Great! Just Great! He "said" he found a pair of glasses that does no belong to him...

[Lady Freedom]

in the living room when he got home. He said so in such a harsh way. How should I know who they belong to? They probably came from that covenant store where he worked. he Probably picked up that one (now ex) co-workers glasses again and forgot to take them back. I even said this to him. He said their not. And now he is mad at me because of those darn glasses that I never seen. I sweep and mopped the kitchen, repaired the vac so I could vacuumed the living room,clean the ceiling fan, cleaned the lampshade in the living room, and sweep down cob webs. He didn't even say "Good Job". :cry:

[mainegreen]

1. Hes a complete jackass and one day you'll consider yourself lucky

that you dodged this particular bullet.
Damned lucky.
He sounds like an ass.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Haven't you tossed this asshole out the door yet?

Please! Don't lift another finger cleaning for this dickhead, since no matter what you do it won't be good enough. Put all his stuff in garbage bags and toss them on the front lawn, then change the locks.

[Deep13]

37. see post 36

[MissHoneychurch]

3. Kick him out!!!

NOW!!

Don't wait a minute longer. He is just making you miserable. YOU ARE WORTH A LOT MORE!!!!!! He doesn't deserve you.

[Deep13]

36. Based on what?

He's not violent. There's no restraining order, eviction order or anything else. Unhappy women do not have a right to make men homeless just because they want to. Also, this has nothing to do with property rights (i.e. whoever pays the rent, has his or her name on the lease or deed etc.)

I'm on team Lady Freedom here, but there is no right to "kick him out."

[REP]

48. You're right. She should wait until he turns violent to protect herself from violence.

Because the poor widdle man - who's an absusive fuck - might have to find a smaller apartment without her income. :cry:











:sarcasm:
like I really needed to clear that up

[Deep13]

63. You need a court order for an eviction.

Most men are not violent, so the law will not presume it.

[China_cat]

49. Do you even have the slightest idea of how offensive your

post is to those of us who have lived through this and know what's coming?

There is EVERY right to kick him out, change the locks, buy a vicious pitbull AND a shotgun. Not only a right, but a need.

[Deep13]

64. "There is EVERY right to kick him out, ..."

Do you have case law to support that? What about a statutory reference? I'm not making this shit up. There is no inherent authority for women to kick out men.

I don't really care if it sounds offensive or not. It is true and that is all that matters. I'm sorry that your cultural prejudice does not agree with reality. Frankly, the asumption that the man must be an asshole and deserving of everything he gets while the woman is an innocent and powerless victim is degrading to both.
Just because a woman is pissed off does not mean the law no longer applies.
We she to do what you suggest, he would be justified in breaking back into his own home, holding her responsible for the damage, and then use the shotgun to shoot the dog. If she threatens him with the gun, he will have cause for a restraining order or prosecution.

[China_cat]

68. Do you have case law to support that?

It's called the Violence Against Women Act. And yes, verbal and emotional abuse IS violence.


BTW, I'm taking it that you wouldn't raise a finger to type the same kind of response if HE was throwing her out. At least, that's the impression you give...the MAN is the only one who matters, no matter what.

[Deep13]

69. I did not give you that impression. You let your anger assume it.

Your ad hominum reaction is not justified. I have always been a feminist, but not a vigilante. The law is gender-nuetral and does not favor self help in any situation. If there are grounds to exclude him, it must be a court that issues the order. I know from extensive practice in Ohio's divorce courts that there is a distinction between verbal and emotional "abuse" on one hand and violence, including threats of violence, on the other.

When seeking to exclude the other spouse on the grounds of verbal abuse, I usually get an eyeroll from the judge. Only testimony that the applicant is being physically threatened will exclude the other resident. I saw a (female) magistrate hold my client (the unmarried mother) in contempt because she withheld visitation of the child from the father when there was photographic evidence of child abuse resulting from the visitation (a hand-shaped bruise). The reason? The hearing was for enforcement of visitation on the father's motion and not a hearing to stop visitation on the mother's.

When I have represented men and they tell me that the wife kicked them out, I told them to move back in if they wanted any chance at dual custody of the children. I also told them not to do ANYTHING that could be CONSIDERED violent. One of my clients got chucked out by the police because while gesticulating, the tip of his finger brushed against her eyeglass lens. Even know the law requires intent to cause harm, the judge still signed the order.

I am not giving any legal advice on this thread, I am just concerned that L.F. will listen to one of you and get herself into legal trouble because of it.

[China_cat]

73. You certainlly have given that impression.

And even here you give the impression that your outrage is that men are losing the right to be bullies, not that they are being held to account for their violence.

[Deep13]

79. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think LF has complained of any violence.

And you have totally misjudged me. Of course that is what happens when your mind is made up ahead of time.

[krispos42]

76. Offensive or not, he's right

I'm not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

:-)

Okay, I watch "Cops" regularly, and I've seen what Deep13 is talking about a lot. Person A and Person B live in the same residence legally. A and B have a verbal fight. Police show up. Person A demands that Person B packs up and leave. Police have to explain to Person A that they can't make person B leave because they can't make Person B leave Person B's own home. And that the homeowner or renter needs to get an eviction order to prod an unwilling person out of the house.

Usually they persuade either Person A or Person B to spend the night at a friend or neighbor's house to let tempers cool off.

When a person "kicks out" somebody, the person that is getting "kicked out" is leaving voluntarily out of anger or guilt or appeasement.

Of course, if they're evidence of physical abuse, Officer Friendly drags Person A or Person B off to the local lockup on domestic-abuse charges.

