SO, who is ready to move to Europe?

[Pierre.Suave]

I am damn close to picking everything up and moving over there.

I am unsure I want to be here when the economy crashes for good. Watching it now is like watching a building collapse in slow motion while the crooks in office try to prop it up until they leave office.

if John McCain somehow wins the election, I am a goner.

[Fox Mulder]

1. I am.

I want to move to Italy or somewhere along the French coast along the Mediterranean.

[Pierre.Suave]

5. Those places would be nice

Unless Canada wants to Annex Minnesota.

:P

[Fox Mulder]

7. You know...

if you or I ever run for a major political office, we could say we have foreign policy experience because we live next to Canada. :rofl:

[Pierre.Suave]

9. delete

dupe

[Pierre.Suave]

12. hell

I have BEEN to Canada...

:rofl: I am MORE experienced than Palin!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

69. I can see Canada from my window at work

I AM more experienced than Palin.

I've even been known to sample a Canadian beer or two. International culture, ain't it great!

[Arugula Latte]

61. Me too. I think about that all the time.

It's hard, though, when elderly parents are in the picture. *sigh*

[BeachBaby]

2. Count me in.

I've already been checking things out with friends there in Germany and the UK.

:hi:

[Pierre.Suave]

3. me too

I have family in Italy and Switzerland as well as friends in Germany. I think my entire family here is ready to go if we need to.

[BeachBaby]

10. Wow!

I'm 1/2 German, 1/2 Polish; Poland is too heavily entrenched in Bushco tactics, so Germany will be the roots I return to.

I got friends in the UK, friends and relatives in Germany, and friends in Canada - Toronto, Vancouver, and Alberta.

For now, keeping all options on the table until I have to make a decision.

[TZ]

18. Oddly..no one in this thread has yet to mention a country

I do have relatives in.....Israel.....I wonder why.....:D

[Pierre.Suave]

20. because I dont know anyone in Isreal

however, I DO know people in Palestine...

:P

[BeachBaby]

22. Hahahahahaha!

There ya go, Jason....you and me talking it up with the disgruntled Palestinians on the Gaza Strip.

Maybe we can finally achieve world peace! :)

[Pierre.Suave]

23. I am sure that if you and me

and a bucket of water get together with some Palestinians, we can find *something* to agree on...

:evilgrin:

[WinkyDink]

75. The capital of which would be?

[TZ]

4. Not me...

I want to go to Oz....

I have it on good authority there are lots of handsome men down there...

[Pierre.Suave]

6. well, I think you need to go tornado hunting

to get there...

:P

[bigwillq]

8. Naw..

I am a survivor...I don't just run away when times get tough. I stay and fight.

:)

[Pierre.Suave]

15. well, I wish you the best

you might want to read a history of the great depression though.

[bigwillq]

25. How about we do all we can

to elect Barack Obama instead of posting doomsday threads?!, ok?

:)

[Pierre.Suave]

92. thats what I am doing

but I have to be prepared, just incase.

[cemaphonic]

68. It'll hit Europe and Asia too though

Just like the last one did - one of the primary causes of the Weimar hyperinflation and subsequent rise of the Nazis was our financial meltdown and crop failures (as we were a huge food exporter at the time)

That said, living in Europe is nice. My parents lived in Brussels for most of my college years, so I spent my summers there.

[bicentennial_baby]

11. Nah, I love living in MA...

:hi:

[Pierre.Suave]

13. Dont get me wrong

I love MN, LOVE LOVE LOVE it, but do you want to be in the US during the crash?

[bicentennial_baby]

16. I have to finish my BA this year, and then do my PhD

So, I'm kinda stuck here for the time being. Plus, I have two gravely ill parents and a little brother to think about. Otherwise, I'd move to France. I speak French and all that. But no, I'll suffer through it. No choice, really. I'm ok. I can knit and grow a garden and milk cows, so if worse comes to worse, I'll move back to the country and eke out a life. :)

[Pierre.Suave]

19. I have school too

I would be willing to drop out and do something else with myself, or go to school in Europe, to keep my family (me and my Fiancee) from suffering.

if I was alone, hell I would move to the cabin, fish, hunt, and garden, etc... and be fine.

interestingly enough, my grandpa used to say that during the great depression nothing had changed for him and he lived his life as normal because they were so poor anyway, and lived on a farm that nothing changed EXCEPT they fed a lot more strangers.

