so, what did you give up for lent?

[KCDem]

I'm not Catholic, but I dig their idea of giving something up for awhile. For me, it's not a religious thing: it's more of a test--a shortened new years resolution, if you will.

I'm either giving up wine or alcohol in general. I drink mostly wine, so if I cut that out, I'd still be doing something good.

Anyone else giving something up?

[KCDem]

1. damnit, there's already a thread.

Sorry, feel free to ignore.

[VOX]

2. Mel Gibson's movie.

:evilgrin:

[mouse7]

3. Lent.

eom

[TrogL]

4. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x805159

[TlalocW]

5. Molesting little boys

Of course I don't do that to begin with, but I like to lead by example for the Catholic clergy.

TlalocW

[Richardo]

10. You're a jerk

[TlalocW]

11. And a wanker

And someone who has a big problem with a religion whose leadership is essentially doing nothing but trying to cover up their crimes instead of bouncing the clergy who do this out and into jail.

TlalocW

[Richardo]

17. So smear every clergyman - how enlightened.

Do you say the same things about all those Arabs? They're all terrorists, you know.

And what about those drunken Irish?

Direct your hate at the appropriate target.

[TlalocW]

20. Every clergyman that is either

Not doing anything about it, actually doing it, or supporting the Catholic hierarchy in hiding the problem, hiding the church's assets to keep them from being rewarded in lawsuits, or thinks that sending the offending party to a new parish is the answer.

I think my ire (call me hateful all you want) is directed to the right party as I've outlined.

TlalocW

[Xithras]

19. That's not the churches job

Many non-Catholics don't seem to get this (heck, many Catholics don't get this): Under Biblical doctrine, you are NOT supposed to cast out sinners and evil people, you are supposed to try to help save them and turn them away from their ways. While child molesters are an evil bunch, the job of the church is to counsel those who do evil things and to try and save their souls...which means that they cannot throw them out of the church and into jail.

I have serious problems with some of the obstructionism practiced by the church when the investigations started, and am upset that they didn't work harder to ensure that these priests were kept away from children (there were many places the church could have sent them where they would have been isolated from the public), but to chastise them for doing their sworn duty to God seems a bit much.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Freeper Christians tend to forget that part...real Christians don't.

[SOteric]

21. Well stated.

I've tried to explain that once or twice lately myself.

[TlalocW]

23. Freeper Vs. Real Christian aside

Realists tend to understand that there is a role for prisons in society and sending child molesters there tends to be a good thing no matter how much the church would like to pretend the situation doesn't exist.

TlalocW

[Xithras]

32. Maybe, maybe not

Here's the thing: If a person commits a heinous crime like molesting a child, the church has two choices; rehabilitate or incarcerate. The church, as an institution of God, knows no allegiences to the laws or justice systems instituted by men. The role of the church is to get the sinner to repent his sins, be forgiven, and then accept the consequences of their actions.

The goal of the church isn't to turn in criminals, but to convince criminals that they need to turn themselves in. The church itself should always act as a neutral party when it comes to government punishment.

[TlalocW]

36. Good. Next time I commit a crime

And the church knows that I've committed a crime, I'll make sure that beforehand I've declared myself a member of their religion and hide behind them.

Of course I'm being a sarcastic SOB, but I agree with you about the role of the church in the first place, but guess what? The Catholic Church didn't really do that - they lied, hid evidence, shuffled the offending parties around (maybe they talked with them to repent - who knows?), and hid their assets to keep them from being rewarded in lawsuits.

Am I being hard on them? Damn betcha. I'm just as disgusted with other churches and "churches" that practice faith healing (which is baloney). People have died because some loud mouthed preacher in a shiny suit has told them that God just cured their diabetes, and they can stop taking their insulin but hey, make a donation real quick so we can help others. Those bastards deserve to be in jail, and so do the clergy that molest kids, and if other members of the hierarchy of the church doen't speak out against it, work to try and hide it, or otherwise ignore the problem then they give up their so-called moral high ground and are worthy of contempt.

Are all churches like this? No. But when a church allows crap like this to happen and doesn't take any kind of positive action, screw 'em.

TlalocW

[SOteric]

41. Agreed in part, Xithras, but with a notable exception:

You've stated that the church "knows no allegainces to the laws of justice systems instituted by men." And while I understand the concept you are trying to convey, most folks here will be sufficiently adversarial to the Roman church that they will not attempt to seek your meaning.

The church does owe some allegiance to the laws of man, however unclear that directive may be. With Christs' saying "give to Caesar that which is Caesar's and give to God that which is God's," he gave implied direction that we could not shuffle off the laws of a nation by claiming ourselves one of his.

The spirit of that direction is easier to sort than the letter.

[Armand]

50. As a Christian...I say incarcerate those molesting bastards.

Anyone with power and trust in people who do this kind of shit deserve to be in prison. :grr:

[Az]

39. You are also supposed to abide by the local laws

Like Nixon the Catholic church is suffering not because of the crime. It is the cover up that followed that is causing them to gain the attention of the media and the public. The initial crimes were the acts of individuals with very real problems. The fact that the Church covered their actions up and moved them around to new communities is where the outrage is coming from.

