shy men?

[samuraiguppy]

a lady friend of mine came to me for some advice about her crush (who is an extremely shy man).

The sitch is that he really likes her (he has told several mutual friends) but gets so nervous around her that he can't talk to her. When she tries (in her own shy way) to start a conversation--he says something dumb and gets away from her as soon as possible.

I have no idea how to help her--as I have never been shy so it is hard for me to understand running away from someone you like. I was sure he just didn't like her that much, until I found out from mutual friends that he is crazy about her and just keeps blowing it.

She is ready to give up on him.

Shy men--and ladies who have dealt with shy men--what kind of advice would you give to me to give to her? (I know the guy--but he does not confide in me as much)

[Droopy]

1. If he can manage to hang in there long enough to get her phone number

That would be a good start. I'm somewhat of a shy guy myself and I've recently put myself out there in the dating scene. I've found that I can talk more confidently on the phone at first. Once that is established, it is easier for me to talk to the woman in person.

[samuraiguppy]

2. that's a very good idea---

I have seen him just choke up in her presence--very sad because they both are interested in each other (she confided to several friends and he has confided in several friends).

The thing is -- she is starting to get frustrated because he is OK around everyone else (although pretty quiet). Then around her he just closes up--so I think she is giving up hope and thinking that he is not interested.....

Is this a common thing for shy people to do?

[Droopy]

5. I think your friend is uncommonly shy

Maybe what they call "painfully shy." I don't know the cure. Maybe you can talk your lady friend into making the first move and giving him her number.

[amitten]

6. Why can't she just ask him out? n/t

[crim son]

3. My advice would be for her to hang in there long enough

that he feels comfortable to ask her out. Or, she might get them into a situation where asking to get together is almost inevitable. She really does need to ask herself, however, if the fellow's shyness is going to make future socializing - with friends, with family etc. - a problem. I married one of those men and the shyness/insecurity was a serious problem (though not a terminal one).

[samuraiguppy]

4. tell me about that--because she is social--

and he is very uncomfortable about people he doesn't know--especially crowds etc.

For example he rarely goes to parties--she likes them. They have mutual friends--but he doesn't always get out there....

her social phobias are due to low self esteem--she had a horribly abusive family situation.
he is from a large family (9 kids) and I think has always just faded into the background and never gotten any attention.

They are both such incredibly nice people and would make a fantastic couple--if we could ever get the ice broken. I would love to help--as they are both great friends.

[crim son]

9. Well, it sounds like there is hope for the union, that is,

his shyness or asocial behavior may not be a real preference but more a reaction to perceptions. IOW, they may have this in common, and could forage together into the wonderful world of interesting people. In my case, I was shy because I was shy, and he was shy because he was grossly insecure. I got over it; he didn't. At bottom lies the individual's conception of him/herself. If they find they are in the same place that way, there is hope.

[samuraiguppy]

10. I have a lot of hope for them---

honestly this is the first time in my life I have ever tried to play cupid.

We all belong to a snowboarding club--so they have mutual friends, activities etc. They have a lot in common--and I think they would make each other very happy. I am surprised at him--as a man I just can't imagine pining away over someone and not doing anything about it?

On her part--she has tried several times to get close to him--and he acts completely uninterested so I think she is ready to give up. She thinks he is not interested but I know it is because he is so scared around her. Isn't that wild?

[crim son]

11. It's wild, but also really sweet.

I'm wondering if you can take a more proactive role... have a hottubbing party or something. Force them together and offer them some sort of relaxing substance - LIKE BEER! I don't think that "causes" like this are foolish to pursue. You may be an instrument of Fate, who know?

Hi, samuraiguppy! Glad to see you in the Lounge!

[samuraiguppy]

12. Oh I LOVE the lounge!

the people here are the BEST.

Yes--I think I will try to put them together--break the ice and see what happens.

