called "Attachment Parenting", and it is very popular....

you have nothing to worry about.

[mwooldri]

18. Yeah and it got me thinking too.

... maybe I'm thinking of something wrong.

There is one issue. Two adults and a 5 year old are sharing 1 bed. The two adults want to indulge in "adult activities". Not exactly a good idea, what if 5 year old wakes up and asks what's going on? Solution found: keep 5 year old in bed, remove adults to kids room. Adults play in the "toy room" ehehe

I'll try it this morning.

Mark.

[grannylib]

8. I'm no expert, just a mom and a grandma...but sounds to me as though

the surgery might be a golden opportunity for you to get him into his own room/bed. Once he does come home, you can tell him the DOCTOR said he has to sleep in his bed, but that you will stay with him for whatever length of time you determine is appropriate for his condition, and you can reduce that as he recovers. Don't sleep in the bed with him: put a cot or air mattress in for you/your wife. Again, "blame" it on the doctor (get his/her assistance with this - clue him/her in - ).

Just a thought!
Good luck...

[otherlander]

11. Lying to children is AWESOME!

:thumbsup:

[mwooldri]

15. But you feel awful guilty afterwards though.

Even if it's little white lies like "I want to go to the Children's Museum" - if it's inconvenient sometimes we'll tell him "it's closed" even though it's not.

[mwooldri]

14. It's an idea I'll run by mummy...

Definitely worth thinking about.

Thanks, Mark.

[Blue Diadem]

9. If he's going to be in the hospital for 2 weeks,

it may be a good time for him to begin sleeping in his own bed when he's released. Being in the hospital will help him get used to sleeping alone, so it may be an easier transition to just expect it when he gets home. Have you spoken to the pediatrician about it? He/she may have some suggestions for you, especially about whether the trauma of a surgery & hospital stay plus separation at bedtime once he's home might be too much for the little guy.

[mwooldri]

12. I wonder what will happen this time...

Last time he was in hospital he fell asleep with mummy in the mummy-bed (which doubles as the guest couch) and then gently moved to the hospital "crib". That was when he was 2.

He's 5 now...

I hadn't spoke to our family practictioner - when it came to the surgery we pretty much dealt with our surgeon - he specializes with kids and urological issues.

Though I do have an idea...

He's now asking why I don't sleep with them. I guess I'd better tell him his bed is more comfortable! He complained that his bed was less comfortable than ours ($200 twin-sized bed vs gifted top-of-the-line Spring Air mattress - sorry Spring Air wins hands down in this contest) and that it was "old" (the Spring air's much older). If he sees Dad sleeping there maybe it might entice him to join? I don't know...

Thank you!

Mark.

[marzipanni]

23. My (now 13 year old) son slept in a 'sidecar bed' my husband built.

It was a solid sided large crib with three sides and had a foam mattress the same level as ours, stuck to my side of the bed (it was perfect when he was a baby and awoke to nurse on cold nights).

When he was about your son's age he was tall enough that he was sticking his legs diagonally into the area where my legs were. That was when we all decided it was time to move to his own big bed!
I got a twin foam mattress at Ikea for about $80.00 so it would feel similar.
Our dog and he share his bed when he first goes to bed, unless the weather is hot, so he didn't feel lonely.
Maybe you could give your son a new stuffed animal when he goes to the hospital, and it could be his new bed buddy.

[mwooldri]

27. That is neat - a built sidecar bed :)

Oh I wish I could get my son to sleep with Shadow (our Siberian Husky). Then they'd be sleep buddies until it's time for Shadow to go home upstairs.

Mark.

[Mutley]

20. I don't have my own kids, but I can tell you this

My sister and BIL did the same thing with my niece. She is now 11, and still won't sleep in a room alone. She has to share a room with her little brother, which he is okay with for now, but won't be in a few years. Whenever he is not home for whatever reason, she ends up sleeping with my sister and BIL.

Of course, all children are different. Yours may not end up like my niece, but then again, he might. Better to nip that habit in the bud now while he is still young.

[mwooldri]

26. As others have said... I've made a decision

I'm hanging on till end of surgery and recovery.

As for the niece... there's an awful lot of difference I find in an 11 year old girl vs a 13 year old girl. My niece, 13, desperately wants her own room; she has to share with her 3 year old sister.

Mark.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Do which ever you prefer.

If you don't mind it, fine.

If it's getting to much to put up with it, have him sleep in his own bed.

Trust yourself.

[mwooldri]

29. Well I got lots of ideas, and thanks for your advice.

I appreciate it... yep sometimes I got to just trust myself.

Thanks, Mark.

[PassingFair]

22. We had that problem with my oldest daughter.

I got SICK of taking her back to her bed,
night after night of tears,
only to have her crawl back in when I
had dozed off again.

Finally I read an article that suggested that
we have a PARTY in bed, with ice-cream, pajamas
and games, BUT only if she stayed in her own
bed, all night, for a FULL WEEK.