It is unfortunate that the entirety of the Catholic faith has been tarnished by this matter. But it is not the first time organised structures were tainted by the actions of a few of its members.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

46. This is true, however, the role of Clergy has evolved into

one with quite a bit of unsupervised time alone with children and young adults teaching them the ways of the Lord.

With this responsibility, anyone who is suspect should be identified by church higher-ups and removed from such a possible situation. There is no excuse to leave them there, cover it up, or transfer them somewhere else without notifying the new employer.

That is the truly Christian thing to do. Lead by example. Do not create more hate and discontent by ignoring the victims, or spreading false rumors about them.

All of these things have happened in the Catholic Church, not just in the past few years, but since the Reformation. Inappropriate sexual relations was one of the things about which Martin Luther revolted against Rome.

Personally, I think it is time to allow Priests to marry, ordain women again and lighten up on the brimstone part.

[DemBones DemBones]

52. A fine explanation, and much appreciated.

You are a DU Lurker Extraordinaire !

:yourock:

[youngred]

33. What about the comparable number of molestation

by protestant clergy or Jewish rabbi's? Why is there no comprable media fuss about that?

[TlalocW]

43. What about it?

Throw them in jail too. Why would you imply that I would want them treated differently?

TlalocW

[youngred]

44. by the fact that you would single Catholic's out

on a thread not about Catholicsm

[TlalocW]

45. Uh... Hello? LENT?

You know... Lent? Lent, Lent, Lent, Lent, Lent? I'll take Catholic observations for $1000 Alex. Catholics give up something they enjoy for THIS observation. BZZZT. TlalocW? WHAT IS LENT, ALEX?

TlalocW

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

49. A time of contemplation for CHRISTIANS.... not just Catholics

[TlalocW]

63. In my experience...

I've never heard of anyone giving up anything for Lent other than Catholics - normally meat on Fridays, which is why the public schools I went to offered the Catholic kids fish on Fridays.

TlalocW

[youngred]

66. This thread wasn't about Catholic's though

It was about what people were giving up for lent. It had nothing at all to do with the abuse scandals, the church as institution. In fact the person who started the thread isn't even Catholic.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

47. Because those religions DO NOT hide the truth, they cooperate

with investigations.

[DemBones DemBones]

56. Actually, they HAVE engaged in cover-ups -- both

Jews and Protestants, plus Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Not to mention secular employers who try to protect their company from embarrassment in such cases.

Besides, the other side of protecting the possibly innocent is to stage witch hunts and fire anyone ever accused of impropriety.

When I taught public school (high school), two men I worked with were accused of improper conduct with students and subsequently fired, though no police reports or lawsuits were ever filed. (These were separate incidents; I think one man, a teacher nearing retirement, was already gone before the other man was hired.) Anyway, I had, and still have, serious doubts about the truth of these accusations.

Even as a woman, I feel much safer not teaching and putting myself in a position where two students can cook up a story and ruin your career and life. Just this week, three middle school girls admitted they made the whole thing up, after a homeless man spent eight months in jail.

Everybody wants child molesters stopped (well, everybody except child molesters, anyway.) But we need to avoid punishing the innocent, too.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

58. Links? Cause I have seen it quoted that cover-ups have NOT

happened in Jewish and Protestant cases.

[youngred]

31. this was necessary because why?

:eyes:

[TXlib]

6. Crap, if KCDem's giving up alcohol, then...

I guess I'm giving up sex.

:grr:

[markus]

7. Abstinence

I thought about giving up Catholicism, especially if the entire gay marriage/excommunicate over abortion thing blows up this year, but it's pretty difficult to get excommunicated even if one wants to be.

[Fenris]

13. Hitler tried

He and Goebbels both tried to get themselves excommunicated in the 1920s by serving at the wedding of a protestant aquaintance, which technically would have worked, except it turned out the Vatican had no idea who Hitler and Goebbels were.

[Tripper11]

8. Catholicism.....

about 20 years ago! Badoom bah! :evilgrin:

[a_random_joel]

9. I give up...

giving up things.

[PDittie]

12. I'm giving up denial

specifically, denying myself that which pleases me.

Either that, or ashes on my forehead. One or the other.

[Rockholm]

14. CNN

[jeffsurfus]

15. Root canals, enemas, and figs

It's a UU thing.

[SOteric]

16. Catholic person weighing in....

The season of Lent, the spirit of Lent is not one of simple sacrifice. It's about examining your life for excesses. It's about assessing the fundamentals of who we are and seeing ourselves under the trappings, the emotional baggage we build around our hearts, our identities, our lives.

Much like annual resolutions, I don't tend to select one thing to sacrifice for the 40 days of Lent. Instead I make a fearless inventory of my emotional baggage and try to select one thing that is no longer working for me. The period of Lent I use to adjust myself to it's loss, and examine all the roles it's played in my life. It's kind of a gradual, conscious letting go.

For example; I'm still clinging to a sense of anger, hurt and betrayal over something my eldest brother did a few years ago. Those responses are causing some complexity in my life. Unfortunately I recognise that I'm not ready to let go of them as much as I may need to. So, while I considered it for this year's Lenten season it was not ultimately my choice.

