Sooo....what's your spin on abuse of animals?

[Tyler Durden]

There is a TON of this way and that going on regarding the Vick sentencing. Although his crime steams me more than I can express, he's out probably $40-50 MILLION in addition to the 23 months he drew from the Fed and whatever he gets from Virginia....

Now my SO on the other hand favors kneecapping with a .45 so it leaves a big enough hole in addition to everything else plus MAX sentences, but she is a female after all and anyone with any brains knows how that works.

So it's your world: What does Vick get for torturing and killing members of our companion species who are likely most responsible for helping us escape the cave and survive as far as we have? Feel free to make suggestions.

[Phillycat]

1. May Iask what this bit means?

but she is a female after all and anyone with any brains knows how that works.

[Tyler Durden]

3. From Kipling:

The Female Of The Species

When the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride,
He shouts to scare the monster who will often turn aside.
But the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail,
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When Nag, the wayside cobra, hears the careless foot of man,
He will sometimes wriggle sideways and avoid it if he can,
But his mate makes no such motion where she camps beside the trail -
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When the early Jesuit fathers preached to Hurons and Choctaws,
They prayed to be delivered from the vengeance of the squaws -
'Twas the women, not the warriors, turned those stark enthusiasts pale -
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man's timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say,
For the Woman that God gave him isn't his to give away;
But when hunter meets with husband, each confirms the others tale -
The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man, a bear in most relations, worm and savage otherwise,
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise;
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.

Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low,
To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe.
Mirth obscene diverts his anger; Doubt and Pity oft perplex
Him in dealing with an issue - to the scandal of the Sex!

But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame
Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same,
And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail,
The female of the species must be deadlier than the male.

She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
May not deal in doubt or pity - must not swerve for fact or jest.
These be purely male diversions - not in these her honor dwells -
She, the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else!

She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great
As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate;
And when Babe and Man are lacking and she strides unclaimed to claim
Her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

She is wedded to convictions - in default of grosser ties;
Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him, who denies!
He will meet no cool discussion, but the instant, white-hot wild
Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

Unprovoked and awful charges - even so the she-bear fights;
Speech that drips, corrodes and poisons - even so the cobra bites;
Scientific vivisection of one nerve till it is raw,
And the victim writhes with anguish - like the Jesuit with the squaw!

So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of abstract justice - which no woman understands.

And Man knows it! Knows, moreover, that the Woman that God gave him
Must command but may not govern; shall enthrall but not enslave him.
And She knows, because She warns him and Her instincts never fail,
That the female of Her species is more deadly than the male!

[Critters2]

86. Oh, this should be good!!

And on my day off, so I'll have time to watch! :popcorn:

[Tyler Durden]

99. Meant as a COMPLIMENT.

Us old guys have odd Ideas of compliments.

She LIKED my Kipling quote below.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. fines. no prison time. i dont think prisons make people better.

so we send in someone abusing dogs, they come out learning how to abuse humans.

house arrest, community service etc too.


in general i feel prison sentences should be treated seriously.

[Tyler Durden]

6. I wonder if people who as adults would torture dogs are not beyond redemption.

The world and mind of the serial killer is entwined with that of the sadist who abuses helpless animals for sport.

And as a companion of the dogs that share my life, I truly do not know what I would do to someone I caught torturing and killing them had I a gun in my hand.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. if they are beyond redemption, they what happens after they are let out of prison

[Tyler Durden]

12. I don't know how to answer that pri.

I do know that one day our societies must have an answer because if they are to be the gentle and caring institutions that they must to put war and conflict behind us, we must have a way to deal with the aberrant or else they will destroy what we build.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. well the thing is we have to decide what it truly a threat to society,

what we are doing for vengeance/punishment and what we can do to prevent this.

i feel very often we are dishonest about this.

[Tyler Durden]

100. Is not punishment for that which displays evil to society...

...(what is determined to be evil in that society) from the hands of one who is supposed to stand as an example, a SPORTSMAN, even more important?

Shall we excuse the STAR, telling the young that all you need be is a STAR and then you may do what evil you wish?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

102. i was arguing more about someone like michael vick than he himself

his stardom means nothing to me.

till this whole thing happened i had no idea who he was. even now, i am not sure what game he plays.

