How do you deal with being proselytized to by people you care about?

[idgiehkt]

I mean *you* specifically, what would come into your head to say back to them?. Not people you can tell to 'buzz off' in a rude manner, but people that you know do not have malicious intent. How do you tell people civily that it is not appropriate.

[KitchenWitch]

1. Basically I tell them that I have my own relationship with God

And thank them for their concern.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. Additionally I say, "Trust God and me to work things out"

[Generic Brad]

2. I put up with it for over 40 years before I finally tell them to "f" off

Now I no longer have to hold my tongue or be worried about coming off as rude. When given the option of "convert or you are dead to me" I will choose dead to me every time.

[idgiehkt]

3. lol

I am almost 40 so maybe that is the tipping point. I don't get the 'dead to me' thing, I get the 'you poor, misguided heathen' kindly condescension. I am sad about a pet of mine that has disappeared and am not in the best frame of mine to deal with it today.

[Generic Brad]

4. Well, if you do reach your tipping point...

You can enjoy an even better holiday dinner with friends. I'm off to do that just now. I have my homemade dressing, pumpkin pie, and sweet potatoes to bring. Have a good dinner!
:hi:

[zingaro]

5. By people I care about?

OK I am assuming this means people you would be fairly comfortable saying something like "you know, I am glad you have found something in your life that works for you. I feel lucky that I've done the same. I love you and I would really appreciate it if you could respect the choices that I make in the same way I respect the ones you've made." If you say it while touching an arm or a hand, and smiling, I bet you could make it go a long way.

The problem for me is the people I *don't* so much care about like, say, my in-laws who are real preachers. With them I just keep the mouth shut. I see them about once every two or three years for a few hours, so it's just not worth it for me to do anything else. I think they're incredibly disrespectful but I also know that they do not walk the walk of the faith they preach so their hypocritical drivel means nothing to me.

I understand and share that magic *40* line. The Bullshit Tolerance just sort of disintegrates. It's kind of nice, especially since the whole first 40 years of my life was all about keeping everyone else happy and even-keeled. Now? Eh...let 'em deal with their own crap. I try hard not to take extra crap on now. It's totally refreshing lol

I'm sorry about your pet, btw. :hug:

[idgiehkt]

7. that is beautiful

"you know, I am glad you have found something in your life that works for you. I feel lucky that I've done the same. I love you and I would really appreciate it if you could respect the choices that I make in the same way I respect the ones you've made."

thanks.

[Chovexani]

40. LOL, I hit that line at age 20

Gods help my fundie relatives when I get to be 40. :rofl:

[zingaro]

41. I can guarantee you that my life would be SO

very different if I'd hit the line at 20. I mean like diametrically opposed to what it is now. I lived an amazingly repressed yes-woman smile-and-nod sort of life up until very very recently. Had that not been the case, so many things would be so very different that I am quite sure I wouldn't recognize myself or my own life.

I love people who never take shit. I had to really draw some real alpha females into my life as role models to learn how it works. Do you have strong female role models in your own life or is it just not in your nature to take crap? I wonder about this because I think it was really driven into me my my mom.

:)

[Chovexani]

43. I had extremely strong female role models growing up

My grandma, my mom, my aunts, my older sister...never took shit from anyone (especially men!) and drilled this into me from a young age. I was really lucky to have that kind of influence.

So I think in my case it was a mix of nature and nurture. :)

[Deja Q]

6. I don't sleep with my relatives, no matter how much money they offer.

:hide:

[Emit]

8. This situation reared its ugly head just this week.

I posted on it here in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2305955

Really caught me off guard, as you'll see on that thread that my fundie nephew selfishly attempted to undermine my grandmother's funeral services with his proselytizing.

I followed my gut this time, and did not pursue any further discussion with him during the service or since this call. He did attend the service, but he and his wife were obviously uncomfortable, and refused to even sing any of the hymns that the Bishop lead us all in. This was very telling, as my nephew's wife is a singer, and prides herself on singing gospel. As the Bishop and others who spoke at my grandma's services ended their comments, they always added, "I say this in the name of our Saviour, Jesus Christ..." as is common in their church. I tried to catch my nephew's response, but he was sitting too far away for me to see his expression. I can only imagine that it threw him for a loop.

