"Goddamn you all, I told you so" - HG Wells

[Rabrrrrrr]

I'm watching a History channel show "Prophets of Science Fiction", and the ending bit about HG Wells mentioned how angry he was in his later years because after all his warnings about misuse of technology, and how we - as humans - need to be more careful, we didn't listen and dropped the A-Bomb and were building more.

HG Wells, toward the end of his life, bitter and angry said that his epitaph should read "Goddamn you all, I told you so."

Reminds of me Heston's character at the end of Planet of the Apes - "You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! Goddamn you all to hell!"

Nuclear bombs are genie the bottle of which should never have been opened.

If there's any reason to never, ever vote for a Republican or a right wing Christian, it's our nuclear arsenal.

Fucking evil shitbag slime love to talk about the evil of homosexuality - the biggest evil on this planet is nuclear weapons, and the inhuman shitbags who think using them is a cool idea.

Ah, HG Wells - we never listen to our prophets. I'm surprised some rightwinger didn't assassinate him, which is what we usually do with our prophets.

[bicentennial_baby]

1. I completely agree with you...

I'm about to begin reading "The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb" by Gar Alperovitz.

http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Use-Atomic-Bomb/dp/067976285X

[Droopy]

2. Preach on, brother

I hope I live to see the day when we dismantle our nukes. I'd also like to see the day when we dismantle our war ships and planes and tanks and guns, but that might be a little too optimistic.

[ismnotwasm]

3. And then

We get all the revisionist history about how many "lives" dropping "the bomb" saved.

[bicentennial_baby]

4. Apparently, that is

in the book I'm about to read (see post above). Basically, Alperovitz tracked down the guy that originally said that dropping the bombs saved however millions of lives, and he got the guy to admit that he essentially made it up. :o

[CGowen]

9. Well, according to Truman, Hiroshima was a military base

http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=31644

[bicentennial_baby]

11. Yikes...

:o

[ghostsofgiants]

12. I am shocked!

Except not shocked at all.

Check out the HBO documentary about the bombings, White Light/Black Rain.

[bicentennial_baby]

14. Hehe...

I'll see if I can get that on Netflix... :)

[ghostsofgiants]

15. It's really good.

And really sad. The "Aftermath" section was one of the hardest things I've ever watched in my life. Anyone who can say those people deserved that shit because it was a war and war has casualties is an inhuman monster.

[bicentennial_baby]

16. Just added it on Netflix...

And I agree, 100%. :pals:

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. I was pretty anti-nuke before, but after I visited Hiroshima in 2004

I'm not just anti-nuke in the sense of "Oh, let's get rid of the darn things" but in the sense of "Any species evil enough to build such evil, and to do so in mass quantity, is a species that deserves to be annihilated by them".

They make me cry for humanity.

[bicentennial_baby]

18. It is the abomination of modern science...

Of all the good they could have discovered and created....this! :wtf:

I don't like to talk about it much, b/c it makes me so furious and sad. x(

[ghostsofgiants]

22. Agreed completely.

[CGowen]

19. I really liked the movie "Radio Bikini" about the testing

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093817/

user comment:

What I found interesting about this documentary is the glimpse it gives us of the state of mind of the United States just after World War II, now sixty years past. We see in the newsreel and other film footage the style and substance of America in the afterglow of our greatest victory. But mostly we see ordinary soldiers and sailors who were stationed on or near the Bikini Atoll in the Marshalls in the South Pacific. We also see some of the islanders whom the United States military displaced so that the capabilities of the atom bomb could be explored.

An old uneducated Bikini islander recalls how his people were told that in the interest of "science" (but actually in the interest of weapons development) they would have to leave their home island and be relocated. Then at some point they were told that they would not be able to return to their island since it was "poisoned." Film maker Robert Stone shows us the big media build up orchestrated by the US to justify dropping the bomb on Bikini. (Actually one bomb was dropped. Another was exploded under water in the Bikini lagoon.) Dignitaries and scientists from all over the world were invited to watch. Stone shows them arriving and being greeted by the officer in charge as a voice-over gives their names, country of origin and their titles. I found that interesting. Two from India, a couple from the USSR, some Asians, and many more. Ah, yes, the US was going to make the world safe from nuclear power by experimenting with nuclear power
...

trailer
http://www.vimeo.com/191433

[ghostsofgiants]

20. I'll have to look into that.

[bicentennial_baby]

21. The Bikini Atoll stories push my limits...

Reading them has made me :puke:. It's just....SO f'n wrong. Sigh. x(

I can haz alternate citizenship nowz, plz?

[CGowen]

5. Prophets or script writers? n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. I didn't ask a question, so I don't know what kind of clarification you're looking for.

:shrug:

[CGowen]

23. He had some unconventional views

Eugenics, World State without democracy and other stuff reflected in works like

The Shape of Things to Come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shape_of_Things_to_Come

The Open Conspiracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Conspiracy

The New World Order
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_World_Order_%28Wells%29

..