[Lyric]

57. Like hell there isn't.

If he has even so much as *verbally* abused her, she has *every* right to kick his ass to the curb. She isn't the one "making him homeless", he made his OWN self homeless by acting like a complete fucking ass. This is the Really Real World, and you don't get to treat someone like crap 24/7 and expect to remain living with them. If he was truly concerned with his living situation, he would be making an effort to preserve civility, not acting like this.

Quit defending this emotionally abusive jerk's right to live with Lady Freedom. That right does not exist, no matter how you spin it.

[Deep13]

65. Your whole analysis is wrong.

Evicting someone from his or her home is making that person homeless. Being a complete fucking ass is not grounds for an eviction. His subjective concern is irrelevent. Only a restraining order or a court judgment can do that.

This is first year law school stuff. The law presumes status quo. Since they are not married, the only issue here is the property right in the home. If it is her lease or deed, then she has grounds for eviction. It is still a legal matter for the court nonetheless. Subjective outrage, however justified, is not a basis to change that.

Both parties are adults here. Violence, including threats, are a basis for a restraining order. What you call verbal abuse is not if it is not threatening.

[Inchworm]

114. You Sir, are wrong

Should she wear a big scarlet "S" on her shirt when seen out in public? How about a sign that she has to carry that reads,

"I AM CONSTANTLY BELITTLED BY A MAN AND I STILL LET HIM STAY IN MY HOME"

Fuck that.. life is too short. Perhaps the guy will find him a servant girl to spend his life with once hes out.

:(

[Starbucks Anarchist]

4. Can I come over and kick this guy in the balls?

:mad:

[MissHoneychurch]

6. Please put extra force into your kick

pretty please?

:hi:

[MissMillie]

5. you're not going to please him

it's not possible

don't let his behavior make you feel badly about yourself.

[AllegroRondo]

7. He's a total ass

and he's doing this to try to push the 'blame' of the breakup onto you.

You're much better off without him.
:hug:

on edit -
I see you're in Joplin. Need me to get a couple ex-army buddies over there to straighten him out?

[Lady Freedom]

9. Army vs. Marin? Sounds like fun!

:popcorn:

[DS1]

19. yeah, he'd better send 3 or 4

just to make it fair :D

[BarenakedLady]

8. Stop letting him make you feel bad.

Only you can control your reactions. He is trying to upset you and blame you for things to assuage his own guilt or justify his leaving you. I know it is hard to change your thoughts after years of his mental abuse, but try to listen to the good advice you have been getting from the good people of the Lounge. Quiet your own negative mental voice with a positive one. You deserve better. You are a good person. Repeat those two sentences to yourself to drown out the others.

I wish you well.

:hug:

[Highway61]

10. Been there

Bag up his shit in garbage bags while he is out, put at the curb and change the locks and pull down all the shades/blinds.
As for you...stop rationalizing. You tend to do that as I did and FINALLY.....ding ding ding...the bells went off. I wasted two years with the same kind of dickhead....(maybe he is the same person...yikes!) and then spent time ALONE and figured out why I was attracted to this type of loser. After a while you learn to not only like yourself but LOVE yourself...as it should be. Then and only then, will you find yourself in a healthy loving relationship....and believe me, it WILL happen. I met the greatest guy and now were married and we both are sooooo happy. The only thing I really regret was wasting my time with "the loser".
Good luck sweetie....and remember it is NOT you who is doing anything wrong here. :hug:

[WolverineDG]

11. He is ratcheting up

You need to get your things together & get out NOW! Start taking your things out to your parent's house or to a friend's, somewhere, ANYWHERE BUT THERE. Get the number of the women's shelter. Call the cops to get it if you have to, or your university's counseling office.

Accusations of infidelity on top of all the other stuff he has been doing to you mean only one thing to me: he is getting ready to be physically abusive.

Check your pm. I'm sending you my phone #.

dg

[Quakerfriend]

13. Ditto that. Please, leave NOW.

You will survive this.:hug:

[Lady Freedom]

15. I think that him not coming out and saying what he was hedging around...

was what hurt the worse.

[WolverineDG]

25. And if he is, so what?

Good riddance, in my book. If he's got a new toy to play with, he'll leave you alone.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but you've got to put yourself FIRST, and you've got to do it NOW. This guy is a loser. L.O.S.E.R. He's been playing mind games with you, tearing down your self-respect to the point you are at now. If he'd tried this bullshit earlier in your relationship, you'd have shown him the door pronto. You're now going to have to get your self-respect back & pronto.

Wake up & smell the coffee. He's playing on your fear of being "alone." Call his bluff. You are NOT alone. There is one DUer in your town who's offered to bring his army buddies over for a play date. There's everyone who's responded to all your threads on this subject. There are your pets (they count!) and your parents. You don't need him. Period.

We can give you all the advice in the world; it is up to you to take it. The first step is always a doozy, but once you've done that, it gets a lot easier.

From my experience, you are lucky to find this out about him now. I have clients who've spent years, decades with abusive assholes "because of the children." You don't have kids with him (thank god for small favors), you aren't married to him. He hasn't hit you (yet). Get your stuff together & out of the apartment today. Call me. I sent you my number.

dg

[Whoa_Nelly]

22. Wolverine is correct

As you head toward the "break-up date" of Dec. 1, things will only get worse.

All you have written about this guy are indicators of the cycle toward physical abuse.

Get your stuff packed

do not give/leave him anything back that was a gift, that you paid for, or otherwise is not his.

