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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 10:57 PM Original message |
Do we have an ethical right to terraform Mars? |
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MonkeyFunk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 10:59 PM Response to Original message |
1. Sure |
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pitohui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:00 PM Response to Original message |
2. why wouldn't it be? |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:03 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. What if Mars has life? |
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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:55 AM Response to Reply #4 |
35. Well, they can try their damnest to - areoform?- earth. |
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pitohui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 08:27 PM Response to Reply #4 |
119. what if it doesn't? |
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Oeditpus Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:17 PM Response to Reply #2 |
12. Have you not read the Prime Directive? |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:21 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Her Prime Directive is rather..... un Star Trek like |
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Oeditpus Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:02 PM Response to Original message |
3. 'We are not engaged in planet-building' |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:04 PM Response to Reply #3 |
6. Tee hee |
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darkstar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:06 PM Response to Reply #3 |
7. hahaha |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:04 PM Response to Original message |
5. Considering that Mars is, as far as we know, uninhabited.... |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:06 PM Response to Reply #5 |
8. But even without life on the planet, does the planet itself have rights? |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:23 PM Response to Reply #8 |
15. A planet has no more rights than a rock... |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:30 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. But how is "hazards that could destroy it right now" different from white supremecy? |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:34 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. Uhm, OK, now you really diverged from... |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:45 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. Why is it a divergence? |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:48 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. Unless Mars is some type of sentient planetary computer... |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:04 AM Response to Reply #25 |
72. Why does it need to be sentient? |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 04:52 PM Response to Reply #72 |
87. Who said a "living" planet has rights? |
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quip (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 06:38 PM Response to Reply #87 |
92. Great points. In the end, it is about saving our own asses. |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 09:35 PM Response to Reply #87 |
105. You brought up sentient, which implies life. |
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Oeditpus Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:57 PM Response to Reply #15 |
28. ... |
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quip (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:57 AM Response to Reply #28 |
38. Gort, Klaatu barada nikto |
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quip (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:57 PM Response to Reply #8 |
29. You've found and smoked some really good weed, haven't you! |
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petronius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 03:02 AM Response to Reply #8 |
61. You know how many Martian meteorites have hit Earth over the millenia? |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:01 AM Response to Reply #61 |
71. Oh, sure, terraforming as a form of vengeance and an act of pure hate I can deal with. |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 06:47 PM Response to Reply #71 |
93. Nature acts because of needs |
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Fox Mulder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:34 PM Response to Reply #5 |
20. Didn't you see this photo? |
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Jeff In Milwaukee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:36 PM Response to Reply #20 |
78. Forget about him.. |
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ghostsofgiants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 04:51 PM Response to Reply #20 |
86. Is he checking his watch? |
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Frank Cannon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:11 PM Response to Original message |
9. Why not? We terraformed Earth... |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:15 PM Response to Reply #9 |
10. Xenu? Is that you? |
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darkstar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:15 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. That's the crux right there |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:32 PM Response to Reply #9 |
19. We could actually terraform Venus as well... |
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krispos42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 04:28 AM Response to Reply #19 |
67. It might be faster to.... |
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DarkTirade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:54 PM Response to Reply #9 |
27. That's just silly. |
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LostInAnomie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:21 PM Response to Original message |
14. Ethical, schmethical! |
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darkstar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:26 PM Response to Reply #14 |
16. tri-boobage rocks |
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LostInAnomie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:31 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. No joke. |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:34 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. Only if we also develop the gene for "And I want to let any guy touch them who wants to". |
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Book Lover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:23 AM Response to Reply #22 |
42. Sadly for you folks, I have a strong suspicion the |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 06:52 PM Response to Reply #18 |
94. What are you going to do with the third boob?? |
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pokerfan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:23 PM Response to Reply #94 |
99. It's a beautiful thing ain't it? |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:31 PM Response to Reply #99 |
101. and strangely stimulating |
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puerco-bellies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:48 PM Response to Original message |
24. It is within our biological imperative to alter our environment to suit our needs. |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:01 AM Response to Reply #24 |