[Tyler Durden]

107. Star Quarterback, Atlanta Falcons, $130 million contract.

This is the reason for the argument. People serve 1-5 years in prison for animal abuse in this country on a regular basis. We just don't hear about them, and nobody advocates for their lives, freedom, or cultural expression because what they do is a FELONY and ILLEGAL.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

110. i still dont think its an imprisonable offense, for him or a guy like him.

his celebrity status is actually the only reason why i think imprisonment in this case probably will not hurt society in the long run.

[Tyler Durden]

112. It's not the point. There are many people serving time for similar crimes.

It's the LAW. If you don't like the law, try to get it changed. But it's the LAW and personally I think when a STAR gets a ride where a regular citizen would not, it sends a very bad message, don't you?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

116. yeah, but you asked my 'spin on animal abuse' and so i told you

i dont think a sentence should be heavier or lighter depending on celebrity status.

[Tyler Durden]

119. Pri, you're willing to give him a "walk."

"i still dont think its an imprisonable offense, for him or a guy like him."

"his celebrity status is actually the only reason why i think imprisonment in this case probably will not hurt society in the long run."

He has already hurt society. If one child hurts a dog because someone tells him what Vick did was no crime, hasn't it hurt society?

[Flaxbee]

16. I agree with you, lionness --

prison is not the answer anymore, it is inhumane and seems to do nothing even close to rehabilitation, and serves mostly as a breeding ground for abuse of others. Vick doesn't seem like he'd be much of a target, but sending someone in to prison, someone who already has a personality disorder, and expecting him to come out at the end of his sentence contrite rather than bitter and enraged is foolishness.

I despise everything Vick did, and if I had ever caught him at it I myself might be facing jail time, but I guess I feel that prison should be reserved for those truly dangerous, mass murderers like our president*. The criminally insane, like the Dahmers of the world, should be in hospitals, not prison.

Anyway. Major major fines, but not enough to render him destitute, which might only lead to more criminal activity when he gets out. House arrest for 23 months, no parties, no laughing it up at home kind of thing. House arrest should be miserable. And LOTS of community service helping animals and humans. It would be nice if he could learn not to be an asshole, rather than being shut up with lots of other extremely angry men for almost 2 years.

Now, if he ever did it again, that's a different story. Then I think you would consider him beyond rehabilitation, a permanently damaged personality, and away he goes to a mental hospital.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

exactly we as a society should decided how much we are willing to pay for vengeance. nt

[Tyler Durden]

22. The line between paying a debt and vengeance is very, very fine.

I have always been one for taking my own vengeance; it tends to limit one in their options for antisocial response.

But who speaks for the voiceless?

We belong to the dogs as much as they belong to us: what they are and what we are is a geshtalt of our shared experiences. If again we needed them to stand with us against an enemy, I doubt they would even hesitate. Do we not owe them something for what we are today?

The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs.
Charles de Gaulle

Man is a dog's ideal of what God should be.
Holbrook Jackson

He that would hang his dog gives out first that he is mad.
English Proverb

If my dog is barred by the heavenly guard
We'll both of us brave the heat!
W. Dayton Wedgefarth

[Flaxbee]

47. absolutely - I think we owe

every living creature respect, love, care, and the knowledge that every living thing on this earth is tied together, interdependent. Dogs are wonderful companions, and really want nothing more than love and respect from their 'owners', to abuse that trust is horrendous.

But I don't think ruining the abuser is the answer, either. And from what I've read, prison has a tendency to ruin a person, and to perhaps even cement the idea that violence, manipulation, preying on the weak, and abuse are valid ways to resolve issues. Damaging Vick's already damaged personality isn't doing anyone, or any creature, any favors.

[Tyler Durden]

104. Seeing his status, I doubt he'll be damaged.

He will never see General Population. The inmates will clamor for autographs. He'll likely serve a year or less and go back to being a SUPERSTAR.

I doubt that Michael Vick will suffer 0.01% of the pain his least afflicted victim did.

[quip]

38. Prisons don't exist for making better people

They exist to protect society from anti-social people. If bad people can't play well in a society, then they don't get to interact in that society. It's for the good of society.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. for 2 years. after which they come out. then what? if they dont intend to rehabilitate

what do they hope will happen to society once someone is released?