Take photos of the rental right before you exit. You do have the right to have a police officer present if you feel threatened or uncomfortable in any way. The officer, (or have a close friend be with you when you leave), can be witness to the condition in which you left the place. Also, having someone present will help prevent him from cycling up.

Please read that link I sent you re: Patricia Evans and the Verbally Abusive Relationship.

Get out today. Please don't wait. :hug:

[Midlodemocrat]

12. KICK HIM OUT!!!! TODAY!!!!

[wicket]

28. YES!!!!

[Vanje]

14. Who cares what he thinks

THat dude is already gone!

[supernova]

16. Oh, I'm dyin' to PUNCH this guy

and I don't even know him.

:grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr:

KICK HIS ASS OUT NOW.

You are a good woman Lady Freedom. :hug:

[Arugula Latte]

17. Please get rid of that idiot NOW!!!

:grr:

He is SCUM. You are BETTER than he is. He doesn't deserve YOU.

Kick his sorry ass to the curb!

[Deep13]

38. See post 36.

[Lyric]

58. See post 57.

[guitar man]

18. throw...his....ass....out nt

[Deep13]

39. See post 36.

[Lyric]

59. See post 57.

[Whoa_Nelly]

20. He's setting you up

Get your stuff packed and get out of there

[Writer]

21. You give this jackass way too much power over you.

Channel your anger into making arrangements for the glorious time following his departure.

:hug:

~Writer~

[DarkTirade]

23. Either you or he needs to leave. This is not healthy.

And I'd suggest it be him that leaves.

[LanternWaste]

24. Might I just say (for what it's worth)

Might I just say (for what it's worth) something my best friend told me after I was the victim of a rather ugly break-up sometime ago...

"It's so much better to be miserable because you're alone than it is to be miserable because you're with someone"

To me, those words are on par with Gandhi, John Locke, Jean-Paul Sartre and Rene Descartes all rolled into one absolute.

They were my glasses, by the way... :)

[Phillycat]

26. I have never understood why I get so angry with people who insist on victimizing themselves

But I am furious with you right now. You can't possibly be as stupid or as passive as you seem on these threads. Why do you post them if you're not going to take anything anyone says into consideration? It's so freaking annoying! Do you think we're just going to offer you bland, vague support? Why would we do that? So we can wait for the day when Lady Freedom just stops posting because her abusive boyfriend beat her until she had a brain hemmorhage?

Jesus Christ! Stop fucking posting about it! Get off the computer and do something with your life before you wind up dead.

[DS1]

30. It's not like the first time someone has been on DU

complaining about something they refuse to change and totally ignoring advice.

It is? Some snaps with your tea?

[GCP]

35. What Janesez sez!

I'm going to sound like a puke here - but if you don't change anything after all the good advice you've been given here - there'll be only one person to blame when the shit starts hitting the fan.

[Whoa_Nelly]

47. Same here--still have empathy, but begin to lose the sympathy when

the person seems to seek only sympathy, but is unwilling to act on thier own behalf.

That said, having been where she is, it can be very difficult to take action when caught up in the drama that is happening.

Lots of great advice given here from those who have seen or lived through this type of abuse firsthand. Sure hope she sees/understands that no matter what she does to "please" this guy, he is showing the hallmarks of ratcheting up in the abuse cycle, and she really needs to act FOR herself, and worry later about him, (if she thinks it's worth it after all is said and done.)

The longer she's a player in his game, the longer it's her game, too.

Symptoms of Emotional Abuse

http://relationships911.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=4915
THE PROCESS OF BRAINWASHING
(MIND CONTROL)

1. The brainwasher keeps the victim unaware of what is going on and what changes are taking place.

Your partner might control your finances, make plans for you, or not tell you what his plans are until the last minute. He may talk about you to others behind your back, to isolate you from them.

2. The brainwasher controls the victim's time and physical environment, and works to suppress much of the victim's old behavior. The victim is slowly, or abruptly, isolated from all supportive persons except the brainwasher.

Your partner might have insisted that you stop certain social, hobby, or work activities. You might have gotten moved to a new location, farther away from your family and friends. Or you may have been asked (or told) to reduce or stop contact with specific supportive people in your life.

3. The brainwasher creates in the victim a sense of powerlessness, fear, and dependency.

Verbal and emotional abuse creates these emotions, and they become stronger and stronger over time.

4. The brainwasher works to instill new behavior and attitudes in the victim.

Your partner trains to you behave in ways that he wants you to behave. He gradually makes you feel differently about yourself, and erodes your confidence in yourself.

5. The brainwasher puts forth a closed system of logic, and allows no real input or criticism.

In other words -- What he says, goes.

See link to view a visual of the Cycle of Abuse

http://relationships911.org/cgi-bin/links/jump.cgi?ID=4920

Many men are obviously verbally cruel and abusive. Others are more subtle.

Although verbal abuse does not leave black eyes or visible bruises, it is often more seriously damaging to your self-image. Verbal abuse is cruel and scars your soul.

Many women never discuss verbal abuse. Indeed, some do not even recognize that they are being verbally abused.

Often a verbal abuser is quite sensitive to outsiders finding out about the abuse and is very careful to save these scenes for the home environment only. Many verbal abusers are delightful, charming men in public. They treat their spouse or girlfriend with such respect that people often think they "are the perfect couple." They save their cruelty for a private audience of one.

Why do intelligent, warm women permit verbal abuse from boyfriends and later from spouses?

During the courtship period, everyone is on their best behavior. The verbal abuse is slight and probably few and far between. Since women want to believe the best of their lovers, they overlook obvious verbal abuse. Chemistry adds to the capability women have to overlook the first subtle signs of abuse.