39. ridiculous! |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:20 AM Response to Reply #39 |
40. interesting fantasy |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:22 AM Response to Reply #40 |
41. please explain |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:25 AM Response to Reply #41 |
43. I dont' buy it |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:30 AM Response to Reply #43 |
44. exactly |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:47 AM Response to Reply #44 |
45. where do you get the idea H/G's have naturally limited populations? |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:58 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. it's based on the Theory of Evolution by Darwin |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:04 AM Response to Reply #46 |
49. I'm not saying agriculture wasn't a huge change or arguing |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:13 AM Response to Reply #49 |
52. they did |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:34 AM Response to Reply #52 |
57. territorialism was not invented with agriculture |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:45 AM Response to Reply #57 |
58. when did i say that? |
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puerco-bellies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:58 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Subsitute ownership to territorality. |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 03:07 AM Response to Reply #60 |
62. But hunter-gatherers never claimed to "own" the land |
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puerco-bellies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 03:21 AM Response to Reply #62 |
63. The primary difference is ownership is a legal concept. |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 03:39 AM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Human conflict is always certain |
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puerco-bellies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 03:45 AM Response to Reply #64 |
65. The Chiricahua were. |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:30 PM Response to Reply #64 |
75. they sure as hell were for thousands of years |
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Connonym (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:58 AM Response to Reply #45 |
47. one word for you -- corn |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:05 AM Response to Reply #47 |
50. see post above (#49) |
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puerco-bellies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:08 AM Response to Reply #39 |
51. Not so. |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:21 AM Response to Reply #51 |
55. Tis Folly |
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puerco-bellies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:28 AM Response to Reply #55 |
56. Do you not agree that they are a minipulation of our enviornment? |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 06:59 AM Response to Reply #56 |
70. I've thought about since reading your earlier post a while ago |
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puerco-bellies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 06:01 PM Response to Reply #70 |
114. To clear trees is full scale destruction of that environment, if you were one of the trees. |
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krispos42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 04:12 AM Response to Reply #39 |
66. We began "thriving" when we began planting stuff |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:33 PM Response to Reply #66 |
76. of course the downside is we also gave control of food to others |
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krispos42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:12 PM Response to Reply #76 |
80. Well, that's an extremely recent development |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:47 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. sure monsanto and seed patents are recent, but we gave up the control |
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krispos42 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:17 PM Response to Reply #81 |
83. That's why we need more family farms... |
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pokerfan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 04:46 PM Response to Reply #81 |
85. Damn sodbusters |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 06:58 PM Response to Reply #39 |
95. HG to agro...because it is our nature |
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DarkTirade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:53 PM Response to Original message |
26. Unless there's life there that we'd be disrupting, I don't see why not. |
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Lethe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-13-08 11:59 PM Response to Original message |
30. no |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:02 PM Response to Reply #30 |
96. nor does any other species |
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Swede (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:07 AM Response to Original message |
31. Sure. Drop a couple big comets,instant heat and water. |
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pokerfan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:14 AM Response to Original message |
32. Read Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:41 PM Response to Reply #32 |
123. Just Posted The Exact Same Thing |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:45 PM Response to Reply #123 |
124. Yeah - posted it 45.43 hours later. |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:51 PM Response to Reply #124 |
126. Heh |
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pokerfan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:48 PM Response to Reply #123 |
125. KSR borrowed a lot of concepts from Zubrin's Mars Direct |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:56 PM Response to Reply #125 |
127. Not Familiar W/ Zubrin |
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pokerfan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 10:45 PM Response to Reply #127 |
129. Zubrin |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 11:48 AM Response to Reply #129 |
131. Cool! |
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Book Lover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:50 AM Response to Original message |
33. Well... |
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Inchworm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:54 AM Response to Original message |
34. Hells yea! |
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Inchworm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:50 AM Response to Reply #34 |
59. I love Mars!! |
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bridgit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:56 AM Response to Original message |
36. Yup! And I say the sooner the better or there'll be trouble plenty!! |
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Fire Walk With Me (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:56 AM Response to Original message |
37. Look what we've done to this little gem. We should fix it completely before being worthy |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:04 PM Response to Reply #37 |
97. At what point to we define it to be fixed? |
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Connonym (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 01:59 AM Response to Original message |