Anyway, as I noted on my thread above, I will, in the future, be more assertive in my discussions with him. As I wrote in that thread: "... To this point, I have avoided religious discussion with him like it's the plague. It has been easier that way -- frankly, I have just wanted to avoid confrontation. But, I'm not so sure that has been so wise on my part. After this incident tonight, I foresee at some time in the future (I wouldn't do it now, of course, out of respect for my Grandmother and all) that I might be bolder in my conversations with him. It seems my silence with him on this subject has lead him to believe that I approve of his fundamentalism, when in fact, I feel that it has been very harmful for him and his family. I won't seek out confrontation, mind you, but I will not remain silent about my concerns. I hate talking religion with religious people who quote scripture and all. It doesn't suit me -- I have such a lack of knowledge of the bible (even though I own several) that when my teenager needed biblical references for an English paper she was writing, I went out and bought the "Bible for Dummies"! No joke. I just want him to know that I am concerned about his intense religiosity -- I don't want to argue religion with him..."


edited typo

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. "If you loved me, you'd respect my beliefs as I respect yours."

[Emit]

10. I tried that one with my nephew.

See post #8 above and the accompanying link.

His response?

His is not a religion or a belief, even. His is "The Truth."

Left me nowhere to go, really.

He even tried to argue that his "truth" is based on logic, not belief or faith. :crazy:

[idgiehkt]

11. oh yes, I've dealt with that too

despite the fact that the person in question, my younger brother, had this revelation during a particularly bad acid trip. He even made the assertion that the bible has been ripped to shreds over and over throughout history yet has never had a single statement in it proved to be false. :crazy: indeed.

[Emit]

17. Oh, yes, that sounds familiar.

My nephew repeatedly said that if I just studied the scriptures, every day, that I would come to realize "the truth." I said that the bible is a man-made book, and that other religions have their sacred books ... their "truth", if you will ... as well. And that we should respect those beliefs as we would want others to respect ours. I got the same response: The bible, his bible, has never had a single statement in it proved to be false ... and, again, his is not a religion, but the truth, and all others who profess a belief or religion different than his are false, evil even, and those who follow all but his beleifs are unbelievers and will go to hell.

When one believes his is the truth, it pretty much leaves any persuasion or rational discussion mute. His is the truth. All else aren't. Period.

Arrgh! :mad:

[TrogL]

21. so the mention in Kings that pi * 10 = 30 is what?

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/bibquote.html

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. If they will then not respect you, just say "Kthxbai" and let it go.

And if they won't let it go, alert the Spanish Inquisition, who shall place them in The Comfy Chair.

[Emit]

18. "OK, thank you, goodbye".

That's pretty much how my last conversation ended. I just couldn't do it anymore. Talk in circles, that is. And I was deeply offended at the timing of this, because it was right after my grandma died, right before her Mormon service. So I just said, "OK, thanks, goodbye." Actually, I don't recall saying thanks. I may have just said, "OK, bye." Yes. That's what I said.

As to your second piece of advice, I will store that for safe keeping -- a thought tactic for coping next time. :)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. a good come back to the "truth" --

one truth, many paths.

Hope this helps.

[idgiehkt]

35. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving

that is my philosophy as well. It doesn't translate into fundie-speak, but that is what I believe. :hi:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

36. True. When dealing with fundies, I have found that I must love

the player, in spite of the game. Shine them on-- so to speak;)

[billyskank]

13. Tough one

If you care about them, then they're probably nice people. If they're nice people then they probably really think they're helping you. That said, you don't want to have to sit through it. I don't know what I would do.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. i let my dad proselytize me to kingdom come. everybody else gets a fairly bitchy comeback

yes, i know they dont mean to hurt me but they should respect my wishes if they expect me to respect theirs

[ThomCat]

15. That's a tough one.

I don't have that issue, so I don't know how I'd handle it.

