What is the meaning of a wedding ring?

[mentalsolstice]

My father-in-law died a couple of days ago. His death is not a big deal. He really lived big, was much loved, and died peacefully at 88 years old.

Yet, we already have a little disagreement with his Will, which was made in 1994. He left his wife's diamond rings, engagement & wedding rings, to my sister-in-law (who was twice married at that time, and IS now on her third marriage. His son (now my husband and only married to me) was to get the silver, crystal, fine China, and a diamond cross. However, when we became engaged in 1995, my FiL, got the diamond rings out of his safe deposit box for his son to give to me...but he didn't amend his will to reflect the change. Additionally, my husband sold the diamond cross and we spent the money a long time ago, not knowing the terms of the will. And we really have no interest in the silver, china and crystal.

Here's the gist. When we decided to get married, I didn't want an engagement ring. Yet, when my mother-in-law's set was shown to me...I fell in love. It was so antique and dainty (no huge stones, yet a platinum setting from 1943, with a WWII history). To this day, I get compliments on it. However, my SiL has expressed her interest in the rings and the china. Maybe we could do a trade-off? BTW, I've already got it in my will for the rings to go to to her (SiL) granddaughter, so it wasn't like they were going to leave the family. I just simply want to wear the rings until I'm very old, or I die. But right now, my SiL is not really showing her hand as to whether she'll compromise, so to speak.

I'm hoping it doesn't turn into a fight...yet given past family history, it possibly will...However, I'm really protective of my little rings right now. I've worn them proudly for 12+ years...I've got a worn groove in my finger from these sweet little rings. I'm really attached to them and everything they represent...I love my beautiful, sweet husband and I love the memory of him giving me the engagement ring that I didn't want, until he told me the history behind it...and then the wedding ring that came with it.

[struggle4progress]

1. If your FIL really gave the ring to his son to give you as an engagement ring

years ago, I'd take the position it can't be considered part of the estate: the property was your FIL's to dispose as he saw fit -- and he gave it away before his death.

I'd probably be very pleasant but not very flexible about that, especially if your SIL has known for years that the ring was on your finger and how it got there. If you are willing to do so, why not offer her the china as a peace offering, explaining that you think the ring is yours but understand her feelings and know she wants the china. Don't make a big deal out of it and shake her hand if she accepts the china. Then you can say later it was your understanding that everything was even-steven and you both shook on it.

But it might not hurt you to ask to lawyer for advice, without mentioning the consultation to your SIL, if you really anticipate a fight

[Manifestor_of_Light]

3. I vote that the FIL gave it to his son before his death.

LONG before his death. And therefore is not part of the FIL's estate.

Probate fights can get nasty and tear families apart. Usually, when the heirs are looting the house, one will say "Mom wanted me to have this" and whiz out the door with it.

If you're not interested in the china, tell her that and offer it to her.

I have a law degree but not a license. Do ask your lawyer. I second what struggle4progress said.

[mentalsolstice]

7. Thanks

I can't imagine that he simply "loaned" us the rings for the past 13 years. And we really have no interest in any of his other personal possessions. However, my FiL liked to stir things up amongst his family members as much as anyone...so who knows what his intent was. I don't want to be selfish about it at all, it's just that the rings (they're the only jewelry I wear besides earrings) are a part of my landscape. I may look at my face 3x per day, but my hands are always in front of me...

[Richard Steele]

2. Either get ready to spend years being nasty, or just let it go......

The LAW is one thing, and human relationships are another one...
the two shall never meet.

Decide which is most important to you, and proceed accordingly.

[mentalsolstice]

8. That's the thing...

My husband and I aren't particularly close to my SiL, cause she's always stirring things up, even with her own children. We decided years ago to pull back, life was too short to be constantly in the middle of all the in-fighting.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. I'm very sorry for your loss

and I agree with everyone here. He gave it away before his death, so it's not part of his estate. But, it will get ugly nonetheless.

I hope you can find some sort of resolution.

[mentalsolstice]

11. Thanks MF!

The ugliness has already begun. We were awoken with a nasty phone call this morning from our nephew because his daughter's name was mis-spelled in the obit, which my husband wrote (it was an honest typo). I can't believe it's already gotten down to such pettiness.