I needed to hear this, because--men don't typically do this type of thing for each other--women usually do the matchmaking. But I really care about both of them....I think they will make a very happy couple if they can just get things started....

he told me he wanted to ask her out a while back---but he kept waiting for everything to be perfect--and then he never got around to doing it because of course nothing ever is perfect.

When I hear stuff like that -- it is just so sweet--and I think that if he got a chance at her he would cherish her--and she would appreciate him.

But of course waiting around for everything to be perfect hasn't exactly worked for him. He needs to be a little more aggressive.

[crim son]

14. I'm glad you love it here.

I've been a Lounge devotee since 2004. It has sustained me through a divorce and various untenable relationships and mishaps, my kids' growing up and every other imaginable thing. We are here because we share fundamental beliefs... it's no accident.

Anyhow, you can put them in as perfect a situation as possible. If it fails, you have done your thing and not only that, you have opened the door... wide. :)

[elshiva]

18. We love you, too.

:hug: :hug:

I don't have any advice because I am very shy...

[samuraiguppy]

21. thank you sweetie!!!

:hug: :loveya:

[elshiva]

23. You are welcome.

:hug: :loveya:

[Ava]

7. is there a reason she can't just ask him out?

:shrug:

[samuraiguppy]

8. well--I think she is nearly as shy as he is---

it is really weird--

she is comfortable around friends--but has only had one boyfriend ever. and her family is a doozy--which is why she has very low self-esteem. She is positive that she will be cruelly rejected if she makes a move--especially since she has already tried to brooch conversations with him a few times. Each time he gives her a curt reply--and then gets away from her as quickly as he can. So she pretty much had given up.

Now--I found out he is crazy about her--and just had acted this way because---well I don't understand it--because when I like a woman she knows it....

he is quiet around most people--but an absolute wreck around her....

they are both the sweetest, kindest people you could ever imagine---

I guess I could figure out a sneaky way to throw them together...

[jobycom]

13. Depends on why and how he's shy, or if he's shy.

Some people are shy just because they aren't experienced at something. He may not know what to say because the only experience he has is from watching "How I met your Mother," or some such. The shyness may disappear once he's on familiar ground--find out what he likes, ask him to do that, and maybe he'll loosen up. Some people really shine in their own element.

Some people are shy because of general insecurity or social awkwardness in general. If he's shy in all situations, romantic or not, this may be the case. Doesn't sound like it, if he's got a circle of friends that allows his feelings to get back to you and your friend. That's just a hard one, and would take a lot of work. Might be worth it.

Some men just don't see women as sexual objects first, and this gets confused as shyness. If he has more female friends than male, this may be him. Some men are so used to being friends with women that they have to be absolutely sure that the woman wants more from him than friendship. Women don't always see this because they are so used to being hit on by so many different men that they don't realize that some men don't do things like that. Or they assume that flirting is natural, and all they have to do is smile or make flirty small talk, and the man will automatically know what to do. But some men aren't like that. They aren't always shy, they're not even clueless. They just don't like to make demands on women who are friends without knowing that that's what's desired. Flirting and romance is often about subtlety, and vague double entendres and such. Some men use that same subtly and vaguery in their normal conversations, and so they don't recognize it as a pass, even. Once the Rubicon is crossed, all the problems with shyness may disappear, in that case.

Basically, the only solution, other than continuing methods that are awkward and unproductive, is for her to be direct. Ask him out. Make the intentions clear. Not in a confrontational way--just something relaxed, like "We should go out sometime. Ever take a date to a museum?" Don't put him on the spot, because he might be truly shy, and that might make him search for the nearest escape. But don't be subtle. Be natural. If he's got a crush on her, and she likes him, there must be something they've connected over already, so try to recreate that, so both are relaxed and in sync, and then have her ask him out, or just start a discussion with "I like you."

Part of the problem with shy is that the shy person just feels out of place and unsure what the situation really is, or what it requires. That's mostly what you have to overcome.

Just my thoughts. Probably worthless, but what the heck?

