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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:51 PM
Original message
My review of The Passion of The Christ
First, I feel like I should reveal my biases for some reason.
I am an atheist. I am completely undecided as to whether Christ ever lived or not.

I do however find the story of the Christ interesting in an intellectual and emotional way.

I liked very much "The Last Temptation of Christ" and will compare it with "The Passion of the Christ" more than once.

I'll start with examining the claims of racism that have been made.
My understanding of the Christ is that he takes the sin from ALL men. So it is fair to ask if any particular group is portrayed as "worse".

Certain High Jewish Priests were portrayed as very evil. Wanting to slay the Messiah to protect their own power. However, it was made very clear that it wasn't all the Jewish people or even all the Jewish High Priests. Some stood and spoke reason to the crowd and were pushed out by the extreme people. It is also made clear(later) that this was a middle of the night secret meeting and not all of the council was even present. Again confirming that this is but one "sect" if you will. Jesus is helped and comforted along the way by individual Jews.

The Romans are portrayed in a different way but I'm not sure it really is a lighter treatment. Their crime, their sin, is just not giving a crap basically. Its just a bureaucratic decision that Pontius Pilate makes with his own ass in mind. The Roman soldiers are portrayed as sadists who delight in the torture of the Christ , especially once he shows his unwillingness to be broken.

The soldiers certainly aren't being portrayed as simply doing the will of the Jewish mob. They love it. The administrators may seem "less evil" but are they really? To kill the son of God(or any man), an innocent man, as a bureaucratic decision to quell a segment of the masses. Pilate is certainly treated lightest of all but in Herod we do see some of the sin of gluttony rampant in the empire.

There are some counter points.
Like why have Pilate's wife be an advocate for Jesus? There was no need to add that in. Is he giving the Romans a pass here? I don't know why he did it but I don't feel it hurt a balanced treatment all that much.
I felt Gibson put a special emphasis on when Jesus tells Pilate (paraphrased sorry) "you only have the power God has seen fit to give you". Is this maybe Gibson's love of country showing through here. That his glorious empire is ordained by God as well? I think it is more likely that then anti-Semitics showing through.
One really cheesy part is the cut to the "evil high priest" at the end as the earthquake happens and the temple is destroyed. He has this "Oh shit he was for real" look on his face. Only problem is... there are still Jews today. So, to suggest that the Jews that didn't believe, all got their comeuppance, so to speak, and realized they were wrong is , I would imagine, somewhat insulting to Jewish people. But I can't say for sure not being Jewish. I found it cheesy though that is for sure. I mark it up to a combination of "Hollywood movie" pressures and some Gibson self-righteousness thrown in.

All in all I found the claims of racism unfounded. I see nothing wrong with portraying certain powerful members of a religion as out for their own power and wealth. And that they might get SOME of their people behind them.

To move on... I have to say, I am a big pushover for cheap emotional ploys in movies but this movie didn't do much for me in that area. Yes, I cringed and jumped in my seat probably 10 times at some over-the-top brutality that was on the screen but it never led to tearing up. The onslaught of torture was really too traumatic and very in your face to focus on any meaning much. In comparison there were a few parts in The Last Temptation where I was brought to tears and really felt connected with the Jesus portrayed.

Largely because of the violent aspect, I felt that none of the message of Christ gets through. There are flashback sequences but the majority of them deal with Jesus making predictions about his betrayal , arrest and death. His message of love is a minor afterthought relegated to a few short sequences.

The Last Temptation was much more successful in this aspect. Though it wasn't even based on the Gospels it included many scenes that gave much more complete picture of Jesus and his message. It did this and still was able to later portray the brutality of his death. And was orders of magnitude more successful in portraying Christ's struggle on the cross.

After all the torture Gibson subjected us to I wish he had done that part better. His treatment of Christ on the cross was disjointed and anti-climactic. Christ begs the Father to forgives us all, tells the crook to his left that he will lift him up to his kingdom. Then the next instant he is asking why he is forsaken which is immediately followed by "it is accomplished". I mean come on where is some dramatic tension? There is barely a hint of internal struggle on the Christ's face. And very little sense of triumph as he overcomes at last.

I don't mean to say it was a total failure. I just feel that Scorsese captured the purported meaning of it all much better. In his shot of Christ on the cross Scorsese captures the sense of intense physical pain, intense emotional pain at feeling abandoned by God, and his struggles to come to triumph over his sins and the sins of man. His struggle between his own individualism and his role as savior. Gibson's Christ not so much triumphs as it feel like he just gives up. His delivery of the words and the images fail to capture that at all. We are left with the feeling of a thoroughly beat Christ finally letting go.

Of course he tries to make up for this with special effects like earthquakes and crumbling temples (not to mention converted High Priests :eyes:) and a rock being rolled away and Christ stepping out of the hole. But, he should have taken the time to capture the triumph on the cross.

One final thing I want to bring up is the flashback that has Jesus as the inventor of modern table and chair dining room sets? What the heck was that supposed to be about?

Over all, if The Last Temptation had never been made I might give this film a 3 out of 5 for being of a high technical quality. With something to compare it to the best I can stomach giving it is a 2.

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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. "So, to suggest that the Jews that didn't believe...
...all got their comeuppance, so to speak, and realized they were wrong is , I would imagine, somewhat insulting to Jewish people."

Somewhat, indeed, considering the Inquisition, the progroms, the Holocaust, etc.
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. This was a very subtle thing.
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 07:06 PM by einniv
I don't mean to give the impression that he comes right out and says it. Or that the High Priest starts running around hollering he is a believer. That is just my interpretation and one I felt might be missed by some.
I should add though , that he shows at least one of the 2 administrators with a similar look on their face.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. right -- it wasn't to knock you, or your thoughtful review...
My point is, from everything I've read about the film, it revives the old rap that the Jews "blew it" by not believing in Christ (who didn't, by the way, fulfill any of the criteria of the alleged-to-be-coming Messiah) and therefore "deserved" all that followed in the centuries afterwards...