[Catsbrains]

5. That's a tough one...

My family has been split in half over a will. I think you should be able to keep the rings, after all you've been wearing them for 12+ years. Your SiL should be gracious and understanding. If she isn't then I say give her the rings, it's not worth the drama.

[Indi Guy]

6. Where there's a Will - there's a Relative... n/t

[Deep13]

9. You're asking tricky legal questions that require expert advice.

Speaking hypothetically, any time property mentioned in a will is given away during the donor's life, that bequest becomes extinquished. In other words the donor cannot give away what he does not own.

DO NO RELY ON THIS. Get a legal opinion.

[seemunkee]

10. If he had sold it she couldn't go claim it

He gave it away, its no longer a part of the estate.
What if he had sold a house and it was in his will? They couldn't go kick the people out.
The rings are yours.

[mentalsolstice]

12. Good point!

Normally when a couple gets divorced, the wife has no duty to give the rings back. However, my FiL always loved controversy.

I simply realized how much I would miss seeing my little rings on my hand, they're like a part of my body.

[Gormy Cuss]

15. Do you have a bill of sale? Do you have written documentation that it was a gift, not a loan?

If not, it will get ugly if the s-i-l doesn't recognize your ownership. I agree with others who suggested that you need to consult with an attorney. It's a shame that your f-i-l didn't amend his will.

[bikebloke]

13. Grandmother's

My grandmother's engagement ring was supposed to go to me for my own bethroal. But my father gave it to his sociopathic, no-good daughter, because the dumb, lazy sod she trapped with an "accidental" pregnancy couldn't afford one. There were some angry relatives after that.

[AlCzervik]

14. Since your fil gave it to you long before he died then i don't think it's considered

part of the estate anymore, it was a gift. Good luck, sometimes a death in the family really brings out the worst in people. My Dad has asked me to handle his estate when he dies and now that i've seen his will i really don't envy my position when it does happen.

[Bucky]

16. You should all go on the Maury Povich show and let the audience applause decide

In fact, all family disputes should be mediated by rowdy crowds of people who don't have jobs to go to during day time hours.

[mentalsolstice]

19. With this crowd...

that may be the optimal way to handle it.

[yellowcanine]

17. This is a good reason why wills are often not the best way to go. Modern estate planning is not

centered on the will. For large estates, some kind of trust is usually used. As for possessions, the best solution for older people is to give them away before they die and then not mention the stuff in the will. Obviously this does not always work but it can work really well. I have an aunt who was selling her place and moving in with her sister. She married late (49) to a widower so she had a lot of stuff that had little meaning to her step children but had a lot of meaning to the nieces and nephews because she was the adventureous single aunt who had traveled all over the world. So she compiled an inventory of all of the things she wanted to give to us, sent us the list, and told us to stake our claims. A few things she reserved for certain individuals or families because of the special symbolism for that individual/family. Obviously some things several people wanted so she drew lots for those and then tried to give something similar to the losers. (She had a lot of stuff and actually there were not that many claims for the same things). It really worked well. In my case I got a small Hopi bowl. My aunt gave it to me and told me about how she happened to acquire it. I wrote down the information she gave me and put it with the bowl. I will give it to one of my daughters with a curse on the person who ever lets it get out of the family. It means a lot more to me than it would have getting it in her will after she died. I will give it to one of my daughters with a curse on the person who ever lets it get out of the family. My wife's grandmother did something similar but she had them simply tape their names to the things and they were then given out when she had to go into a nursing home.

[mentalsolstice]

18. My great-aunt

had little pieces of paper taped under everything with people's names on them, so we all knew who got what.

[Midlodemocrat]

20. They were given to you. They're yours. Regardless of what the will states.

What if the house had burned down and the china/silver et al had been destroyed? C'est la vie, right?

[flvegan]

21. Gift subsequent to the bequest.

Much like a deathbed bequest, it usually trumps a will I think.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. He gave them to you after he made the will. She has nothing to stand on.

As for everything else, you are all certainly free to haggle and negotiate all you want.

Just because someone wills you something doesn't mean you need to accept it, or that you are the only one who can have it - it gives you priority of choice, of course, but it's not a requirement.