Then they marry or move in together. And the abuse starts...

Verbal Abuse Destroys Confidence.

One of the most devastating effects of living with a verbal abuser is the change in self-esteem. As women begin to internalize the criticism and believe it's valid, self-image sinks lower and lower. They start feeling worthless, incompetent, unlovable. After all, when someone who knows them so well thinks they are so worthless and unlovable, then "it must be true."

Sticks and stones ... and that saying of old keeps many women in place until verbal abuse has destroyed self-esteem, making leaving even harder. They even start thinking that if this man loves them, they should hold on to him.

The fact that verbal abusers are quite often charming people adds to the confusion. The abuser can turn on the charm with the woman he is abusing, making her doubt her instincts.

If the woman does challenge the abuser, he might turn on the charm and even make her doubt her instincts. This lowers her self-confidence even further.

Other abusers have stock answers when challenged. He might answer with:

"What's wrong with you, making such a big deal out of nothing.

"Come on, honey, I was drunk .....

"Honey, I love you but sometimes you..."

"I had a bad day at work ..."

"You're not really going to bring this up again, are you? This is getting old."

"I was upset with my ex,"

"You know I didn't mean anything I said. I'm the one who loves you more than anyone else in the world loves you--remember."

If you are in a verbally abusive relationship, start by acknowledging the abuse. This is not an easy thing to do, especially as your self-esteem is weakened. Outside help may be necessary because family, friends, and relatives are often under the spell of your "charmer" and don't offer belief or support. They think you are crazy not to marry this man.

Make plans to create a better environment for yourself. Don't stay too long, though, because every time your self-esteem sinks further, you lessen your chances of actually leaving.

Remember, verbal abuse escalates. Verbal abuse can and sometimes does, turn physical.

[Connonym]

50. Because sometimes change is scarier than more of the same

You really can become paralyzed with fear and even when everyone tells you what you already know it's sometimes hard to actually take that first step and go. I'd much rather have people come here and complain about something than to internalize it all and be afraid to even talk about it. One of the first steps on this journey is admitting out loud -- even if it's "just" on the internet -- that there's a problem. Silence would destroy her soul just as much as the abuse is. I hope and pray that nothing horrible happens before she finally moves on but in the meantime the very least we can do is offer emotional support for what is obviously a very difficult struggle.

I've been stuck in a bad place, I've lied to myself and hid the truth from my family. Sometimes you really do have to hit the bottom. The hardest part can be believing in your own strength.

[Ariana Celeste]

54. Sadly, you're right.

:(

[redqueen]

70. ... and kicks to the teeth about it help less than support / encouragement.

IMO, anyway.

[Phillycat]

77. Oh, bull.

I've been in her situation when I was younger and dumber. All the arms around the shoulders support in the world didn't wake me up out of the morass of victimization I was sitting. It took a couple people saying, "What are you, an idiot? Get the fuck out of there!" for me to realize that in addition to being scared, I was actually enjoying wallowing in self-pity and carrying that huge cross around. Nothing like feeling better than your abusive partner for a shot in the arm of the old ego, especially for those of us with no self-esteem. Plus the sympathy I was getting from others was REALLY addictive.

I could have poor me'd myself right into the grave, without someone telling me the truth.

[redqueen]

80. And you think everyone is like you?

I've been in the same position, and for me, it was the people who offered gentle criticisms and words of encouragement who helped, not the self-proclaimed bitches who decided telling me off would be helpful.

[Phillycat]

81. It's been OVER A YEAR with this poster.

Are you shitting me? Gentle encouragement? The guy is about 5 minutes away from bashing her skull in. He's a fuckhead, you know it and I know it.

The only thing I'm doing is telling her the truth. If you don't like, that's too bad. I'd be doing her a disservice, coddling her, as you are. Jesus!

[redqueen]

82. Why are you getting all pissed off with me?

Look, I can see that you disagree, and think that bullying people will help them to make progress.

With me it was OVER FIVE YEARS... I was lucky and am not dead.

I am not shitting you. This is the kind of decision that every person will handle in their own way. Some issues people have to deal with at their own pace, and no amount of bullying will force them to deal with it on a schedule that someone else thinks is more sensible.

Why don't you ask her if she thinks you're helping? IMO it's you doing a disservice. That's from experience. I remember now much WORSE things were for me after a good teeth-kicking from my concerned friends. They were extremely counterproductive. Maybe that kind of shit has helped you in the past, but not everyone responds the same way to the same stimulus.

Buddha!

[Phillycat]

84. Why am I getting pissed off with you? Maybe because you called me a bitch??

Heh. Geez.

I didn't bully her. I told her the truth. Period.

Why don't I ask her if she thinks I'm helping? Because she doesn't respond to anyone who doesn't give her vague, bland support. She never has, for over a year. I think it's a waste of time, personally, to respond to her threads at all and I usually don't, because she so clearly posts here to further her martyr complex, but my integrity system wouldn't allow me to ignore the fact that she is in immediate danger and most people here won't admit that.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[redqueen]

86. Pfft... where'd you get that?

I said "self-proclaimed bitches who..." meaning that the friends who did it to me are self-proclaimed bitches (and proud of it).

IMO you bullied her... sorry.

If you think it's a waste of time, why spend your time responding, especially if it's only to be nasty?

Perhaps you're more interested in punshing her for what you perceive as a martyr complex than helping her?

[Phillycat]

88. I already answered that question.

I responded because most of the touchy-feely people here in the lounge won't tell her the truth about her situation, and I felt at least one person (and I'm not the only one on this thread, as you can see) should tell her the truth.