I hope you can find a good answer. :)

[Aristus]

16. A nurse I work with is a progressive Democrat AND an evangelical Christian.

Feature that.

Anyway, she's always proselytizing to me and others, (I'm already a Christian) and it gets a little annoying. She's a wonderful sweet woman, so I try to go easy on her when she gets wound up. Her politics are comfortably to the left, but she still goes on about the End Times and whatnot. My own attitude is borrowed from Jesus, who said: "Let tomorrow take care of tomorrow."

In others words, today, let us feed the hungry, heal the sick, shelter the cold, and give hope to those in despair. Nevermind the End Times...

[China_cat]

19. My middle son has MS and has recently fallen into the hands

of dominionists. I don't have to worry about it. He's been warned that he'll end up in hell if he ever communicates with me again.

[ghostsofgiants]

20. I have to deal with it just about every time I see my grandparents.

I just smile and nod.

[idgiehkt]

22. I think that is the best tactic sometimes.

I know when I tried to deal with it in another situation recently, everything I could think of to say seemed to have the potential to lead down the road into an argument. :hi:

[ghostsofgiants]

23. I just don't want them to disown me.

:P

[Haole Girl]

24. That's a tough one

People pretty much know not to preach to me.

Hope you're feeling better! :hug: :hi:

[idgiehkt]

26. oh wow

your posts always make me think of L7 songs. :)
Thanks, it's been a rough day, just way too many people and a bit of tension, plus my sister-in-law is in the beginnings of labor (again) and the animals were all acting out so it was a rough. It is just about over and I am so glad.

Anyway, "Mr. Integrity":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq3xCaGbo00

Mr. integrity
I'm not the enemy
Please don't preach to me
Mr. integrity

Don't Preach To Me!!!

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[TrogL]

25. I've simply made it absolutely clear

that I will not tolerate the first word of that conversation.

These are zero-sum people - black and white thinkers. For them to deviate from their way of thinking would such a catastrophic event that suicide would be preferable.

You cannot 'win' an argument or discussion with them because cannot have a formal argument or coherent discussion with them. They simply do not have the tools. They cannot support their position. They lack the mental skills to follow a discussion supporting your position or disproving their position or even supporting their position. You could easily bring forward an argument that actually supports their position, but because it isn't worded in exactly the nomenclature they are used to hearing, they will deny it to your face.

Them: The sky is blue
You: Yes, it resembles the colour of a robin's egg.
Them: (screaming) No it doesn't, it's blue. It has to be blue. It's blue because it's blue. How could you possibly say anything different.

If they care about you, a simple explanation that it upsets you should be enough. If they continue, they've pretty much proven they don't care (zero-sum game). Cry havoc.

For ammunition, see my website.

[xmas74]

27. Just nod your head, smile

and make it obvious that you haven't heard a single bit of what they are saying and that you have no plans to hear any more of it. The next step to disengage them from pitbull mode and into something a bit calmer. (ie. "Did you see the Packer game today?" or "Wait 'til you see Sally's newest picture! She's in the first grade now and is as sweet as can be and so smart too." )

I firmly believe in never discussing sex, religion or politics at a mixed family event. There is a time and a place for each type of discussion-I prefer those discussions to be in smaller groups with no children around or those who are easily excited.

Come to think of it, you could say just that and say it loud enough for everyone in the room to hear it. You could say something like "I really admire you for having such strong beliefs and wanting to share them but today is a family event. Each person here believes a bit differently and I'd hate to have someone become upset. Let's make today a day in which we don't discuss religion or politics and instead find subjects that everyone can discuss."

If they refuse to follow that rule tell them, loud enough for everyone to hear, that you're disappointed that they don't respect anyone in the room enough to comply with one simple request that was made. Then walk away and ignore them.