48. It's not only ethical, it's the RIGHT thing to do... |
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lligrd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:17 AM Response to Original message |
53. Forget Mars, Saturnian Moon Has Oil Reserves |
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amitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:19 AM Response to Original message |
54. If we trashed Earth, we will trash throughout the galaxy like a |
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Xithras (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 05:40 AM Response to Original message |
68. If there is no life, then there is no reason not to. |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:36 PM Response to Reply #68 |
79. RIGHTS are a legal construct that should only be applicable to |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:17 PM Response to Reply #79 |
82. I disagree. |
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Kali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 05:10 PM Response to Reply #82 |
88. could you elucidate the philosophical rights you are talking about |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #82 |
98. Who endows these inalienable rights? |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 09:46 PM Response to Reply #98 |
107. Why must those rights be endowed? Why can't they just be? |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 05:47 PM Response to Reply #107 |
113. So humans are special? |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 06:06 PM Response to Reply #113 |
115. No, that's exactly NOT what I said. |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 08:15 PM Response to Reply #115 |
117. "The difference with humans ..." |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:27 PM Response to Reply #117 |
121. But how do you define special? |
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YankeyMCC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 06:00 AM Response to Original message |
69. I believe we do...at least to a point |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:31 AM Response to Original message |
73. yup |
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ConcernedCanuk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 09:16 AM Response to Original message |
74. Depends who "we" entails. If it was an Earth coalition formed under the United Nations |
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SOteric (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 12:34 PM Response to Original message |
77. They're going to complain a little bit, |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 02:18 PM Response to Reply #77 |
84. Well, you see, that's just totally reasonable. |
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pokerfan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 05:22 PM Response to Original message |
89. Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids |
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darkstar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:25 PM Response to Reply #89 |
100. Niiiiiiiiiice.......... |
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slutticus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 05:32 PM Response to Original message |
90. Not if it's Weyland-Yutani doing the terraforming |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 06:33 PM Response to Reply #90 |
91. Funny you should mention them. They had me go check out a "distress signal" once. |
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slutticus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 08:01 PM Response to Reply #91 |
103. "Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?" |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 09:26 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. Alien and Aliens were both *@(%^# fantastic. |
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x-g.o.p.er (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 07:43 PM Response to Original message |
102. As long as we have US Colonial Marines... |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 09:40 PM Response to Original message |
106. I'm sure this is Bush's Plan A. |
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Xipe Totec (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 10:27 PM Response to Original message |
108. God said, 'Mars is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours. |
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Yavin4 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 10:34 PM Response to Original message |
109. Maybe Terraforming Is How Earth Got Started |
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MrScorpio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-14-08 11:12 PM Response to Original message |
110. Without a viable magnetic field, I don't even think it's possible |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 08:12 PM Response to Reply #110 |
116. a number of options... |
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MrScorpio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 12:27 AM Response to Reply #116 |
130. You, my friend, are a genius |
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Solon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 04:02 PM Response to Reply #116 |
136. Hmm...on your first point... |
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RushIsRot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 12:55 AM Response to Original message |
111. IF and until we get there, this is a rather rhetorical question. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 03:18 AM Response to Original message |
112. No --- but it may be necessary since the idiots have pretty much destroyed |
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Perry Logan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 08:16 PM Response to Original message |
118. Guys...chill. They're gonna say we're soft on aliens. |
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leeroysphitz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 08:46 PM Response to Original message |
120. Yes, BUT... To paraphrase one famous teraformer: "There can't be so much as a microbe... |
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Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:40 PM Response to Original message |
122. You Should Read Kim Stanley Robinson's "Mars Trilogy" |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-15-08 09:59 PM Response to Original message |
128. gawdjeezis wants us to stip mine the whole planet and make it ours |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 12:07 PM Response to Original message |
132. The idea that this is even going to be viable soon is incorrect |
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datasuspect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 12:10 PM Response to Original message |
133. if G-d created it, he made it to give us dominion over it |
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Tektonik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 12:14 PM Response to Original message |
134. We have the right, yes |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 03:53 PM Response to Original message |
135. By the time we can do that we won't need to. |
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ChazII (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-16-08 04:10 PM Response to Original message |
137. Nope |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu May 02nd 2024, 08:00 PM Response to Original message |
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