Yeah, I want to punish her, that's what it is. :eyes:

[redqueen]

89. Others said the much same thing, but with less nasty.

If the meanness isn't intended to be a punishment... well what other function does it serve?

:shrug:

[Ariana Celeste]

55. jeez, that's pretty harsh.

[Shakespeare]

74. I am so TOTALLY with you on this.

I can think of at least two other active posters who fall into that category. Christ, grow a spine and see a therapist.

I think some folks must (very sickly) enjoy playing the victim.

:thumbsup:

[WolverineDG]

27. Shelter & other info for Missouri

http://www.womenslaw.org/MO/MO_links.htm


dg

[Flaxbee]

29. Show this man the door IMMEDIATELY

He's fucked in the head, and will only make you more miserable than he already has.

It will be difficult, especially if there are financial concerns, but DO NOT tether yourself to this man in any way. He is an abusive lout - mental abuse is just as bad as physical - and you are a worthwhile, good, kind, person who does not deserve to be treated this way by him, or by anyone.

Please, Lady Freedom. Kick him out NOW, or leave and find someplace else for yourself.

[Deep13]

40. See post 36.

[Lyric]

60. See post 57.

[ThomCat]

31. He's picking a fight.

x(

Kick the asshole out of the house and change the locks. :grr:

If this is a sign of how he's going to act then it's best to end it quickly.

[Blue Diadem]

32. I've seen it happen before

very similar to my daughter's situation that I told you about. The subtle accusations turned into full blown accusations and then crazy behavior. I was over 300 miles away when she called me in fear for her life. In our case, she couldn't even call the police to protect her..her ex is a cop.
And ya know what, after all the things he accused her of, within a few weeks of her moving out, he moved another woman in.

Start packing NOW. Get your things and go to your parents. Go somewhere where you'll be safe.

[JoDog]

33. First off

you did a great job on that living room and kitchen.

Second, this is a set up. I wonder if this guy has realized that he owes you a lot of money for supporting him--money you are probably entitled to sue for if he breaks the engagement. If that's the case, he may be trying to set you up as the reason the engagement dissolved (being unfaithful). That could weaken your position should you sue him.

Also, he may very well know whose glasses they are--they may belong to HIS new lover. Rather than risk you seeing them and asking questions, he went for a first strike.

Document everything right now. Write down everything you remember, every conversation from here on out. He so much as raises his voice, call the cops and start an official record of his behavior. Start getting your stuff out, especially anything that is not replaceable. And consider looking into any legal aid or advice you can get from your school. Perhaps a pre-law student could help you determine what your rights are. If you can prove that you supported and cared for him as part of the verbal marriage contract between the two of you, and he broke that contract, your state might hold him liable for the money you spent. While that won't fix your broken heart, it may help you start a new life, and feel a little better about yourself.

Hugs from Illinois!

[Whoa_Nelly]

34. You keep posting about what he's doing/saying

What are you doing for yourself right now--today?

Be pro-active for yourself.

You stated before that in the past you would have left and been out of there before the guy even knew it.

You can do this again.

So many here have had situations similar, if not down right the same, as yours.

Please listen and act on your own behalf. Today. :hug:

[Lady Freedom]

44. What am doing today? I just finished holding a memorial for my dear friend.

Rains it pours.

[Whoa_Nelly]

45. Am so very sorry about you losing your friend

Am hoping you can keep yourself safe and in a good place. :hug:

[lukasahero]

46. I'm sorry about your friend but I have a question about what you said you were doing

In your original post where you say he's grilling you about the glasses, you also say "I sweep and mopped the kitchen, repaired the vac so I could vacuumed the living room,clean the ceiling fan, cleaned the lampshade in the living room, and sweep down cob webs."

WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING THINGS IN THAT APARTMENT AND NOT GETTING YOUR ASS TO YOUR PARENTS HOUSE?!?!?!

Sorry for the screaming but I think you need it. Stop cleaning the place (read: seeking his approval) and get your ass out of there (read: regain your self-esteem).

I'm sure you think these are all just words from people who "just don't know what it's really like". WRONG. I've been where you are. Right down to the $10,000 debt that he racked up but left for me to pay. Right down to the "nothing is ever done to his standards". And right down to the "he's cheating (or wants to) on me so he'll accuse me of cheating on him".

I left 8+ years ago. I was 35 and showed up on my parents doorstep. It was the best thing I ever did FOR MYSELF.

Honestly, I don't want to read another post from you until you are safely away from there.

[BrklynLiberal]

41. You haven't left him yet?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LibertyLover]

42. If the place you are living in now is in your name, the next time he

is out of the house, bag his stuff up, throw it out the front door, get the locks changed, take the dog and get the hell out of there. If it is in his name, pack up your stuff now, grab the dog and get the hell out now. If it is in both your names and you rent, do a combination - the next time he is out of the house, contact the landlord and tell him to take your name off the lease immediately, grab the dog and get the hell out of there. It definitely sounds like he could get physically abusive at any time, either towards you or towards the dog - a cousin of mine lived in a situation similar to yours for a few years following her marriage because she didn't want to admit she had made a mistake. Finally her now-ex drop kicked their dog into the wall, injuring it badly and told her she was next. The lights came on and Christine called her father, who flew in from the other side of the US to remove her (and the dog). When she confessed all to him, including the fact that the swine had abused her mentally the whole time they had lived together during college and grad school, her father asked her why she had stayed and why she had married him. Her answer? I thought I could change him after we got married. Didn't work for her and doesn't work. You are an intelligent, wonderful person who deserves so much better in a life partner than this man. Please, for the sake of your safety and best interests, not to mention welfare, exit the situation as quickly as possible.