[bicentennial_baby]

24. Well, my Mother has ALS, and my Dad has been in the hospital for 9 months

So, you can't really relate, eh? I'm willing to "suffer" for them.

[Pierre.Suave]

26. I dont know where this hostility is coming from

I have nothing against you, and know what is going on with you, at least as much as you post about it. I can only talk about my reasons.

I am very sorry for your parents, and wish there was something I could do to make it better, but I cant.

:hug:

[bicentennial_baby]

29. I'm not sure where you're getting that

But, yes, the economic situation sucks and will suck more. But, it's not 1929. The economy is wholly different, structurally, and I think you're overreacting to what's currently happening. These institutions were bound to fail, and lessons will be learned. I'm not fond of chicken-little syndrome when it comes to the economy. You cant compare 1929 and 2008, imho.

[Oeditpus Rex]

14. I think I'll move next door to Heidi and CMW

Lucy loves Swissie kitteh foods, and she and The Wiley and Excellent Boy Cat Named Ginger would have such fun in their battles for supremacy. :evilgrin:

[Pierre.Suave]

17. Sounds fun

[Heidi]

70. We would love to have you for a neighbor.

And if The Enchanting Lucy were here, Ginger would regret even more his neutering. :P

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femmocrat]

27. I would go just for the health care.

I should. I don't know what is keeping me here.

[Pierre.Suave]

28. I do know

that because of the Bush admin and the potential exodus of Americans to different countries, especially in Europe, they are restricting immigrations.

I have also heard Canada is doing the same.

[ghostsofgiants]

30. Isn't that what everyone was saying 4 years ago as well?

[bicentennial_baby]

31. Correct!

:)

[sniffa]

32. But, will you take your smoking hot husband with you?

That's what really counts.

[Blue-Jay]

39. Scotland makes you quarantine animals and Real Dolls for six months.

Trust me, I asked.

[sniffa]

41. Good thing I'm moving to Great Britain then

I'll avoid their fascist laws.

Oh, and their annoying accents.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

53. Real Dolls

:hide:

[JVS]

33. Europe doesn't exactly invite people to drop on in.

[Pierre.Suave]

36. There are ways

Still.

[jeff30997]

40. I've heard that...

You can get over-there clandestinely in a safe way if you cross the Rio Grande by night. :)

[YellowRubberDuckie]

34. I want to live in the English Country Side.

I really wish I could move there and raise Dachshunds. :evilgrin:
Duckie

[WinkyDink]

76. So do the English. Cost of housing, though, is astronomical.

[Ptah]

35. What will be the penalty from the people that are funding your education.

Did you make a commitment or not?

[Pierre.Suave]

37. yes I did

I would need to pay them some money.

[Ptah]

55. Semper Fi?

Always:
at all times

Faithful:
firm in adherence to promises or in observance of duty

[Pierre.Suave]

56. yes, you have a very good point as always Ptah

but at what point is my duty to myself and my Family to be greater than my duty to a failed country, a country that reneged in its honorable and noble beginnings? Where the constitution guaranteeing freedom for all has been torn up and replaced with a corporate dictatorship, and we are just the pawns?

I swore an oath TWICE to protect and defend the constitution, once with a gun and once with a scalpel. Now, I don't think either of those times I was protecting a country as much as someones corporate interests.

I wanted to believe that it was for good and honorable intentions, but if McCain wins, that dream, that idealism is gone. At that point the Facade is gone and the truth will be bare for everyone to see.

Welcome to the Corporatocracy/Dictatorship. Turn in your rights over at the table on the left. Please remain quietly in line and wait until you are called, speak up, and no one will ever hear from you again.

At that point there are two choices, pick up a rifle, or leave. Which of those two choices is my duty at that point? Some could say the rifle, to put my actions where my words are, to get out there and protect and defend the constitution with more than words and rhetoric, or maybe to stay here and sew back together those that do. My Fiancee thinks it is to her, and her safety. If I was alone, I would not hesitate to stay here and fight for what I believe in. Honestly, I dont think there are any external threats to our democracy that even come close to the threat form our own government.

But, I can not only think about myself anymore.

[Ptah]

60. First, if you jump ship now,we don't want you back.

You swore an oath twice, and are eager to buy your way out.
You seem to be saying you oath is ephemeral, subject to the winds of the day.

