Quit, or Get Fired?

[Schema Thing]

I have a good friend who is probably going to be moving out of state within six months or so. Her problem is that she doesn't think she can endure six months in her current work environment. It's a huge international corporation, with really nasty, stupid, ineffective middle management, and she has zero political or managerial power there.

However, there is no guarantee that she can just walk out and get another job making the same amount of money or with anywhere near the same insurance package. She would in fact like to change industries altogether when she moves.

I know her, and there is no way she can look at the next six months and say to herself, "I'll just tough it out" at this point (she actually is just about to go back from taking a stress leave and getting therapy, and, I fear, intends to just go back in for one day and quit).

My problem is that I've been self-employed so long that I have very little idea how unemployment compensation works, or what the risk are of being fired vs quitting (in terms of both unemployment compensation AND how it looks to other employers), so I don't have much advice to give.

My understanding though, is that large corporations HR dept's no longer give recommendations or negative comments to prospective employers about their past employees? They only confirm that the person did work there, is this correct?

If I'm correct about that, my thought is that it would be better to be fired and have the chance to get unemployment in the event work was not available quickly. Why not just "Office Space" it for a while, keep the job for as long as possible w/o really stressing over the personal politics (for the benefits and paycheck), and let them terminate if and when they so choose?

Any suggestions from those who have played the cube-rat game in corporate America?

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. NO unemployment if you quit.

Though I'm no legal expert by any stretch of the imagination (though I did take an accounting class once, which is as close to studying the law as I've ever come), but so far as I know, in every state in this wonderful nation, if you quit, you don't get unemployment. Unemployment is ONLY for those who find themselves without work for reasons outside their control.

In all seriousness, and knowing full well what it means to work a job that sucks - if she's moving soon anyway, I'd advise her to just tough it out and look for another job. Always easier to find a job if you are already unemployed.

[bicentennial_baby]

3. Unless you're me...

My former boss was so f'n abusive (throwing 5 lb steel stamps at people's heads, etc) and had so many state labor board complaints, I got unemployment in a heartbeat. He ended up getting sued by an employee and had to go to anger management. :D

[barb162]

15. How do jerks like that ever get to be a boss?

There are so many stories like that.

[MrCoffee]

2. If she's fired "for cause", she's likewise ineligible for unemployment

As a general rule.


Always better to quit than to get fired.

[skater314159]

4. I would recommend

... getting fired over quitting for a couple of reasons.

As you stated, if you get fired, you can collect unemployment, which can be a real help in this economy. It would also give your friend time to find a GOOD job that won't stress her out as much - you are more likely to take a shitty job when times are tough. Having time to chill and consider your options seems like it would be the best thing in this situation.

I also enjoy your concept of "Office Spacing Out" till they DO fire her. Tell her to just kick back, relax, and fuck the stress... well, you might wanna tell her in different terms, but you get my idea. If she is laid back and doesn't engage in the negative environment, the meanies and people who suck might stop bothering/targeting her and move on to other people who DO give a response... also she might have the effect of modeling good behaviour for others in the office to follow. Tell her to think of it as a peaceful revolution where she gets a paycheck...

One final thing... depending on what kind of nastiness she is having to endure, it is possible that she might want to make a complaint to HR... but if she thinks that would just stress her out more or make the situation worse (which it can!) I would advise against that...

Hope that helps!
:loveya:
skater314159

[crispini]

5. Ew, both are bad.

You never know what HR is going to do, but your understanding is close to mine.

The thing is that if she's an "okay" employee -- by which I mean, she has never had any official complaints, by which I mean, complaints about her that her boss has lodged with HR -- then it will take far longer than 6 months for them to fire her.

Can you somehow convince her to become Slacker Girl? Go in and just do the minimum to get by and not give a rat's ass about the job? That would be the best, IMO, and she will very likely not get fired for it.

Worst employee I ever knew -- he was just blindingly incompetent -- took my boss a year to get rid of him.

[Uncle Sinister]

8. I used to work in HR, I never knew what we were going to do,

(nor did my boss, I think she made it up as she went) Weird job, but I digress.

I'd definitely rec. the "slacker" approach. Show up on time, no pranks, be polite, and do the absolute minimum. And do it relaxed and casually.

Makes it almost impossible to fire for cause, which means either they keep her or she's eligible for unemployment bennies. And remember it's not based on current income, but her income 15 months ago.

[Recovered Repug]

9. If she tried the slacker approach where I work,

she'd probably get promoted.

[Zenlitened]

6. She should try to negotiate her departure.

Beginning with a talk with the Human Resources director. It doesn't have to be confrontational, just something along the lines of "we're not a good match anymore." (The workplace equivalent of "we should see other people"!)