[quip]

46. They paid their for their crime. Hopefully they learned that personal freedom

is more valuable than breaking laws and losing that freedom. Maybe not. Some people aren't too bright. What can you do? If they commit another crime, lock them up again.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. i find your solutions to problems highly simplistic. the kind of simplistic that leads to nothing

being solved and tonnes of people in prison.

[quip]

54. What can I say? I'm a simple man.

:hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

60. i hadnt noticed. nt

[quip]

125. What? No :sarcasm: emoticon?

Because you just got done pointing it out... :shrug:

[Ariana Celeste]

61. agreed

i think a lot of people have too simple a view on prison and jail sentences. and that's not intended as an insult, it's just the truth. if you haven't been there, or don't know many people who have been there (or anyone at all) then you really can't understand what it does to people.

some people go in, and they come out 'good' and stay out of trouble.

but there is a helluva lot of free time when you are locked up. and a helluva lot of bored people. bored people, sitting around, sharing their stories. starts with stories and evolves into tips and tricks learned over the years. hell i taught a group of people how to grow cubensis in your home, and i was only locked up for 2 days. so basically, the vast majority come out of prison and jail with a wealth of knowledge they probably never would have learned if not for their stay. some may choose not to use it. and that's just the people who have short sentences. those with longer sentences are fucked up in a whole different way. locked out of society, having all of their decisions made for them, everything on a rigid schedule, no privacy and very few rules. having to come back into society with nothing but a bus ticket if they are lucky. many without family or friends to help them. how does one cope? some end up homeless. some end up right back where they started. some get lucky.

and many people think, well, they paid for their crimes. and granted i feel that way towards *some* types of crime. violent crimes not in self defense, murder, rape, repeat offenders (of crimes against people)- fucking lock them up man. but the majority of people who are locked up aren't horrible people who deserve their sentences. especially with the whole mandatory minimum bullshit where judges and juries can't even sentence on a case to case basis.

anywho, had no intention on taking this so off topic and i understand this is a celebrity and he will have plenty of money and support and all that so this may not apply to him specifically. i just have a serious problem with the 'justice' system in this country. and i think people take prison and jail sentences far too lightly.

as far as this guy goes, huge fines, a great deal of community service, maybe he should do some time volunteering at animal shelters (under close supervision of course), and i think he should be allowed to go back to his job eventually.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

62. thanks ariana.

:hi:

[Ariana Celeste]

70. no problem

i don't post much these days but i had to reply to your post there ^^

[DarkTirade]

4. It is an epidemic in this country.

Every day millions of monkeys are spanked, chickens are choked, and porpoises are flogged.

[flvegan]

5. Absolute financial ruin, banned from future animal possession.

Jail time.

My suggestion: some folks need more compassion bandwidth, considering some responses I've seen to this case.

[LeftyFingerPop]

7. Fines, jail, no more sports.

What he did was not really different from the taking of human lives. A dog feels pain. They were killed with malice. They were killed not for food, but for the greed of men.

[Wcross]

8. I have nothing in my heart for people like that.

Seriously. A person can be judged by the way they treat other living things. I would really like to see him go to the pound with a jockstrap stuffed with liverwurst but that wasn't one of the options.

[LeftyMom]

9. I think he's a worthless sack of shit, and prison's too good for him.

:grr:

[Midlodemocrat]

21. .

:thumbsup:

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. I hope that he is able to see the error of his ways and turn it around 100%

and do something, via time and/or finances, for animal shelters etc.

Edit: I mean for real, not capitulation or acting. This is an opportunity to transcend the lower urges.

[Tyler Durden]

13. I hope your hopes can be realized....

...I simply do not know.

[Critters2]

106. Not likely. He cleary lacks a basic sense of empathy

for other living creatures. That's not likely to change. You don't buy empathy refills at Wal-Mart.

[Fire Walk With Me]

108. True, and I do not excuse his actions, but...you have to start somewhere.

He may be able to take a moment and wonder if Everyone Else is right about this, and gain some perspective.

[Deep13]

14. Whatever the criminal penalties are...

...and no value judgment from me. Not everyone is sentimentally attached to dogs. They are food animals in some parts of the world. Anyway, I don't think criminal justice is a matter for public opinion.

The sports thing is between him and the company. My own feeling is that if Pete Rose was out forever, maybe this guy should be too. There is no right to be a pro athlete.

[Richard Steele]

15. People treat animals the way they would treat other people, if they could.

I didn't vote for kneecapping. Barely.