You say: "Welcome to the Corporatocracy/Dictatorship."

what's new?

you also say: "At that point there are two choices, pick up a rifle, or leave."

Who you gonna shoot?

I'm starting to think it would be better if you do leave.

:bye bye:

[Pierre.Suave]

62. SO, is this how you feel about those that refuse to go fight in Iraq too?

what has changed is my understanding.

Who am I going to shoot, if McCain wins there will be only one way to get democracy back, and it wont be by voting.

also, the first time I swore into the Marine Corps, I did absolutely nothing to get out of that and served honorably until I had my wreck, which if I had not had, I would no doubt be in Iraq right now.

tell me what would still be worth fighting for if McCain wins? What in this country, within its borders would be worth fighting for?

also eager is the wrong word. I WANT to do this, I want to do it because I believe in the IDEALS this country is supposed to stand for. That piece of paper that to some in the current admin is so quaint means something to me, THAT is worth fighting for. tell me, how much of that will be left in a McCain administration?

[Ptah]

64. My mistake.

I thought you wanted to be a doctor.

[Pierre.Suave]

85. yes

I can also become a doctor in Europe.

[DS1]

82. once with a gun and once with a scalpel

I didn't know you were also a Ninja. Cool!

[PeaceNikki]

86. .

:rofl:

[Pierre.Suave]

91. this is probably the stupidest thing

you have ever said.

[PeaceNikki]

95. I found it hilariously unstupid.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

97. ...

:rofl:

[Name removed]

87. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEyHEY]

94. Hold up. You think your choices are to hole up in a belltower or go to Prague?

Dude, it ain't that bad yet.

[Pierre.Suave]

98. I think it is

If McCain wins this election, it means our elections are rigged and we will never get our country back by voting or by peaceful means. We will have to TAKE it back.

[jeff30997]

38. Why would I do that ?

Oh,yeah,I forgot that we have Harper the Chimp-Wannabe over here.And he's leading in the polls. :(

[HEyHEY]

96. flash in the pan - even if he wins this election

As soon as the libs get a strong leader he's out.

[Aristus]

42. I am.

But my wife is not. So here I stay...

[PeaceNikki]

43. Nope. I am not that easily defeated.

I will stay and fight for my country.

:patriot:

[azmouse]

52. I'm staying and fighting too.

:hi: :patriot:

[pitohui]

44. i don't have the choice

because of my age it can't happen but younger family members have already done so and i think they are smart

you're on your own means you're on your own, you don't own these dirtbags anything

[FloridaJudy]

51. Nor do I

I actually tried it back in '04 after the election, but I was too old then for Canada to accept me, and I'm four years older now. If McCain wins, I will definitely encourage my son to head north. This country can't survive another four years of Republican rule, and if McCain croaks - not unexpected at his age and with his medical history - Palin will make Ivan the Terrible and Caligula look like Gandhi. At least Ivan and Little Boots started out as enlightened rulers, before the power went to their heads. Palin doesn't even have that going for her.

In the meantime, I'm going to do my damnedest to help Obama get elected.

[datasuspect]

45. leave while you can

don't take it for granted that you will always be free to exit the united states.

[madrchsod]

46. i`d like to go to sweden

so i could meet my relatives and drive old saabs and volvos.

[mnhtnbb]

47. My dentist wants to move to Switzerland. He says if McCain wins, he's gone.

[mnhtnbb]

48. Hubby and I have chosen Panama--where we already have permanent resident visas.

[Skittles]

49. I won't let these neocon bastards run me out of my own country

not now, not EVER - I will always stay and fight

[XemaSab]

50. Are you offering?

;)

[Initech]

54. If McCain wins, I'm outta here.

[sakabatou]

57. I can't

I don't really have anything.

[Connonym]

58. No place is going to be safe if we go to war with Russia AND Iran

I seriously think they WANT WW3

[Pierre.Suave]

59. sadly, you may be right

What I really want to do is just sail off around the world and come back when we get it figured out again...

[mwooldri]

63. Who wants a European Union passport?

There are two ways I could legitimatally get you one.

1) If you're under 16, I can adopt you. That's probably the easiest, and if you're near my son's age he'd love having a brother or sister.