[LSK]

43. you need to leave him

You have one life to live, why live it in such misery?

[BlueIris]

51. I'm (still) sorry you have to deal with this circus animal.

Did I recommend therapy yet? Well, I should have.

Good luck.

[JVS]

52. Why don't you leave?

[Ariana Celeste]

53. Sweetie...

Look at what he's done to you... :(

You need out of this honey. go to work, finish your schooling, do what's right for YOU. Reclaim yourself, be your own person and above all be happy with YOU. Be proud of your accomplishments and who you are as a person and to hell with anyone else.

[u4ic]

56. I can't believe this fucking thread

Here is someone who is obviously at her wit's end, has endured a lot of abuse, and whose self esteem is no doubt shot to hell.

And yet she has to endure more crap here because so many feel she isn't doing what they feel she should do? Hmmm...just like her boyfriend!!!!

Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps she is trying to leave, that's why she's cleaning up??? Someone mentioned on another thread to do this very thing, and take digital photographs so she has evidence she left the place in top shape so the asshole she's ending it with cannot wreck the place and blame it on her.

The relationship is over - she has no choice but to get out. Let her do it on her own terms, her choice, even if it's not the way others would like. I'm sorry others have been in the same situation (and having grown up in an abusive household, I can attest to having a lot of understanding on the issue), but can't you remember how scared you were, how perhaps you needed as much support as possible? Not enabling to stay in the relationship, but help and support to get out. She isn't getting it here, that's for sure. :eyes:


Lady Freedom, I give you many :hug: :hug: :hug: You know what you have to do. It's terrifying, but you will be much better off for it in the long run. You deserve so much better. I hope you have some physical as well as emotional support there, so that you can move out quickly, and have someone there for you.

Please take care of yourself, you're all you need to focus on right now; and perhaps consider some counselling after this. Please don't let anyone abuse you in any manner again. :hug:

[Lady Freedom]

61. Thanks u4ic!

Everything is so hectic right now. Classes, work, this, losing a friend... This is just crazy and wrong.

[LaurenG]

62. Good reply

I agree that more abuse is not helpful. Thank you for being a light in dark places. :hug:

[u4ic]

107. Hiya sweetheart

:hug:

I can't believe that the response to abuse is more abuse. Yep, that solves everything. :wtf:

[Phillycat]

66. Bullshit. You'll support her right into her grave.

She needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[u4ic]

108. I see you're spreading the love around

You just don't get it, do you? She IS WAKING THE FUCK UP. She, within the past week, told us here about the abuse. I have no idea if it was the first time she's told anybody, or the 5th - but it takes an immense amount of courage to even realize you are being abused, never mind to speak about it. And not long after, she's greeted with hostility and judgments.

Giving her nonjugmental support and encouragement won't send her to her grave - but your brand of 'enlightenment' sure can - sending her or others right back to her partner. Her self esteem is wracked, and yet you want to what? give a virtual 'slap some sense' into her? Sure, that's the way to do it! :eyes:

She's not a machine, and doesn't have a fucking button to push to make her "wake the fuck up". (neither do you, unfortunately)

If it WERE so easy to leave, then there would be a hell of a lot fewer domestic abuse cases.


Educate yourself: http://www.dvirc.org.au/HelpHub/friends.htm


Here are some highlights:

Your help can make a great difference to someone who is abused. Your response to her situation is really important. If she feels supported and encouraged, she may feel stronger and more able to make decisions. If she feels judged or criticised, she could be afraid to tell anyone else about the abuse again. (and I'll add if she feels the latter, it may drive her back to her abuser).


Why doesn't she just leave?

It can be hard to understand why someone would stay in a relationship if she is being treated so badly. Leaving may appear to be a simple solution. You might think that the abuse is partly her fault because she puts up with it, or that she is weak or stupid if she stays.

It is hard to imagine what it is like to be abused when you are not in the situation yourself. From the outside, it may seem easier to leave than it actually is. It can be very difficult to leave an abusive partner. This is an important thing for friends and family to understand.

There are many reasons why it may be so hard to leave.

* She is afraid of what the abuser will do if she leaves. The person who is abusive may have threatened to harm her, her relatives, or the children, pets or property. They may threaten to commit suicide if she talks about leaving. Many victims find that the abuse continues or gets worse after they leave.
* She still loves her partner, because he or she is not abusive all of the time.
* She has a commitment to the relationship or a belief that marriage is forever, for 'better or worse'.
* She hopes her partner will change. Sometimes the abusive person might promise to change. She might think that if the abuser stops drinking, the abuse will stop.
* She thinks the abuse is her fault.
* She feels she should stay 'for the sake of the children', and that it is best that children live with both parents. Her partner may have threatened to take or harm the children.
* A lack of confidence. The person who is abusive will have deliberately tried to break down their partner's confidence, and make her feel like she is stupid, hopeless, and responsible for the abuse. She may feel powerless and unable to make decisions.
* Isolation and loneliness. The person who is abusive may have tried to cut her off from contact with family or friends. She might be afraid of coping on her own. If English is not her first language she might feel particularly isolated.
* Pressure to stay from family, her community or church. She might fear rejection from her community or family if she leaves.
* She may feel that she can't get away from her partner because they live in a rural area, or because they have the same friends, or are part of the same ethnic, Aboriginal or religious community.
* She doesn't have the means to survive if the relationship ends. She might not have anywhere to live, or access to money, or transport, particularly if she lives in an isolated area. She may be dependent upon her partner's income. If she has a disability, she may depend upon the abuser for assistance.