[Phillycat]

17. I agree with you. And I DID vote for kneecapping.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. thats not true. i eat animals but woudn't roast my friends if i ran out of meat. nt

[Tyler Durden]

23. Ah, but you used the operative word "FRIENDS."

I wouldn't roast my friends either, but humans like Vick did not see these creatures as his friends: he objectified them and used them for vile entertainment.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. no but i mean i would roast NO human and would roast most animals

that are deemed edible in my culture

which is to say i do not treat animals the same way i do humans

i mean besides vegans i dont think anyone does.

[Tyler Durden]

26. My speculation is this:

We are all containers of the same truth. Life is that truth. If we RESPECT truth we must RESPECT life. You would not roast an animal ALIVE, and you would wish its life ended as painless and without stress as possible.

As I slowly eliminate Meat from my diet, I feel I come closer to the truth of my life that is I do not wish to live at the expense of other feeling and thinking life unless there is no other choice. I seek to be part of the choice.

I think I have reached the point in my life that say, there was an apocalypse and the only thing left was my dogs, that I would not prolong my life at their expense.

[IndianaJones]

19. 6 mos in jail max, probabtion, fine, NFL reinstatement after 2008 season. nt.

[Tyler Durden]

24. Why? Just curious.

It's normal not to feel the same attachments as another person does, but this to me was heinous, and your punishment seems light. I wonder why?

[IndianaJones]

28. Several reasons, many of which have pissed people off.

The main one being that I like Vick and do not think he is a bad person. I don't think he deserves to get kneecapped or executed. I think that losing a huge percentage of his potential lifetime income is punishment enough.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. also there are fundamental differences in cultures and animal rights.

people in india would laugh at american, because of this hue and cry over vick, when we let human kids starve everyday without throwing a fit.

people in pakistan things dogs are dirty.

people in the far east eat dogs.

[IndianaJones]

30. My maternal grandfather ate a dog once a year for health and good luck. Its an excuse to stick...

one more black man in the prison system. Maybe without kneecaps if some kind souls had it their way.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. i tend to agree.

[LeftyMom]

33. That explains a lot about you.

None of it flattering.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. it explains that he has asian descent? yeah, sure is unflattering.

[LeftyMom]

36. No, his callous attitude toward non-human animals.

It's instructive to know where he learned it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. its not callous to just state the truth. cultures have different attitudes towards dogs

might be companion animals here, but is considered food in other parts of the world.

[LeftyMom]

44. He's still got a shitty attitude toward animals, and now we know who he learned it from.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. boy thats very culturally insensitive.

[LeftyMom]

49. Cultural relativism is bullshit.

Some things are just wrong. Animal abuse is one of them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. cultural relativism isnt bullshit. american hegemony over culture is what is bullshit. nt

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. resorting to personal attacks because your argument fails, is so very intelligent.

[IndianaJones]

56. Asians certainly do not make up a large portion of the population. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. nor the middle east where they consider dogs dirty. nor india where dogs are definitely

not deserving of knee breaking.

so what if we populate large parts of the earth

unless white american deem it moral, it aint.

[LeftyMom]

65. And the vast majority of them don't eat dog.

Koreans do. Some Chinese (dog farming in China is more for fur than meat though.) That's about it.

[IndianaJones]

71. since we're off on this tangent, what is wrong with the "some Chinese" and Koreans that eat dogs?nt

[LeftyMom]

75. The eating animals bred to love and trust human beings part isn't enough?

[IndianaJones]

84. many domesticated animals trust human beings and are used as food sources.

what is the difference, other than cultural?

[LeftyMom]

90. Eating them is wrong too. nt

[IndianaJones]

96. But you do seem to attach a difference to it that is strictly cultural.

Do you feel that the meat industry is cruel to the domesticated animals that people consume?

[nam78_two]

117. I think most people who are familiar with the techniques of factory farming would say yes

Do you feel that the meat industry is cruel to the domesticated animals that people consume?

My answer an emphatic yes-there have been many stories broken in just the last couple of years of Pilgrim's pride workers brutally abusing turkeys and chickens before killing them.
Personally, I don't think that because we are talking about animals, the routine cruelty that occurs on factory farms is trivial. People have been eating meat for centuries. But the over the top abuse and poor living conditions that are found on factory farms-that is a relatively new and extremely bad thing imo.