The choice I have made is one I will keep private, - at least for now. It's between me and my priest. If I feel ready to discuss it at Easter, I may share it with you all then.

[GOPisEvil]

22. I always thought of lent as a way to give up the things that hold you back

Whether that is old memories, unproductive thoughts, etc.

As for me, I am going to volunteer my time more. Heading to the ACLU tonight. Stuffing envelopes about BBV. :-)

[VelmaD]

26. I love holy days that make people think...

always liked Lent and Ramadan and Yom Kippur for exactly the reasons you outlined. Though I am not Catholic I can certainly appreciate the idea of letting go of some personal baggage. Looks like it may be time to sit down and do some more serious thinking. :)

[Richardo]

64. Kudos, SOteric...

Well stated and incidentally, the way I approach the season - an opportunity to improve self or community. :thumbsup:

[Fenris]

18. Meat

I've eaten an awful lot of meat over the past few months, as I have little hope of eating anything healthy. I want to eat more whole grains, like I did before I came to college, and salad as well. It's not that I'm a vegetarian, it's just that I think meat is unhealthy for me, especially with the awful digestive system I inherited from my grandfather, although my God it tastes good.

:hi:Just wanted to add a serious reply to your post, KCDem, as most seem sarcastic.

[KCDem]

25. thanks, Fenris!

Good luck with your goal. I gave up meat in college many moons ago. I eventually added fish and poultry back into my diet, however.

[Fenris]

42. Naturally. Many of my older vegetarian friends eat fish and poultry.

They did it out of necessity. Unfortunately, they also got fatter. I think they remembered what meat tasted like and gorged themselves. :)

[PVnRT]

24. I gave up giving things up.

n/t

[Xithras]

27. Money

Seriously. My wife and I bring home about $5500 a month combined, and this month our plan is to pay our bills take $50 each out of whatever is left (typically about $2200), and donate the rest to a local homeless charity.

The purpose of Lent is to remind us that our material things don't really matter. Giving up shopping, dining out, and day-trips for a month does just that.

[KCDem]

29. wow... that's really cool!

Good luck with it.

Oh, and I like your sig. ;)

[Xithras]

35. If we can stick with it...

We may end up increasing from the $50 (essentially gas money for our cars) a little to cover any unplanned incidentals, but the goal is to live like we didn't have it. If nothing else, the shelter will appreciate the $2000 donation.

I even ran my visa platinum card though the shredder yesterday to keep myself from cheating :)

[DemBones DemBones]

62. He and his wife have got the real Lenten spirit,

giving up something you normally enjoy and taking the money you'd usually spend on that or those enjoyments and giving it to the poor.

Not that you "have" to give money, you can give time, too. Someone else mentioned above volunteering at nursing homes.

Lent is a wonderful time to focus on what you can do without and what you can do for others.

[TXDemGal]

28. Church!

That's an old joke, but I still like it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. Buying books

They're out of control. Or rather, I am in that respect.

[youngred]

34. Catholic - Not anything

I like my vices too much. :evilgrin:

[RushIsRot]

37. Moderation

[radfringe]

38. I gave up lent for lent (n/t)

[The Democratic Kid]

40. Drinking beer

Please take the time of lent to visit a nursing home and bring some joy to someones life.. Take this time of lent to help others. and to give up looking the other way when you see a homeless person.Pray for the people in nursing homes so that their pain, suffering, and abuse will end. Thank You. The Democratic Kid, Health care reform Activist.

[Armand]

48. I'm giving up giving things up.

[Liberal Christian]

51. I'm going to try to give up unhealthy eating

I've been turning my eating habits around lately (thanks to my wonderful new JUICER!!!) ... so I'm going to try to stick with this at least through Lent, if not beyond.

[IronLionZion]

53. Haven't decided yet

but probably sweets or snacks or desserts

Do you believe in having what you gave up on Sundays? Because I heard Sundays aren't included and there are more than 40 days between Ash Wednesday (today) and Easter Sunday.

And do you fast on Fridays, because I think that is just ridiculous? Especially when you are around some right-wing Catholics that won't let you eat during the day and the non-Catholics laugh and tease you. bah humbug!

[IronLionZion]

55. Well I guess I gave up church on Ash Wednesday

I totally forgot to go. I guess I'm going to hell.

[DemBones DemBones]

57. Ash Wednesday is not a

holy day of obligation so you're home free! :-)

[mitchum]

54. A clean forehead

nothing, I'm a very lapsed Protestant

[ArwenJade]

59. Not sure

I'm thinking diet coke.

I want to give some money to charity and start praying the rosery, too.

Lot's of anti-catholics here. :(

[GOPisEvil]

65. There are a lot of people with unresolved issues with the Church.

Unfortunately, they tend to take those issues out on those on the board who still practice that faith.

Try to ignore them, and stay clear of debating the issue with them. It will only lead to anger and frustration.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

60. Instead of giving up, I'm taking up...

I'm making time for meditation, as I've sacrificed that time far too much the past few months. I need to get back in touch with my true self...

[ChoralScholar]

61. I'm giving up pointless religious rituals for Lent