It is very important that you do not make her feel that there is something wrong with her because she hasn't left. This will only reinforce her low confidence and feelings of guilt and self-blame.


"When I told her how he abused me, my friend said 'but you let him do it' like it was my fault. That made me feel worse. She didn't know how much pressure he put on me to go back, how he said he loved me and would kill himself rather than live without me and the children. He made me feel so guilty. I though how important it was for the children to have a father. It was all a way of manipulating me to come back. My friend stopped talking to me after I went back to him, she said I was stupid. I was really upset because she was my only close friend in Australia and I really needed someone to talk to, and help me to see that the way he treated me was wrong" - Nicola.




I have not seen a poster here who thinks she should stay, and everyone wants her to get out as soon as she can. But I have seen many who, however well intentioned, will make her feel worse - guilty and ashamed, because she "can't wake the fuck up yet" (despite acknowledging a problem), or "hasn't left in the couple of days since you last posted", etc. There are other ways to support her, encouraging her, without putting her down. She gets that enough at home.

[JVS]

67. "she is trying to leave, that's why she's cleaning up"

From her previous post about her BF being pissed off that she keeps house poorly and her disappointment in this OP about not getting any praise for her housecleaning efforts, I doubt your assertion. Besides, who cleans lampshades as a prelude to leaving the house?

[u4ic]

109. Perhaps you missed the word "perhaps", Sherlock

There are many things about this situation that none of us know.

Who cleans lampshades? Maybe someone with allergies to dust. Maybe someone who's had it drilled into her for the past few years by an abusive asshole, and has now incorporated it into her routine for cleaning.

Maybe he's having a last go at her cleaning before she leaves.

'Maybe', 'perhaps'...because we don't know. We don't know if she's making, or has made plans yet. She's just had a friend die. And given the virulent responses here, I'm guessing we'll never find out. I sure as hell wouldn't post here again if I were in her situation.

[redqueen]

71. Great post.

:thumbsup:

[u4ic]

110. From one to another, who've been there

:hug:

[Shakespeare]

75. Well, she's been "trying" for over a year.

Some of us remember her posts about this jerk going back a loooooong time ago.

[Phillycat]

78. Yep. Been over a year. And nothing ever changes.

The weird thing about a dysfunctional relationship is that BOTH people are getting something out of it, even if it doesn't seem like that. Might not be something good, but it's something they need or want.

[redqueen]

83. I tried for five.

I must really be styooooopid!

[Phillycat]

85. Has nothing to do with stupidity.

Both parties in a dysfunctional relationship get something out of it, no matter how much one looks like the victim. You stayed because some part of you wanted to stay, just as all abused people do.

[redqueen]

87. Wow... you're a super awesome clinical psychiatrist.

Are you reading what you're typing?

Do you REALLY believe you know that much about everyone?

Ganesh!

[DS1]

90. Squishy!

[Phillycat]

91. Well, you don't have to be an expert to understand basic human dynamics.

Anyone who's been through some stuff and been through therapy and come out the other side understanding their motivations a little better has this information. I'm quite certain that when you got out of your 5 year mess, you had to come to terms with some pretty intense truths about yourself and why you would have chosen a man like that and why you stayed. Doesn't excuse a molecule of HIS behavior, but everyone has to take responsibility for their part, OR risk making the same mistakes over and over again because they can't admit what their part is.

Not exactly rocket science here. Simple human behavior.

[redqueen]

93. Believe it or not, there are other factors involved.

*sigh*

[Phillycat]

95. I'm listening.

?

[redqueen]

96. Perhaps you might consider making friends with someone who works

in the field of psychiatry or counseling, and asking them.

I'd prefer not to get involved in a pissing contest about which factors you consider worthwhile or meaningful.

:)

[Phillycat]

97. Aw, how very condescending of you.

Has it occured to you that perhaps it's YOUR knowledge that is lacking, particularly since you've yet to refute anything I've said?

Once again, and for the last time, it's not about what *I* consider worthwhile. It's about the TRUTH. You know, facts. Not vaguely insulting posts with no content.

[redqueen]

100. Refute?

How else do you want me to refute the idea that bullying is helpful?

Anyway... you go on with your bad self spreadin that TRUTH!

[Gormy Cuss]

92. Stick a bow on that neat little package..

Yeah, all the people I've known who were abused stayed because that's what they wanted. Being thrown against the wall, slapped around and then told that the partner would kill them if they left had nothing to do with it.

Here's what happened to one of them when she didn't listen:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/01/12/belmont_father_of_3_kills_wife_and_self/

[Phillycat]

94. This is not shocking to me. I lived it, as have many many women.

I don't understand your point. Unless they were literally locked in a dungeon, they stayed out of their own volition. Were they paralyzed by fear? Maybe, but at some point you have to save your own life and the lives of your children.

You imply that by saying the OP has a part in what is happening, that I am excusing the behavior of her fuckhead boyfriend. Nothing could be further from the truth. Not to mention, the behavior of said fuckhead has not yet escalated to the point of physical abuse (that she's admitted) or threatening her life if she left. Therefore, NOW might be the time to wake her up out of her victim trance and get her out the door, yes?

[Gormy Cuss]

98. I think your reply was meant for someone else.

I was commenting on your blanket statement to redqueen that "You stayed because some part of you wanted to stay, just as all abused people do." That's ignoring the very really threat of death to self and loved ones for those living in abusive situations. It's not at all unusual for those who live with abusers to face the worst violence when they try to leave. Saving yourself is easier said than done in some cases. That was my point. Simplifying it as wanting to stay is a bit of a stretch.