2) Marriage (doesn't matter which sex, both will work in UK). But it's more complicated - I have to have means of supporting you in UK (I don't right now) and not live in social housing (aka a council house). That'll get you residency; 2 years later you can naturalise.

In reality, only option 1 is open, since I'm married, and I love my wife to bits, and I REALLY take that "til death do us part" seriously (she can leave me if she wants but I'll never remarry - period, sorry part of my religious/personal beliefs/values).

Sometimes I wish I could do a passport swap: your US one for my UK one, especially for people who have healthcare situations and can't pay for them.

Mark.

[supernova]

73. You're a sweetie!

:D

We should plan a DU meetup sometime. :-)

[mwooldri]

78. Thankyou.

A DU meetup sounds like fun - but after the craziness of the electioneering... really hoping that it's time to celebrate... but if not... well let's hoping not.

Mark.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

102. Ever thought of setting up a matchmaking service?

I don't mean fake marriages, I mean introducing disgruntled single Americans to Europeans of their preferred age and gender? No marriages would take place unless the two parties actually loved each other for the usual reasons.

:evilgrin:

Anyway, in past lives, I had opportunities to emigrate to Japan, Norway, and Australia, and I could kick myself across two oceans now for not taking those opportunities when I had the chance. Mostly I refused these opportunities because I thought, "What a hassle." Boy, was I stupid! Now at my age, I'm no longer considered a desirable immigrant. I could get into some European countries if I had a huge pile of money and could support myself, but that doesn't seem likely to happen.

As for you, Jason, you're still young, so you could do a little research and find out which countries have some sort of a
"skilled immigrants'" program for medical personnel.

[Doctor Cynic]

65. If you can handle the expensive Euro, then sure.

[samuraiguppy]

66. I'm willing to go--

but I don't know if they want me. Some of the imigration requirements are steep...

[JCMach1]

67. The economy is about to hit the wall there as well...

[elshiva]

71. I'm staying, I have no other choice.

I don't have the money or the resources to move anywhere, much less to another country.

[supernova]

72. I would love to move to the UK or France

Perhaps Germany too.

Spain seems really nice, too.

Oh heck, if McC&P get elected, I'd be ready to be anywhere but here.

Note to our Canada: I love you, but you're too cold! :x

[WinkyDink]

74. My husband would go today. Alsace.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

77. Moved here in 2006! And Love it!

I miss Minnesota though! *sniff* (I lived there for 25 years!)

[alarimer]

79. If McCain wins there is certainly no point in staying.

I am currently looking for a better job so it might as well be in some other country. Fuck this one if its people are stupid enough to elect McCain. They deserve what they get.

[wickerwoman]

80. B'ah! I'm moving to New Zealand next month.

I left the US five years ago. Best decision I ever made. I'm still registered to vote though... if my absentee ballot ever comes through.

[BeachBaby]

81. New Zealand is on my short list.

How much time have you spent there? What's your personal description of it?

[wickerwoman]

83. I spent a month last year and a month this year

Last year I drove from Auckland to Wellington and then Christchurch to Queenstown and Dunedin. This year I spent two weeks in Auckland and two weeks in Wellington. I'm probably going to move to Auckland since that's where most of my job interviews are at the moment. It's not my favorite city in NZ, but it will certainly do.

I think New Zealand is the greatest country on earth. Everywhere you go you're either right on the beach or in the mountains. Most kiwis consider easy public beach access to be a birthright. Almost everyone has a national park in their backyard. It's never too hot or cold... always between the 50s and 70s and the weather is a lot like Englands... sudden rain showers but then sunny for the rest of the day. It's fine for me since I grew up in Seattle. People are extremely eco-conscious but also go way out of their way to make accomodations for the elderly and disabled.

They have a very liberal political system. The prime minister is a woman and is on her third or fourth term, I think. They are a 100% non-nuclear country refusing to develop nuclear power as well as nuclear weapons. Almost all of their energy is geothermal and hydroelectric and I think most of their food qualifies as organic in the rest of the world. They have free universal health care and mandatory four weeks of vacation a year (they define full-time work as 30 hours a week).

They're in a bit of a recession at the moment but it shouldn't affect what I do. Salaries aren't very high. I'm taking a pay cut for a job with comparable responsibilities and the cost of living is much higher than what I'm used to because so much of the food is either imported or raised with strict standards. But... I don't really care about the money. Hiking is free. I love the slow pace of life. Everything is friendly and informal. And you really get the sense that everybody is looking out for everybody else.