I do wish that got as much attention as Vick.

[quip]

63. So, a culture that believes human sacrifice is okay

is okay with you?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. we sacrifics humans daily and just term it war. nt

[quip]

126. Nice squirm; I don't buy your analogy.

You are playing with semantics, and not addressing the issue. What about cultures that subjugate and oppress women? Are they okay, too?

[IndianaJones]

66. you let the orientals eat dogs today....they'll be eating your kids tomorrow. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

68. and carving your leftover wood. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. Cultural relativism?

Isn't that saying it's OK to kill and eat cows, but not dogs?

[Critters2]

95. Not from me it isn't.

I don't eat animals, and don't believe it's "okay" to do so.

[Critters2]

93. Thank you. Well said. nt

[nam78_two]

122. And there isn't just one type of thinking on animal issues in other cultures either

I am an American, but my parents are Indian and they are two of the strongest supporters of animal rights I have known. And they aren't religious either-they don't even identify themselves as Hindus. So it isn't even accurate to paint it as though, people from other cultures uniformly treat animal issues as minor :shrug:.
Many Indians or those of Indian origin that I know are very strongly supportive of animal rights. It is a big country-lots of very diverse views in there :).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

123. yeah and many more are not. raising dogs was an upper class privilege

and to a large degree still is.

goign to an indian home where the servant is treated worse than the dog, is always particularly bothersome to me.

[nam78_two]

124. I am fairly certain that most of the people I am thinking of would be opposed to that as well

I have never seen any need for mutual exclusivity between supporting human and animal rights. In the scenario you depict, the shitty treatment of the "servant" is the problem and bad in and of itself. It wouldn't make it better if they treated the dog badly as well.

I agree that there are many Indians who would probably be against animal rights. That was my point-that there are many diverse views on that topic there (as is the case here). I certainly remember seeing quite a lot of people on both sides of the argument when the Indian actor Salman Khan was arrested for poaching.

On edit: When I wrote the previous post it wasn't addressing the Vick thing alone-it was more about the attitude towards animals as a whole culturally. Most Indians I know are shocked about the extent of the abuses in factory farms, which imo is one of thoe biggest issues AR activists have to worry about.

[Tyler Durden]

51. As was said in Kipling by the leopard....

"What on earth have you been doing to yourself Zebra? Don't you know if this was the High Veldt I could see you ten miles off? You haven't any form!"

"Ah yes," said the Zebra, "but this ISN'T the High Veldt: do you see?"

Michael Vick is NOT Asian, this is NOT Asia, and he was not EATING these animals: this was torment and killing for entertainment. How would I be received on the streets of Mumbai if I took aside a young calf I had purchased elsewhere for butchering and humanely as I could, slit its throat?

[Phillycat]

69. Thank you! Excellent response, and brings us back on track.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

72. yeah, about michael vick, neither Indiana jones nor i said that he should not be punished

but i think in general there is no need for vengeance.

if you want to cap him in the knee, and really would if give a chance how are you better than vick?

[IndianaJones]

73. lets be honest, whites make those decisions. its why 70% of inmates are minorities.

they even get mad when you form an opinion.

[Tyler Durden]

76. That has nothing to do with it.

I would feel the same if he was from MARS or if he was personally related to me. The ACT is reprehensible, and to excuse it because he is not white (and is upper middle class in background, by the way) is JIM CROW in reverse.

[IndianaJones]

113. Yet for some reason, the culture of my ancestry is the reason I don't support kneecapping Vick. nt.

[Tyler Durden]

118. My personal overreaction has nothing to do with the LAW.

He is now a convicted Federal Felon, soon to be convicted at the state level as well. The penalty for his crime is stipulated, and the sentence issued is within guidelines.

Note that he tried to escape responsibility for his crimes and the only reason he plead guilty was because his partners in crime implicated him as well.

I've seen and helped abused animals. It's very hard after seeing this to excuse anyone for this crime or allow any extenuating circumstances, especially star status or position in society.

Obviously, my desire to extract a kneecap for a tortured life and a killing in pain is not reasonable under the law. Call my desire a "culture of my ancestry" from the Wild West if you like.