How you got the impression that I was implying that you were excusing the behavior of the abuser is not clear. I was implying however that you are, perhaps unwillingly, blaming victims by pretending that all have the "choice" to leave. Most may have some choice, but not all do.

As for the OP, you get no argument there. She needs to get out of the situation pronto.

[Phillycat]

99. I'm with you there.

Not all have the choice to leave. And I would never blame the victim. I only think it's important for women who have been in abusive situations to look at WHY they made those decisions initially, and why they stayed long past the point of sanity. I think it's important because the women I know (including me) who have gotten out of victimized lives and become self-actualized invariably NEEDED to come to terms with their part in the dysfunction in order to make the change and get better. Not like the old, "I talked back, so I deserved that slap" bullshit. But more like, "Why is my self-esteem so low that I allow someone to treat me this way? What's happened in my past to bring me so low? What do I need to come to terms with here?" You know?

I apologize if I misinterpreted your post.

[redqueen]

102. Backpedaling now?

"You stayed because some part of you wanted to stay, just as all abused people do. "

[Phillycat]

103. No.

But boy, you sure are enjoying stalking me on this thread, aren'tcha? Wow.

[redqueen]

104. Stalking?

You don't think highly enough of yourself, I don't think. :P


How is: "Not all have the choice to leave."

Not completely the opposite of: "You stayed because some part of you wanted to stay, just as all abused people do. "

Anyway, nevermind... if you're going to confuse my attempts to discuss your shifting stances on this with me somehow 'stalking' you it just isn't worth it.

:hi:

[Phillycat]

105. Both of us probably really want to expend less energy on this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7139329&mesg_id=7139329

:hi:

[redqueen]

101. Thank you for acknowledging the FACT that not all people

have the same circumstances / choices.

:hi:

[u4ic]

111. And?

That makes her...what? Stupid? Unsuccessful? Someone who wants to wallow in their own misery? Someone who deserves it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7135143&mesg_id=7143094


Have a look at some of the reasons.There are plenty.

She will have to make the decision to leave, if its before the end of the month. We don't know if she's getting anything together yet for the move - hell, she just buried a friend, and is working 14+ hr days. Unless she can take some time off (not always easy in some jobs), it may take a bit of time to arrange it all.


It's disheartening to see the lack of understanding of domestic abuse on this board. Nonjudgmental support/encouragement and enabling and are two very different things. I don't think some see that distinction.

[Phillycat]

112. Yeah...I think she's just full of shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7139329&mesg_id=7139329

[Shakespeare]

113. I just LOVE that you assume I've never been in a simliar situation.

Because you're dead fucking wrong. But I got OUT of it as soon as I was able, because I don't have a sick--yes, I'll say it for what it is, a mental illness--need to stay in that relationship.

IF this poster is for real--and I strongly doubt that, by the way--she desperately needs therapy. IF she's really going through this, my heart goes out to her. But there comes a time when you have to get the fuck out, and she's been trolling for sympathy for this situation for over a year here. She's known for a long time what she needs to do, and says her family has offered to help her get out (so circumstances certainly aren't keeping her there), and yet she stays.

So, yes, I think it's time for a little blunt language. And I say this as someone who's been there.

[hedgehog]

72. Lady Freedom - can I tell you a story?

Years ago my dear cousin had a beautiful Catholic Wedding. She was treasured by her mom, dad, grandma and four brothers. She was and is a delightful woman. Years later she was strong and loving enough to nurse her beloved brother through his death from AIDS. So, perfect woman, perfect wedding, wonderful family, everything should have been perfect, right?

They moved about 80 miles away and he started to abuse her. I don't know all the details, I don't know how far it went.

She divorced him and came home.

Now for the good part: she married a man who had several sons and loves her dearly. She is living in a happy home now surrounded by the people she loves and who love her.


I think you need to get out to protect yourself as soon as you can. I think you are in greater danger the longer you stay. I think your first step away from this is the first step to the happy life that is waiting for you.

God bless you and give you strength.

[IdaBriggs]

106. When you are tired of feeling bad, you will do something to make yourself feel good.

Until then, it sounds like you need to wallow in your own misery and drama for a bit longer.

You know he is a bad boyfriend/fiance. You know the relationship is unhealthy. You know a lot of people are scared for you. You know you have feelings for him, and you seem to believe that "warm feelings" are the important bits of a relationship, be it passion, or compassion, or oozy feelings of love.

Its time to grow up. Love is important, and that includes love for one's self. You are behaving in a very disrespectful fashion to yourself by staying in a bad relationship. Stop. Take a deep breathe, and quit trying to buy him/bully him/prove to him you are worthy of loving. You can never do enough. He doesn't love you in a healthy way. You made a poor decision, and now its time to fix it.

Its time to be a grown up. If someone you love was going through this, what would the "protective" part of you suggest she/he do? Write it down. Then follow your own advice.

There are always a thousand excuses for not doing the right thing. You are both miserable, and being the sharing types, you are spreading it around, and causing people who are worried about you to relive sad things in an effort to have you avoid some of their less pleasant times.

STOP. If you want to live this way, stop complaining, suck it up as your own sick, twisted version of normal, and get used to being miserable (if that is what makes you happy). If you want to live better, get thee to a therapist! Either way, its time to stop being a victim, and start being a Grown Up.

He's not going to appreciate it, and neither will you for a bit, but long term, its the way to go.

Promise. You *CAN* do it.