[samuraiguppy]

15. it sounds like you know a lot about shyness!

we all belong to the same skiiing/snowboarding club--and he doesn't have any problem with the people he has skiied with for years. He is not one of those guys who is friends with lots of women--he is an expert snowboarder and mostly hangs out with a few guys who are also very very good.

I know that he really wants a girlfriend--and they both find each other attractive.

I think she has made it pretty clear that she is interested in him. That is why she currently feels rejected--he acts like he is not interested. In fact most of us had already told her--write him off forget about him--because of the way he acts.

Because of the way he has acted (for the past 2 years!) I don't think there is any hope she will ask him out--she is pretty convinced it is hopeless...

Now I find out he is crazy about her--but he claims he is just paralyzed in her presence. And he is upset about how he has come across.

I think some of his shyness is always worrying about how he looks to others--he can't just relax and be himself.

The whole thing is crazy to me---but they are both so fantastic that I really want to help--I think they could be very happy together...

[jobycom]

33. Some of that's me, but most of it's just observation.

Sounds like your friend isn't shy, he's just not sure what to do, and he's afraid to risk the relationship he has on a chance at the relationship he wants. Maybe there is something he's afraid of--some reason he thinks it would be bad for him, or for her. I had another friend, a woman, who had a crush on a guy who wasn't returning her advances. Finally she just threw herself at him. She was cute, and he went for it, and they were a great couple for a year. Then he graduated and went to Japan for an internship, and left her. That had been his hold-up all along--he knew his future plans involved him traveling and he didn't want to get involved in anything temporary. He did, anyway, and it hurt both of them. Then again, they may have been more hurt if they had never hooked up. So maybe there's some reason other than just his being awestruck with her that keeps him from making the move.

[Jamastiene]

16. Advise them to go out for drinks, lots of them.

The only way I ever overcame my shyness was through drugs and alcohol. That also could be why I just blew it with the one I like now. If I had been high and/or drunk, I could have relaxed and not creeped her out. Instead, I blew it. At least, before, she just looked down on me. Now, she hates me. I just found out; it is official.

[samuraiguppy]

20. I am really really sorry.

This really strikes a chord--because my friend is terrified that he will mess things up...he is so scared of saying the wrong thing that he just blows her off. Have you ever done anything like that with someone and actually been crazy about them?

The only reason I am getting considering helping is because both of these people are such sweethearts, I can't imagine them ever treating anyone bad. So even if it doesn't work out--I think there won't be any big hurts (I have known both of them for years--him for 17 years and her for 6--known him longer but got closer to her--so I know them both really really well).

[Jamastiene]

34. Actually, I have done that.

I didn't mean to, but I was so terrified of messing everything up, that I walked away when I should have stayed and given it more time to get over my fears and relax some. I do have lots of regrets in that category. I'm just so tired of rejection though, that there are times when I will walk away or not let myself enjoy being around that person so I can keep control of myself.

My personal experience is that I don't want them to think badly of me. I'd rather they didn't think of me at all than get the wrong impression. That happened recently. A person I really liked got the wrong impression of me and I never was able to recover from that. They then decided I was a completely horrible person based on the wrong impression they had. All that taught me was to hide my sense of humor if I like a woman. So, that just makes me withdraw even more and makes it even harder.

That is why I suggested the drinks, or better yet, getting high. It takes the self conscious/self esteem problem completely out of the picture. That method might be a tad extreme for people who may not be into it, though. I understand that.

Something harder to do, but possible would be to find something they both have a real interest in, like a hobby or activity and suggest they do that together. That way they can both concentrate on the hobby or interest or activity instead of their feelings for each other, at least, until they both settle down and get to know each other a little bit. That might do the trick, but it would be much much better to do it as a group activity where they aren't the only two involved, but they both are involved. In other words, get a group of people, including both of them, involved in something, and hope they are able to get used to each other a little more, maybe even talk to each other some.

[elshiva]

17. Eat some PowderMilk Biscuits

They give shy persons the strength to do what needs to be done.