(just for the record: I am a Christian but nothing annoys me more than those who proselytize. Well, that and those who stop their vehicles in the middle of the intersection once the red light hits, purposely blocking the intersection and not allowing traffic to pass from the other sides just so that person can be 20 feet further than they would be if they had stopped behind the line at the light. Those are the two things that annoy me the most.)

[Gormy Cuss]

28. I tell them that it's kind of them to offer,

but presumptuous because if I wanted to join their faith, they'd be the first people that I would ask. I haven't asked, therefore one may take that as a sign that I'm not interested.

[idgiehkt]

30. Thanks everyone for your input

I have been reading these replies off and on as I had time, I really appreciate it. I know this situation with my brother will come up from time to time and I want to handle it in a way that doesn't do any more damage because he is my baby brother and we were really close growing up.

Today went well otherwise, his wife was having contractions so he was distracted. The only controversial topic that came up and got rather heated was circumcision (one of the guests was a family friend who is British and is vehemently against it, my sister in law is going to have the new baby circumcised because of her younger brother getting some kind of horrible infection from not being circumcized as an infant...well, they were off to the races on that one until my sister jumped in and said 'let's not discuss it further'). I have to say it was an odd family dinner, the first time we've ever had things like mucus plugs and smegma brought up in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner.

:rofl:

I hope everyone else had a great Thanksgiving as well.

[porphyrian]

31. People I care about care enough about me not to proselytize to me. -n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

33. I realize I cannot have a rational discussion with them, and cut them out of my life.

Period. Discussions are a waste of breath and energy.

[deucemagnet]

34. Honestly?

The first thing to come into my head would be, "Fuck you", but I'd probably settle for something equally as rude, but less vulgar. All of my relatives know what my attitude towards religion is, and know what to expect if the broach the subject. I'd hate to disappoint them. :evilgrin:

[Neshanic]

37. You listen, and listen and listen, then when you decide to tell them

you are gay, they tell you not to talk to them again, as you are Hell bound.

Best friend for twenty years. He was assimilated by a mega church when on an extended business project over three months. Came back, quit his job, went to fundy cult bible school, and then starts to run another mega church with a creepy dude in San Diego. He would not stop talking about what I needed to do according to him. I listened as much as I could, but at the time was coming to grips with who I was.

I told him, and that was the end of it. He said I had Satan inside me. He and I never spoke again...going on seven years.

[Inchworm]

38. get them to tell stories

and look at it as just people in stories who are good. Then you can compare the people to other humans you may know.

Worked for me all this time and I can remember many of the stories still.

:hi:

[Skittles]

39. I tell them to shut the fuck up

I don't care how much I "care" about them

[LuckyLib]

42. Haven't had the pleasure. But I will do a verbal variation of the sign next to my doorbell:

NO Solicitors, religious or otherwise. We are happy just the way we are. If that changes, we'll call you.

[hunter]

44. In my family we all talk to God, some of us more than others.

It drives the black-and-white thinkers nuts.

Don't tell them to "buzz off," tell them you are praying for them to find some kind of Peace...

As a kid I noticed that nobody ever tried to argue religion with my mom because they weren't quite sure if she was simply crazy or actually having conversations with God.

She's probably crazy, but she knows her Bible.

If your own spiritual beliefs are solid (and even atheists have spiritual or ethical beliefs of some sort) then nobody is going to argue with you. When you get to the bottom of it, it's the fundamentalist evangelicals who often have the shakier faith, that's why they must be fundamentalists and exclude the messier questions each of us face every single day.

How did we get here? You have a very complex scientific answer -- evolution and all that -- and a Biblical answer that can't be anything but a metaphor -- God shaped us out of dirt. It take an astonishingly simplistic kind of thinking to believe that God actually did make us out of dirt, and that we are something entirely separate from all the other creatures on this earth, in spite of the fact that as biological systems we are essentially identical to all the other mammals, with only slight variations in how we are put together.

I have people who proselytize in my family, but they leave me alone. My minor in college was evolutionary biology, they know that, and I make my support for gay marriage very clear whenever the topic comes up. I know where I stand, and my footing is firm.