His most consistent political ideal was the World State. He stated in his autobiography that from 1900 onward he considered a world-state inevitable. The details of this state varied but in general it would be a planned society that would advance science, end nationalism, and allow people to advance solely by merit rather than birth. He also was consistent that it must not be a democracy. He stated that in the same period he came to realise a world-state was inevitable, he realised that parliamentary democracy as then practised was insufficient. Wells remained fairly consistent in rejection of a world-state being a parliamentary democracy and therefore during his work on the United Nations Charter he opposed any mention of democracy.

..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. The scumbags need an enemy, a threatening demon, to point to or we wouldn't have weapons at all.

They need someone to use them on.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. Didn't take 'em very fucking long after Russia went down, either, did it?

Amazing how Russia was the world's biggest bugaboo, way way way greater than any other place out there, and as soon as it imploded, the Republicans found another Great Big Super Dangerous OHMYGODTHEY'REGONNAKILLUS!!!!! enemy; an enemy that wasn't even worth mentioning a few months before.

You're right - evil people need an enemy. Probably because they know they can't be trusted and that they get stiffies thinking about war and violence, they refuse to trust any one else and assume that everyone else wants war and violence so that they, too, can get stiffies.

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. Those who want to control everything use fear to bring people into control.

And others, weapons.

Note how Bush is again calling Iran the world leader in terrorism (even though Bin Laden is supposedly in Pakistan)?

Gee, I wonder what happens next? Might the Iraqis have any insight into the matter?

[Flaxbee]

24. money money money money money, honey!

think of all the old fart white guys who got SO RICH from building/selling nuclear weapons. They cost *soooo* much, and of course the US can spend itself into a hole to build them to keep us "safe" but can't spend hardly anything for education, healthcare, etc. Building the bomb was a mistake in the first place, but it really ushered in the military industrial complex that Eisenhower was wise enough to warn against - the thought of building a weapon that costly was probably just intoxicating for the defense guys.

Johnson got rich(er) from war, and Reagan said blow out the Treasury, let's spend all we have and more to beat the evil Commies, and then the 90s were just too peaceful. Think about it - Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc., had their stocks tanking when the Internet was booming. AOL could have bought Lockheed. So what was the impoverished (ha) defense industry to do? Create a new enemy, create a reason for more military build up, especially nuclear military buildup, b/c that's the most expensive kind! Yippee! Happy days are here again, right?

Nuclear power is an atrocity. And what we have done with it - the mass destruction of human life (the US only, the sense that we bombed the atolls and Japan, and hey - even experimented with fallout on our own fricking population) and the poisoning of the environment (any country that uses nuclear power) - is so incredibly shameful.

[Ekirh]

8. Credit to Tom Lehrer

Who's Next

First we got the bomb, and that was good,
'Cause we love peace and motherhood.
Then Russia got the bomb, but that's okay,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way.
Who's next?

France got the bomb, but don't you grieve,
'Cause they're on our side (I believe).
China got the bomb, but have no fears,
They can't wipe us out for at least five years.
Who's next?

Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right:
One for the black and one for the white.
Who's next?

Egypt's gonna get one too,
Just to use on you know who.
So Israel's getting tense.
Wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's our shepherd," says the psalm,
But just in case, we better get a bomb.
Who's next?

Luxembourg is next to go,
And (who knows?) maybe Monaco.
We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb.
Who's next?
Who's next?
Who's next?
Who's next?

[Rabrrrrrr]

25. Good one! And this beauty from Carl Sagan:

From "Who Speaks for the Earth":

The conventional bombs of World War II were called "blockbusters", filled with 20 tons of TNT they could destroy a city block. All the bombs dropped on all the cities during World War II amounted to some 2 million tons of TNT -- two megatons. Coventry, Rotterdam, Dresden and Tokyo -- all the death that rained from the skies between 1939 and 1945 -- a hundred thousand blockbusters, two megatons. Today, two megatons is the equivalent of a single thermonuclear bomb -- one bomb with the destructive force of the second world war. But there are tens of thousands of nuclear weapons. The missile and bomber forces in the Soviet Union and United States have warheads aimed at over 15,000 designated targets. No place on the planet is safe.

The energy contained in these weapons -- genies of death, patiently awaiting the rubbing of the lamps -- totals far more than 10,000 megatons; but, with the destruction concentrated efficiently, not over six years but over a few hours. A blockbuster for every family on the planet; a World War II every second for the length of a lazy afternoon.

[blindpig]

26. He was also a socialist.

One smart fella! He'd be equally disappointed that capitalism is still around.

[PVnRT]

27. Ever read "Foster, You're Dead" by Philip K. Dick

Frightening accurate portrayal of fearmongering and consumerism.