It worked like a charm. Two parties, and she
was sleeping in her own bed every night, and
the bed had lost its allure.

Don't know if it is a cure-all for everyone,
but once she realized that she could get herself
back to sleep once she woke up, she stopped
looking for Mommy....

[mwooldri]

24. Another good idea! Thanks! nt

[fed_up_mother]

25. When my husband leaves town, I don't sleep well in the bed alone for the first few days

And there's a reason for it. When we go into lighter phases of sleep, we become semi-aware that that warm body is no longer there. Your son is now accustomed to sleeping next to you, and really "can't" sleep through the night by himself. It's now a habit for the same reason I have trouble sleeping without my husband.

He will likely transition easier after being in the hospital (from a pure sleep point of view), although he'll probably be quite emotionally needy. Stay with him in his room until he goes to sleep if you must, but don't get in bed with him! If necessary keep a monitor in his room so he can call out to you, even if his room is very close. It will help him feel safer.

I know this is hard, but you can train him to sleep alone in one week if you don't give in.

I also agree with the poster to do something special in his room for his homecoming.

Good luck.

[mwooldri]

28. True: Son and wife sleep better together.

I just can't sleep well with anyone next to me. Can't explain it. Wife craves me cuddling up and would just love to fall asleep on top of me. My son is same way, always got to be touching a body. Often he will end up perpendicular to us: head on mummy, legs kicking me...

Thanks again, Mark.

[SmokingJacket]

30. Bribery.

There's nothing wrong with bribery when it's done right. If you want the kid to do something, but the kid gets no benefit from it, I think it's perfectly legitimate to make that thing be rewarding in some way. Three nights in his own bed, he gets a really cool treat. Why not?

I don't believe in bribery when it's something the kid *ought* to do, but if it's just a think I want them to do, I think bribery makes sense.

[mwooldri]

34. Tried it... hence the "deal".

there was a certain mouse place available for him.

But we're bad parents and take him anyways.

Mark.

[dropkickpa]

33. Honestly?

When I got into this battle with Dropkid (at about 5/6) I ended up just putting a lock on my door to stop the late night sneak-in's. I *finally* got a good nights sleep after years of very poor sleeping. I don't like sharing my bed and do NOT sleep well at all if there's anyone else in it, especially an octopus full of flying elbows that both snores and talks in it's sleep. The thing is, SHE sleeps better when she's in her bed, too. She seems to sleep more deeply, she's less grumpy in the morning, and she seems to be better rested overall. Occasional sleeping with me is okay, but ONLY occasionally, and I make sure she knows that. It actually makes it more special for her, and I'm willing to lose that sleep once in a while.

[mwooldri]

35. I like the idea of a lock on the door...

... was dropkid's sneak ins accompanied by tears, wails, stuff that kills your heartstrings that wouldn't stop? If it was "couldn't open the door oh well never mind lets go back to my own bed" kind of reaction I could do that... right now it's like a phobia of being alone in his own bed. Just locking the door would probably damage his pscyhe and wreck ours too.

Mark.

[dropkickpa]

37. Sneaking in after I fell asleep

So the locked door just stymied the attempt and she'd go back to bed.

[momto3]

38. My daughter was the same way.

She has always been very attached to me. I believe it was her own fears and insecurities that kept her coming into bed with us, so I did not want to push her out until she was ready. It was hard, mostly because she always wanted to sleep with her feet in my back! She is almost 9 now and is finally preferring her own room to ours. My thinking towards this problem was that at some point she was not going to need or want to be that close to me. I chose to enjoy it while it lasted. This worked for us, but may not be the answer for you. It was easier for me to share my bed with her since my husband travels frequently and it was usually just the two of us in the bed.

Your son will out grow this as well. I agree with all the other advice that moving him to his own room after the hospital may work best. Good luck. I hope his surgery goes smoothly.

T

[NewJeffCT]

39. I would suggest slowly trying to break him of it

maybe a small bribe if he spends the night in his own bed?

and, sorry to hear about the surgery. Best of luck with that.

[MissMillie]

40. sounds to me like he'll be broken of that habit in the hospital

the best advice I ever got when I became a parent was to NEVER start anything that you would have to break the kid of later on... my son always went to sleep in his own bed. I didn't rock him, or hold him, or rub his back or anything. I put him down and let him fall asleep.

[AngryAmish]

41. Healthy Sleep habits, Healthy Child

Now, 'lilAA is just 8 months old, but Dr. Weissbluth is the sleep guru. Up until 5 months 'lilAA was hard to deal with sleep wise. We had to rock her for an hour to get her to sleep. Now, we put her down and off she goes.

I imagine your problems are different since your tot is older. But I imagine there is good advice in there too.

Bottom line: use the extinction method. Seems cruel, but so do shots. It is for their own good.

I want to get a "sleep begets sleep" tattoo.

[Midlodemocrat]

42. How about putting a sleeping bag on the floor of your room?

Mine all slept with me, so I'm not the one to ask, but I've heard that works with some kids.