[Tyler Durden]

79. NO it would not...And I would hope I was above it.

But why do you wish to excuse him for this behavior? Why do you wish to insinuate racism on my part for feeling that someone who TORTURES animals for ENTERTAINMENT deserves to be punished for these actions?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

80. i am not insinuating racism on YOUR part, i am just saying you should

contemplate that cultural differences are very real in the way you view what a dog is and its meaning to you.

if you view a dog as a much lesser creature who serves to entertain/serve you as some cultures do, you could understand this.

also i dont think the race thing started with you. it started with someone making a culturally insensitve comment to IJ.

pri

[Tyler Durden]

87. What injures one, injures all.

If a black man said something to IJ, then the word "N****r" is permissible? I don't see that.

You're of Indian extraction, correct? How can you see this as anything less than an abomination? Besides any issue, it's illegal, and if prison doesn't make you a better person, then don't do things that will send you there.

[Critters2]

91. They're living, feeling creatures

no matter what continent they're on.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

101. ok. so do you think all meat eaters shoudl be imprisoned?

[Critters2]

103. If I had my way, those who torture animals in factory farms

and those who murder them in slaughterhouses would be.

[Tyler Durden]

40. Guess I'm judging more by his actions here.

It's not possible for me to see someone who buys and and breeds animals to abuse and torture them for entertainment as a "good person" in any way shape or form, so I guess that's the point where we differ.

This isn't in my mind an "OOPS, I've made a mistake..." this is a pattern of abuse.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. its a oops i dont believe what you believe about dogs.

[Tyler Durden]

55. I do hope you do not believe in torturing animals for sport.

That IS what this is about, isn't it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. i think it shifted to his grandfather eating dogs, my point was that what a dog means

differs culturally.

[Tyler Durden]

97. I understand what you're saying....

However: in this day and age, is it permissible to kill sloth bears, an extremely endangered animal, because traditional Chinese medicine holds that their gall bladders, dried and powered, restore virility?

Or that to be a man in some Arab cultures requires owning a knife with the polished horn of a rhinoceros for a hilt?

The world has changed and may, thank the gods, one day become ONE. We will need a higher respect for life for that to work.

[IndianaJones]

58. what is your opinion of horse and dog racing? nt.

[Tyler Durden]

81. Stupid, abusive, and legal.

I wish it wasn't. You don't know many greyhounds, do you? Gentle, sweet, obedient.

Why do you think they RUN? It's to please a handler, not to chase some metal rabbit. That's a pacing device.

The animals we have lived with as helpers and companions sometimes go as far as to give their lives for us. I think that earns them a little more than being pitted in fights to the death, with hanging, drowning or electrocution as their reward for NOT being vicious enough.

[Tyler Durden]

74. If you were Hindu, I would respect how you felt about cows.

If you were Muslim, I wouldn't even cook ribs at the same time you were in my house.

Plus, this about abuse, torture and killing. It shouldn't matter how you feel about them: I don't even eat SHELLFISH that's boiled while alive.

Is this something to do with Michael Vick PERSONALLY? A highly paid football star that gets his kicks torturing what most people in the United States, Europe, and South America considers a "companion?"

Or do you have something against DOGS personally?

Any of these can be valid, I guess. Hard to understand, but valid.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

78. i am not saying we should give him a pass. all i am saying is that

1. imprisonment has many negative consequences. onwe should be critical about harsh prison sentences unless it really makes a huge difference to society.

2. we should be culturally sensitive and least make an effort to understand that just because we believe that a dog is pet, doesnt mean everyone does.

i dont think i am being unreasonable.

[Tyler Durden]

83. In other words, if what I feel should not be a FELONY

Punishable by jail time in every state should be LEGAL and OK because it is in my CULTURE to believe so...then it should be legal.

Such as:

Honor Killings
Female Circumcision
Cutting off the hands of thieves
Beheading for adultery
200 lashes for being gang raped

Yes, these are against humans, but Michael Vick is NOT from "The Hood," he is NOT from the hills or the ghettos. He has NO CULTURAL EXCUSE FOR THIS. And some cultural excuses like clubbing baby seals, whaling, killing polar bears, "ratting" terriers, "baiting" bears, etc. are OUT OF DATE and should also be illegal as some already are.

For everything there is a season; the season for animal abuse for sport has passed.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

85. i think the severity of the crime does not merit having knee caps bashed in.

that is all. nor do i think it needs a prison sentence.

had he physically hurt a human i would think so.