:hug:

[Zavulon]

19. I'd advise her to give up on him.

If he can't work up a casual conversation, what's communication in that relationship going to be like?

And if your first answer to that is "he'll loosen up once he feels more comfortable around her," my answer would be "and what guarantee do you have that he ever will?"

This guy isn't a potential boyfriend or husband, he's a potential project. Does your friend really want one?

Dump. Eject. Bail. Run. Whatever - just tell her to drop the idea now.

[samuraiguppy]

22. but he is great around everyone else.

it is because he is so crazy about her (or that is what he claims).

A while back he actually asked one of the other guys (not me) to please help him with her--but that guy liked her himself so he didn't.

So I know he really really is interested.

Then that other guy pursued her for a while--and she never would go out with him. When her girlfriends asked her why not--she confided in them that she liked the shy guy.

I know, I know....It is so very Junior High School--but some people don't develop their social skills beyond that point...

[Zavulon]

24. That doesn't change my opinion.

Try to imagine their first date. From what I gather, the guy couldn't drum up a response to "pass the salt." There isn't any potential here.

Even if a girl looked like Jessica Alba, if she couldn't speak a word to me without also looking like Cindy Brady on a quiz show I'd lose interest very quickly.

[samuraiguppy]

25. oh this girl can definitely carry on a conversation.

(he can too --with everyone except the person he is crazy about).

if they can break the ice, they have tons in common---they both are extremely well-educated (advanced degrees), successful in their careers, same religion, same political leanings, they have the same interests--snowboarding, travelling, languages, culture, they belong to a very supportive group of mutual friends. They are both happy, kind, sensitive, caring people--

just because they are shy with the opposite sex does not mean they are losers--none of my friends are losers. I have spent quite a bit of time with both of them--and always have great conversation and lots of fun.

[Zavulon]

26. I didn't say either one was a loser.

I said there was no potential for a relationship, and I stand by that. His inability to talk like an adult in front of her means he doesn't consider himself her equal. If she ever gets out of line he won't have the stones to stand up to her. There will never, ever be full communication between these two even if they do manage to break some ice.

Look, do what you want, but at age 45 I've seen a few dozen instances of this situation in my time, from junior high to late thirtysomethings, and I'm telling you - it won't work. Telling you that it CAN work is like saying you CAN win the state lottery jackpot. Theoretically possible, but it won't happen.

You've got my advice, which is to tell her to forget it. Take it or leave it, your call.

[samuraiguppy]

28. you make a good point--and it very well

could end up that way. I just feel that since they both obviously like each other--why not try to help them break the ice and see where it goes from there.

Certainly working on communication is something that has to be worked out in every relationship--it definitely promises to be a big challenge for them. But they may be capable of working it out. time will tell.

[Zavulon]

30. Every time I thought I could

break the ice and get two people together just to get them to leave me alone with their "pass her this note in gym class" BS, the would-be relationship blew up and they came crying to me twice as often as they did before. "He / she can't communicate, he /she talks too much, he / she is too cold, he / she is too clingy, he / she is too jealous, he / she is too controlling, he / she is too flirty," etc, etc, etc. When one is comfortable in his or her skin and the other is painfully shy around the first, a minimum of one of these results is as sure as death and taxes, and guess who will be on the receiving end? You will - because you know what they say about the road to hell.

If you get involved in this, be prepared to have quite a bit of your time wasted from both sides. Oh, and be prepared for resentment from one when you're seen spending time with the other - that's all just part of the territory.

If you really want to kick things off, invite them both to your place without telling the other, and when they see each other just say "You like each other, so for Christ's sake stop telling me about it and go make babies" or something equally direct. There is no point in subtlety or a gradual approach because the result will be the same - it will blow up in your face, and please remember that I did try to warn you. I do, however, respect your good intentions. They're paving a nice little road to hell, but you're still a good person for caring enough to even think of trying this. Of course, it's foolhardy and fraught with pitfalls and peril, but take my compliment as sincere anyway.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do. If you get involved, you'll need it. If your friend decides to give this guaranteed disaster a whirl, pass my wishes of good luck to her, too, because she'll need all the luck she can get.