It's possible that HR will feel the same way, particularly as your friend has been on medical leave already, and will be willing to discuss a mutual parting-of-the-ways.

If so, your friend should seek a written severance agreement that includes money (unused vacation time, for example, plus whatever else she can bargain for) as well as the company's agreement not to contest when she files for unemployment.

The contract will probably include a non-disclosure provision, plus an agreement not to sue. That's the biggie, from HR's point of view. A severance agreement eliminates any future risk for them, in exchange for a relatively modest sum that, hopefully, will provide your friend a little security as she explores a career change.

[flvegan]

7. "Office Space it" for a while, and here's why...

Huge corporation means they probably have some sort of pre-termination rules. Short of beating your manager to death, or committing a crime, she'd probably get a verbal warning, then a written warning before termination. I'd see how long I could coast through the warnings before I quit. Getting fired may leave a bad taste in the mouth of her future, potential employers.

Most HR departments only answer a couple of questions about prior employees, and one of them is (I believe) "would you rehire?" and an answer of "no" never sounds good if that employee is fired.

[radfringe]

10. unemployment eligibility varies from state to state

best to check out your state's unemployment website for specific eligibilty requirement

some may grant unemployment benefits if you are FIRED

in other states if you quit or have been fired you don't qualify unless there's extenuating circumstances - if so you appeal the denial of benefits and request a hearing to state why you quit, or feel you were unfairly fired

if she's serious about moving in 6 months, she should start looking now for a job in that state and be prepared to relocate quickly

with the economy tanking, jobs are not easy to come by, and it may take her that long or longer to find a job to her liking

[monmouth]

11. Most jobs, at most levels, now have at least 150-200 applicants,

I kid you not. Very scary, she should hang in there as long as possible..

[meegbear]

12. If she's probably gonna move, then bite the bullet and stay ...

but she should start looking for a new job (she doesn't have to say she may be moving). If she moves, all set and if she doesn't, she may have a new job by then.

[Rosemary2205]

13. This post pisses me off.

Is she mentally ill? If so, then in all honesty, I hope she gets the medical attention she needs. Living with mental illness is no fun - for the patient or those who love them. And resources for mental illness are often hard to come by (which pisses me off). Maybe she needs to be on SS disability if her mental problems are so serious she cannot work.

If this is not the case then someone needs to give her a kick in the ass and tell her to quit being such a fucking whiner. People who have a half decent job who would rather suck off the gubmint teet rather than drag their ass to work piss me off too. Yes, it's nice if our work can be fun. But if it isn't tough shit. Gawd help us if we ALL become a nation of delicate little daisies who need "stress breaks".

[Deja Q]

14. Define 'stress', but I agree.

There are many types of 'good stress' as there are bad ones.

Giving people stress that compels them to improve and succeed is not the same thing as lambasting them for every little thing, in an attempt to get them to quit out of angst. Mind games are not nice.

[VenusRising]

16. Wow.

What a big heart you have.

[Rosemary2205]

18. I do have a big heart.

I've spent the better part of my life building and running a summer and weekend camp for as risk foster kids. Though it's harder for me now that I'm still adjusting to life in the wheelchair, I still manage to do most of what I did before with the Feed the Hungry events. I also have spent all my adult life giving a fair amount of my income and a good 10 hours every week trying to get better and more services for the both the clinically mentally ill and for those who have emotional or learning disabilities. My family accuses me of "taking in strays" all the time.

People who need help ought to be able to get it and it sickens me that these services are so hard to come by. If someone has a disabling physical problem we manage to find all sorts of medical care, even for the destitute - yes it's less that perfect but it can be done. But when they have a disabling mental problem we almost always turn a blind eye.


I have lived all my life on the edge between barely getting by and falling into the pit. I come from many many generations who straddled that line too. You won't catch a damn one of us whining about how we can get the gubmint to cough up some money so we don't have put up with our mean old boss anymore. My grandpa put 16 hr days in a factory with horrid conditions. His wife cleaned rich white people's houses back in the days when they called her "their girl". The very idea that they should LIKE thier jobs or who they worked for was a non-thought to them. If my grandpa heard some woman whining about how stressful it was to work in a nice clean air conditioned cubicle he'd probably smack her ass across the room. Literally.

[LeftyFingerPop]

17. I hope this does not come across as too snarky...

but be very careful when asking for this kind of advice on a message board.

Much, but not all, of the advice that has been given here is fucking unreasoned horse shit.

Be careful on this serious matter.

Good luck.