[Tyler Durden]

98. And as I said, I hope that I would not do such a thing....

...but I have lived with dogs my entire life. This changes your attitude if ever it was different in the first place.

And as to his CRIME, that is the PUNISHMENT declared by law (Prison and fines). What you or I think he needs on one end of the spectrum or another is immaterial. Personally? I think he should consider himself fortunate. With good behavior, it is doubtful that he will serve more than 12-14 months, and with his "Star" status, his chances of being hurt or coming out as a car thief are infinitesimal. More than he deserves say you, less say I.

[Tyler Durden]

109. I would say that he should be banned from sports.

His high income from football made his criminal enterprise possible. I think he should be prevented from having the ability to exert that kind of control ever again.

[stuntcat]

27. my opinion will probably only piss people off :)

but with humans about to reach 7 billion I think a LOT more crimes should be punished with execution, especially stuff as awful as this.

[Tyler Durden]

121. Not me.

When someone shows themselves to be a brutal criminal, they lower themselves on the scale of how much air I think they should breath.

As someone else said, it's a damned good thing I'm not in charge. Poor Pibble. I have to go home and hug my dogs now.

[huskerlaw]

32. Prison time at Casa de Flvegan

I say the cops sentence Vick to hard time at the hands of Flvegan. Flvegan would be free to inflict whatever punishment and/or rehabilitation he deem necessary and proper. The cops would, of course, look the other way.

[LeftyMom]

35. Hell fucking no.

His dogs have been through quite enough.

And my anger management isn't that good. Putting that asshole where I know how to find him? Bad idea.

[huskerlaw]

37. But that's the beauty part...

the cops are looking the other way. Your anger management doesn't need to be good.

And the dogs don't ever have to see Vick.

I just think you and flvegan are more equipped than our justice system to give that fucker what he truly deserves.

[Highway61]

42. Animals feel pain

Abuse of an animal is sick, demented behavior. I have no pity for anyone who engages in such and gets handed a harsh sentence.

edit: spelling

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Big fine, no jail time.

Your SO sounds like Vick.

[NoPasaran]

82. Bullet in the back of the head

[Perry Logan]

89. Not painful enough.

[Tyler Durden]

111. I think I'd let him keep the cash and not go to jail if he took the kneecapping.

That would remind him with every step for the rest of his life what he had done to living creatures, what pain and suffering he had inflicted.

[NoPasaran]

115. What can I say? I'm an old-fashioned bleeding-heart liberal

[flvegan]

88. I wish I had put money on this thread going flamey.

Dammit.

[Perry Logan]

92. Isn't it kinda flamey to call a thread flamey?

[flvegan]

94. Are you calling me out, Bucko?!

You flaming my flaming is gonna get this started all over.

[Taverner]

105. Personally, something that would stop him from doing it again

Whatever that might be...

I don't believe in revenge - I only believe in deterrents. That's why I'm against the DP.

[Mutley]

114. When a person murders another person, that person goes to jail.

For a long time. This issue has been debated many times on DU, but what makes a human life worth more than an animal's life? Animals feel joy and happiness and sorrow and pain just like we do. They are only considered inferior because they can't build houses or do calculus. And <unnamed deity of your choice> help the human race if they ever figure it out.

Why shouldn't someone who tortures and murders animals get at least a fraction of the sentence a murderer of humans would get? Were I in charge of this world, this man would get (as well as anyone who murders humans) jail time, fines, community service, kneecapping -- the works. I suppose we can all agree it's a good thing I'm not in charge.

[Inchworm]

120. It should be settled out of court

By a militant animal rights organization located in an undisclosed compound outside an unknown village in some country.

x(

[Tyler Durden]

129. Ouch. What a good idea!

No, not really. A fly learns nothing if he's swatted.

A few days in a sweatbox from "The Bridge On The River Qwai" set would do.

[Tektonik]

127. I believe the jail sentence is about right

Also he should subsequently be put on a long probation sentence and be fined a large sum of money. I find it a bit alarming that many here would put him in prison for such a long time. I personally feel he's being targeted because of his celebrity/race and this would not be such an issue if it was not Michael Vick.

[TexasBushwhacker]

128. It's not just about animal abuse

Where's there are dog fights, there is gambling, and where there's gambling, there's often organized crime of some sort. This was about way more than just animal abuse, and that's why they threw the book at him.

[SPKrazy]

130. treated almost as harshly as child abusers