People who speak/read Latin--help?

[Lyric]

I'm working on a poem, and I need to know how to translate the following phrase into Latin properly. I don't want to use one of those auto-translators, because they never seem to get it right.

"Even God wept. Even God."

Thanks in advance. :hug: :yourock:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. My dear oktoberain...

My Latin is waaaaaaaay too outdated, too damn old, to be of any use here...

But perhaps my husband could help...

He's napping now...when he gets up, I'll ask him!

Good luck, sweetie!

:hug:

[Redstone]

2. Screw the translation; that's a damn nice turn of phrase in English;

very strong, indeed. Post the rest of the poem, would you? I'm not a big fan of poetry, but that snippet is intriguing.

Redstone

[Lyric]

5. Well it's not done yet--I only have just a little

bit so far--the first two stanzas, or the draft of them anyway. This is going to be a long one when it's done.

No title yet, but the working title is "Five Chimneys".

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

There's a garden of rocks on Shiloh Street that calls
to me each spring, when dusk lays thick in seams
of wine and gold across the evening sky.
The avenue slips smoothly by beneath the knock
of booted feet, under a moon that silvers
my hands and blurs the cracks between me
and the street. A flower still grows
there, a flower survives in this womb
of dead grey stone.

(Even God wept. Even God.)

I move along this midnight walk to meet
the sins of man at the gate, to ease the ache
of old tears that I can’t unweep. Let me open
this old chest, let me break this bitter bread--
a twisted cross, a desert star, the lingering
hollow echoes of a hunted, haunted line.
They pace behind in shades of blue scratched
on skin, and a lie that stalks me
like the smoke of five chimneys.

Arbiet macht frei.
----------------

The Latin at the top says "I'll find a way, or make one", roughly. The German words at the bottom are the words that stood over the entrance to Auschwitz--"Work will make you free", roughly.

Not very good yet, but I'm getting there.

[auntAgonist]

7. amazing work!

I so wish I had the talent for writing that you have.

thank you for sharing this.

:hug:

aA

[Redstone]

23. As I said, I'm not big on poetry...but I LIKE that. I like it a lot.

Keep at it. And yes, I'd know the significance of the "Arbeit macht frie," even if I didn't speak German, which I do.

That phrase is well-quoted on your part, for anyone with any amount of worldview.

Redstone

[Lyric]

25. Thank you Redstone.

It's the time of year, I think, along with my own Jewish roots. Sometimes we seek out the hurtful memories, because the hurt is less dangerous than forgetting. :hug:

[Jamastiene]

3. Vel Deus wept. Vel Deus.

I got it here:
http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=English&to=Latin

[Lyric]

6. Apparently it couldn't find a translation for "wept"

I tried "cried" too, but no luck. This is why I need someone who actually knows the language, argh! lol

Thank you for the help, dearest. :hug:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

9. "Wept" = "flevit," for 3rd person sing. perfect.

:)

[Gormy Cuss]

17. I think a form of lacrimo would be better

or perhaps ploro, which is more intense crying as is fleo.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

18. Eh, perhaps.

I've seen "fleo" used for "weep" in Catullus, I think....it's not a bad word for it. Is "lacrimo" defective?

[Gormy Cuss]

20. It really depends on intensity I think.

I think in order from mildest to strongest it's lacrimo, fleo, then ploro. I struggle to remember most conjugations these days, never mind which verbs are defective. I don't have my college level Latin reference books anymore so I can't even check, LOL.

on edit: that translator doesn't understand 'wept' so I entered 'weeped.' THAT it knew and came back with ploro. I entered "God was crying" and it returned Deum eram fletus.

Online translators are such a hoot.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

21. HAHA.

:rofl::rofl:

Online translators ARE a hoot. :D

[Oeditpus Rex]

4. Found it!

http://arago4.tnw.utwente.nl/stonedead/movies/holy-grail/ra/05-01.ra



:hi:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

8. "flevit" is "wept" in the 3rd perfect singular, I think.

(Even) Deus flevit. (Even) Deus.

I'm not great with all the "little words" of Latin--couldn't tell you what "even" would be. But "God wept" is "Deus flevit."

[Lyric]

10. Thank you!

Unfortunately the translation that Jam found for "even" isn't the meaning I need; "vel" means equal or level--as you can see by examining the word "le-vel", actually.

Gotta find the word that fits with what the meaning of that phrase actually is. On with the search!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

11. Well, "vel" is also a conjunction.

"Vel.....vel" is "either.....or," I think, as a correlative situation. Not "even," but it can be used as a "little word." :D

[Lyric]

13. I really should take Latin myself

It's a fascinating language, and knowing it would open up a lot of interesting interpretations of English words.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

15. I'm in my third year of it, and it is endlessly amusing.

Yes, I :loveya: Latin. And yes, knowing Latin helps my English vocabulary a LOT, to the point where I can pretty much guess what a lot of words mean even if I've never seen them before, as long as they're Latinate. I hope to take a few years of Greek in college to really sink in my classical education. :D

[Lyric]

16. In high school, the only choices I had were

Spanish and French. I'm pretty sure my college offers a course on classical languages, so I'll definitely look into it. I'd also like to learn Hebrew and Greek. :hi:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

22. Do so. Also, check your PM--I replied to you.

The translation you want is in there, and I'll repost it here: "These are God's tears. God's tears" becomes "Haec lacrimae Dei sunt. Lacrimae Dei," using the traditional "verb at end of sentence" prose sentence structure. Latin word order is highly changeable, though, since it's a declined as well as conjugated language.

[Lyric]

26. Got it!

Thank you so much. :yourock:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

27. No problem.

Like I said, I love Latin. This is highly entertaining for me. :D

[Gormy Cuss]

19. Etiam is another world for 'even' in that usage.

Etiam means 'as yet' or 'still' and by extension it's also the Latin equivalent of "by all means" do something, and I think in a list of items where in English we would say "Joe, Susie, and even Pat" etiam would be used.

To get a proper translation requires understanding context and your phrases are so short that I think any automated translator would fail you.

I'll also fail you because at this point I'm lucky to be able to translate FROM Latin.

on edit: I agree with WIMR on vel. It's not necessarily the wrong word to use.

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. Mongo et Candygrammus. Et Candygrammus.

[Lyric]

14. ...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



Mongo LIKE Rabrrrrrr

[WritingIsMyReligion]

24. Incidentally, this is a great translator online, though it only works if you know how to understand

declensions, conjugations, et. al. Sort of like an online English-Latin/Latin-English dictionary.

http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/showcase/wordsonline.html

[Gormy Cuss]

28. Thanks for the great link, WIMR.

One more place online where I could waste a lot of time.:-)

How about Atque as even in this context? I hate thinking about Latin because all these words are swimming around in my head waiting to be called up but I have no reason to do so these days.

[Gormy Cuss]

29. Okay, don't get me started.

This bugged me enough that I was still thinking about it this morning and I believe that what you want is "Et lacrimatus est Deus. Et Deus." Why?
Because the Vulgate translation of "And Jesus wept" is Et lacrimatus est Iesus with the conjunction also being permissible for the English sense of "And even Jesus wept" ---

-Gormy, former college Latin nerd.

[Hand]

30. Try this for meter and economy.

"Deus, etiam Deus,flevit." It's not literal word for word, but IMHO it's more "Latin" in structure. You could use "vel" instead of etiam if you wanted. A standalone partial sentence like "Etiam Deus" would be very unusual in Latin. :hi:

[JoePhilly]

31. This is all Greek to me ...

O8)