[Roon]

27. I used to be shy, until I got put on depression meds

Now I invite my local online friends to my house or dinner and i am like BLA BLA BLA!! Like I have known them for years. I don't know if this will help your friend, but these meds were a life changing event for me.

[samuraiguppy]

29. which ones do you recommend?

Hey---we should do a virtual dinner in the lounge some night--then even the really shy people could participate from their own living rooms! I will make my famous virtual lasagna

When you were really shy--did you ever have these kinds of experiences where you wanted to approach someone of the opposite sex but had trouble (the more you liked them--the more trouble?)

I am trying to figure out how common this might be....

[HEyHEY]

38. DOOOD! the exact same thing happened to me

I was fairly shy when it came to girls. But, after two and a half years on meds now I'm like uber-forward.

[MrsBrady]

31. i married a "shy" man...i have a few suggestions

a little background first...

My husband is outgoing with his friends and very very funny. He has no problem hanging out with the guys.
I'm going to brag here, because he's just so darn wonderful in many ways, but when I was first was introducing him to my friends, the women were giving me "oh yea" and thumbs-ups behind his back! (ha ha) OK, but here is the deal with that. Many guys would have been ego maniacs with women trying to get his attention, etc.
My husband just had no clue and is STILL clueless about women. We've even had waitresses flirt with him, and he doesn't even get it. He has no clue how good looking he is.
It could have been very easy to get women, but he just had no clue.

So how does a man so shy and clueless ever get married? That's what I asked him once.
He just said something like..."after years of not dating and being lonely, I got tired of being lonely and had to take a chance." He said he was absolutely terrified at getting a "no", that he was more likely to never ask a girl out than to get rejected. He said he just couldn't handle it.
It's not like he dated much ever, but for two years before he and I met, he let people set him up and also went to dating sites. and that's how we met...my husband and I met online at a democratic match site (go figure lol, it's true)
Then, we started dating, he was soooooooo shy, he didn't even try to hold my hand at the movie on our second date. I gave him a quick peck on the cheek that night and told him to call me. I figured he was either weird or not interested. He almost blew it. (Most men would have tried to sleep with me by then.) But in fact he did not call me, but we chatted on line. He was more comfortable on line at first. But after a few weeks, we became buds and then it was on.. he he. I just had to be patient.


ok, so now you are thinking...how does this help my friend?
Well, my point is...is that the guy here is probably like my husband, and very very very shy and scared.

This is what is going to have to happen....

1) someone is just going to have to tell him to go get her number (or MAKE HIM), she likes you, go get her number....and at the same time someone clue her in that he is going to do it and to not be surprised (or say no because he waited so long). and then someone has to follow up with him to make sure he does it.
OR
2) get them chatting on line
OR
3)set each of them up on a blind date, and don't tell the other...or set up a double date with them and just make it happen in spite of themselves....and as long as neither of them have a problem with substance abuse, make them have a few.
OR
4)get her cell number, give it to one of his friends, have his friend corner him and make him call her.

something like that. that's my opinion.

and if that doesn't work, set her up with someone else...so she can move on. My husband had to have people help "hand it over" to him, but once he didn't get the initial rejection, he could handle it from there.

Keep us updated with what happens :)

[samuraiguppy]

32. thank you--your husband

sounds very similar to my friend! So your suggestions are very valuable! I am going to make a plan....

thank you so much!

[dembotoz]

35. don't get them drunk

I am very very shy.

when i drink much at all, I just become hyper shy.

not everyone has a party animal inside who wants to come out.
I have an extremely reclusive person who wants to leave.

If your friends are like me, getting them drunk will ensure failure.

folks who are very introverted are just wired different.

[MrsBrady]

36. i agree...

a few...

drunk, no...but a few...well 2 or 3 max

just depends on the people.

[HEyHEY]

37. Tell her to be blunt with him

Like REALLY blunt