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Kamika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great review
Thanks :D
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for that
I'm also an athiest, but very much interested in seeing the movie when it opens in England for the same reasons you cite. I can also predict the shadow of "Last Temptation" falling over any thoughts I have towards Gibson's film. But thanks again for a great review.
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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. This statement
<Like why have Pilate's wife be an advocate for Jesus>

In the New Testament, I think that there is an indication that Pilate’s wife had a dream about Jesus Christ and what was about to be done to Him and she sent a note to Pilate warning him about it.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. I found your review interesting, readable, sincere and very well-written
As a Christian who has not yet seen the movie, thank you for your objectivity. Your description intrigues me and makes me a little more likely to go. I, too, revere Scorsese's "Last Temptation" as an excellent movie and would have been surprised had Gibson bested him.

Thanks and :thumbsup:
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a_random_joel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Last Temptation was brilliant
I was willing to give The Passion a fair hearing, but based on your review, I think I'll just watch Last Temptation again.
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waterman Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Man, that was pretty good. i enjoyed reading it from an average person
(if in fact you are one) much more than a celeb type reviewer. Your take was heartfelt and honest and direct. Thanks for taking the time to do this. That helped me get a better grip on all this hype. Yours is the first to do this. Appreciate it greatly.
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waterman Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. But, P.S..... wouldn't you be more of an agnostic than an atheist if you
were undecided about whether Christ ever lived or not. Just playing with semantics here (not anti-semantics).
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Lol . Not really.
I think lived, taught and even was crucified is a distinct possibility. And not an unlikely or remote one.
I just don't beleive he or anyone else has ever risen from the dead in any physical sense.
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waterman Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. k, thanks
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Whitacre D_WI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Pilate's wife was mentioned in the Gospels.
The whole "dream" thing.

This film makes the Romans seem less culpable because the Gospels make the Romans seem less culpable. Remember that Rome was on the cusp of launching persecutions that would kill untold numbers of Christians as the Gospels were being written -- so, the authors of the Gospels kissed a lot of Roman ass in order to save their own asses.

The fact about Pilate is that he was a butcher. He executed thousands of people, many of whom were innocent. He was a bloodthirsty, savage fucker.

I haven't seen the movie, so I can't comment yet on accusations of anti-semetism. I can say, though, that the Gospels do tend to emphasize the culpability of the high priests over that of the Romans, simply because they were a safer target.
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Right and the Romans wiped out (burned) writings of the earliest
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 07:21 PM by einniv
of the Christians so we really don't know how much they changed to their liking.

I think , at least partially, considering the Romans less culpable is a matter of (wrong) interpretation. Is the sin of indifference to justice and allowing evil to cover your own butt any less of a sin? Don't we see that sin all the time in our own government?
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. To throw Gibson a one bone...
I felt that the part where Jesus repeatedly begs the father for the forgivness of his killers was one spot that was more powerful in this film than in Last Temptation. Partly it is because he repeats it more than once.
It is also perhaps the one part where the extremely violence actually added to the meaning.

That is really my primary complaint. The depiction of the violence really did nothing to advance the story. It is so over the top that in fact hurts the message. Christ is not depicted dbeing killed for the "ordinary everyday" sins of every man. But some over the top , completely unique orgy of evil. Which explains why Satan is often seen wandering the crowd in this film. An aspect I didn't even touch on
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. A kick...
:kick:

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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick
Deserves a chance to be read...
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. You might considering posting this
here as well. You'll have to register, and yes Athiests are welcome.

http://www.christianforums.com/t97375
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I'm not sure if I should.
They seem to like it a lot and some are thrilled.
I don't care to rain on their parade lol.

I saw you were logged in there though. You could link to this thread if you want :)

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Nah, we'd wind up with all the Freepers signing on
which would make extra work for the Mods.

Seriously, you are entitled to your opinion and your beliefs. There are lots of different believers and nonbelievers at that site. (Though it's nice of you to not want to rain on their parade. *g*)
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Ok I posted it.
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 10:39 PM by einniv
Getting out my raincoat in case someone brought tomatoes hehe :)
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. Interesting, thanks.
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. Casting of good vs. bad Jews
It seemed to me that the bad Jews closely matched the drawings of "evil Jews" from Nazi propaganda, while Jesus, his family, and other good Jews had delicate facial features resembling northern Europeans.

I have to say I think it's racist, or at least an unconscious prejudice.
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. My husband said exactly the same
about the facial features and stereotyping. He found that to be the worst thing---he claimed the anti-semitism was subtle within the film especially to those reading the New Testament regularly (its the Gospels Gibson used) but he noted that the "bad" Jews looked like anti-semitic stereotypes while "Jesus and Company were fine European stock!"

He felt that was more insidious than any of the script.
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einniv Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Not trying to be contrary...
I shouldn't totally dismiss bias but yes, it is subtle if it is there.

Still I thought the woman who wipes his face was kinda cute. I think she was jewish right? And the guy that carried the cross would be considered a handsom guy I think right? There was no indication that , at least the cross bearer, was a follower. I remember that the priests certainly fit that sterotype though now that it has been mentioned.

So I am still not clear.
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. he said the "definite bad guys"
meaning the priests like Caiaphas (sp?) in the temple were semitic looking in the stereotypical sense while Jesus and Mary looked "Anglo" (we are in the SW so that is really "European")

It was something that he noticed being extremely attuned to images vs. verbal or textual things.

But, he's asleep and I didn't see it so that's all I know of that.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. NT
just checking something
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