In a nutshell, imagine a small island country where fat, sheep obsessed sci-fi geeks have used touchy feely politics to create a truly egalitarian society where everyone stops and eats first-rate baked goods with tea every two hours.

[mnhtnbb]

101. We went to look at NZ in 1994--but got there a few days after

a South African (white) took the job hubby wanted in Christchurch. We didn't like Auckland,
so cut the trip short and gave up on the NZ idea. Now we're too old (they don't want retirees).

Good luck to you!

[TZ]

109. You move to NZ, and I'll move to Sydney...

We will be neighbors down under!:D

[otherlander]

84. Maybe when I'm older I'll move to the Ukraine.

But not any time soon.

[IndianaJones]

88. don't lose your fiance. nt.

[bikebloke]

89. I was ready 30 years ago.

After my first trip to Europe when the airfares dropped in the hundred dollar range. The values meshed with mine (I'm a social democrat). Unfortunately, it's easier said than done. I certainly tried. Marriage offers were from women I was wise to avoid. That's the easiest way in. I spent 4 years working in Israel. But in the end I realized that not being Jewish (nor xtian, nor Muslim)I'd always be an outsider. So I guess I'm stuck for the big finale.

[MrScorpio]

90. AMSTERDAM!!!

Let's go!

[Blue_Tires]

93. need money to do that

and a job once i get over there...

[Dukkha]

99. trapped here due to children obligation

wife's kids from 1st marriage, otherwie i'd leave in a heartbeat if I had the means.

For those stuck behind enemy lines all I have to say is get some guns while you still can. The forced theocracy is just the beginning.

[Help_I_Live_In_Idaho]

100. I want out of this corporate military industrial shithole...

.. so bad I can taste it. But I'm to old for New Zealand. How about Belize or Costa Rica

[LanternWaste]

103. Regardless of who wins...

Regardless of who wins, if had I the money for it, I'd be there anyways. A little tavern/bookstore owner somewhere in Wales, living in the garret and quashing any jones I'd have for America by a quick trip to the local McDonald's a few times a year...

[fed_up_mother]

104. It's a lot harder to get in most of those countries than you think

First rule of socialism - no open borders or it doesn't work.

We lived and worked in Europe for a year, but my hubby was contracting with a European country with highly specialized experience. I would have begged, borrowed, or stolen papers if I thought we could get residence, but we couldn't. sigh When the assignment was up, we had to come back to the U.S.

[pitohui]

105. can't afford it

but good luck to you if you can

[minnesota_liberal]

106. No, but have thought about Canada more lately

Knowing another language besides english would give more options.

[falcon97]

107. Does this involve changing citizenship?

I can't seem to come down on one side or the other. I can see pros and cons of moving but remaining an American, and moving to become a full citizen of a country TBD.

[PeaceNikki]

108. I'm sure you'll be a big hit in Europe! Enjoy!

:party:

[Orsino]

110. I'm planning on Canadia, myself.

Wanna be one of those Canadians.

A McCain "victory" will just add urgency.

[Zuiderelle]

111. If this economy crashes, Europe will not be very nice either.

Sounds like you've got a pretty good deal here though. Would the navy pay for your education in Europe? Don't you have to stay here?

[progressoid]

112. Canada maybe?

I've thought about it.

[fudge stripe cookays]

115. That's where we're headed.

reprehensor is from Alberta. We've already checked with our brother and sister-in-law to see if we can pull up a basement for awhile. I have MS. We HAVE to keep medical coverage. If I lose another job, we're screwed.

We've been talking about it for 7 years but were doing OK financially, and didn't know if we could afford it there since it's booming so much now with the oil sands development. And at first we were worried about selling our house. We DID manage to sell in December for a small profit (believe it or not. Thanks HGTV!)

Our lease expires next April. We're going to be watching in November very carefully. After that if McCain steals, we'll be selling LOTS of our stuff and heading north. When even our politically unaware sister-in-law in Alberta knows that McCain is the next coming of the anti-Christ, that's saying a LOT.

[montanto]

113. I'm with you. My greatest fear is a McCain win

because it would prove that as a nation we really are those people.

[old mark]

114. Thank you, no.

My father came from there nearly 85 years ago.
It sucks over there, too, but in different ways.


mark