If you believed in a "pre-millenial second coming of christ" wouldn't you wonder why

[KitchenWitch]

christ is almost 8 years too late?

[ghostsofgiants]

1. Pre-millennial second coming means that he will come back and have a 1,000 reign here on earth

Not that he'd be back before the new millennium.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. .

:thumbsup:

[KitchenWitch]

5. OOOPS

Okay

:dunce:

[ghostsofgiants]

7. I've studied apocalyptic belief a little.

It's an understandable mistake.

[KitchenWitch]

10. Thanks!

where did your bug go?

[ghostsofgiants]

16. Yelling Bird ate it.

[China_cat]

18. I know he's right

but if you go by your statement, that actually makes him 1008 years late. (2000 was not the first 'millenium' after all)

[KitchenWitch]

20. I am guessing they get by on the idea that god never said WHICH millenium

:shrug:

[LeftyMom]

8. He's right.

BTW, if you ever want to amuse yourself, crack open the beverage of your choice and get this fight going on any fundie website. Especially rapture ready.

[KitchenWitch]

11. I am sure!

:rofl:

[Midlodemocrat]

2. Maybe his watch is broken.

[skygazer]

3. Well, he did die, right?

And they call people who died "the late...(fill in name)"

So that explains it. Right? :dunce:

[AlCzervik]

6. i think it happened already and everybody got left behind.

[skygazer]

9. I've often wondered if anyone would recognize him

I always figured he'd end up jailed on a vagrancy charge or something.

[AlCzervik]

12. he would totally be pulled out of line at the airport.

[lildreamer316]

30. You mean, like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3595270

[Parche]

13. Jesus Is Coming?

Wouldnt that get REAL messy? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :hi:

Ok so I will burn in Hell somewhere for that.....:hi:

[KitchenWitch]

14. There is room in my handbasket for you!

:rofl:

[skygazer]

15. Say hi to my dad for me when you get there, would you?

Okay, I'm going to burn in hell for THAT. x(

:rofl:

[av8rdave]

17. What happens when the 1000 years is up?

[Critters2]

23. That depends....are you pre- or post-millenial? nt

[av8rdave]

32. I don't really know...which option offers the better afterlife?

[Critters2]

37. You'll want pre-millenial

Jesus comes down and gets you raptured before the bad stuff starts.

[av8rdave]

50. OK...that's my belief then

[dpbrown]

36. I was pre-millenial, but I took "Raptrin" and it got better

:rofl:

[Critters2]

19. pre-millenial--Jesus is coming back before the 1,000 years of peace,

after the tribulation.

Post-millenial--Jesus comes back after all of that, as the big end of it all.

And then there's something called "Amillenialism" that I don't understand, cuz we don't worry about these things in my tradition. I also don't fully understand the diff between "inerrancy" and "infallibility"...or supralapsarian versus infralapsarian. I tend to think all of these things are ways to avoid focusing on what Jesus really taught.

[KitchenWitch]

21. They sure do not like to focus on his teachings, do they?

[Critters2]

22. All that caring for the poor and marginalized, loving your neighbor

is so bothersome...when there are important things to be concerned about. Like knowing the day and the hour, and other things Jesus SPECIFICALLY said we couldn't know any way.

[triguy46]

40. Jesus NEVER spoke anything like pre-millineal dispensationalism...

It was invented in 1830.

[yellowdogintexas]

31. this stuff does get really weird, doesn't it. I know of at least 2 churches

that suffered congregational splits over pre and post millenial viewpoints. Made me glad (yet again) to be a Methodist where all that stuff is not important at all.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. Have you ever seen the 'triclavianism' 'controversy' at Objective: Ministries

http://objectiveministries.org/pastorscorner/#06-19-2003

I think you'll like it. 'Triclavianism' really does exist as a word - the references in this Wikipedia entry are in the Oxford English Dictionary too.

If you haven't seen Objective: Ministries before, take a look around the site. I love it - hey, the latest update in "Pastor's Corner" even has a reference to infralapsarianism!

[Deep13]

24. In the NT JC says he will return during the lifetime of so of those present.

Either JC blew it or we are to believe that someone who knew JC is still kicking.

[Critters2]

25. I know lots of people who know Jesus

and talk to him all the time. You don't?

[Deep13]

26. No. I find the conversation rather one-sided. Anyway, that's not what it says.

I forgot the verse, but per the NT, he said he would return during the lives of some of those present when he said it.

[yellowdogintexas]

28. that is certainly what St Paul believed, he thought Christ's return would

be in his (Paul's) lifetime and therefore there wasn't much time for anything but getting ready for the Second Coming of Christ. He must have died a sorely disappointed man.

How do we know Christ hasn't returned several times, decided it wasn't worth it and went back?

[Deep13]

34. Well, to answer your question...

...it is because there probably was no Jesus and even if there was, dead people cannot come back to life.

An honest reading of the epistles of Paul as independent letters not a part of any larger anthology, which is what they were, suggest P. was waiting for a FIRST coming. It seems he was one of many who thought there was an incorporeal son of god in heaven that had nothing to do with anyone real person.

[Critters2]

44. What?

Paul mentions Jesus constantly! Here, for example, from Romans 8:

"1 What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not withhold his own Son, but gave him up for all of us, will he not with him also give us everything else? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us.* 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written,
‘For your sake we are being killed all day long;
we are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered.’
37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Or the institution of the Lord's Supper, from 1 Corinthians 11--

"For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, ‘This is my body that is for* you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ 25In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."

Definitely past-tense statement about someone he believed in.

[yellowdogintexas]

45. Agree nt

[Deep13]

48. It appears you're right about that.

I'm going to have to do a little more digging. The claim I have heard is that Paul mentions very few detail's of JC's life. None of the miracles--which I think were worth mentioning--and nothing about the virgin birth, the crucifiction or the resurrection. This has lead some scholars to wonder if Paul was following a widely-followed belief of a son of God in heaven who could intercede on behalf of humanity.

[Critters2]

49. Some scholars?

Like who, exactly?

[Deep13]

53. I don't remember. It was something I found...

...surfing the internet.

[Critters2]

54. Hmmm....not surprised. nt

[Deep13]

55. Well I have a job besides chit-chatting on this website. EDIT

I don't always have sources handy, you know.

p.s.
A quick search found this. It talks about Paul and a non-human christ about 2/3 of the way down.

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/marshall_gauvin/did_jesus_really_live.html

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. If Christ is indeed the direct manifestation of God in the manifested universe

then I'm first in line to say hello, thank you very much. However, I have some doubts that are hard to solve.

1- Indian masters have long before exhibited such skills.
2- Where did Jeshua study in his missing years?
3- There is a part in the Bible where he says that evil
is alike, when he cast demons into pigs. Evil will twist
in any direction in order to deceive.
3- Why is Jeshua Christ two parts of 666? Was Revelations not from God?

I have more. However, the good that was done is significant, and the advice is universal.

But, be very careful who you give yourself to. I'm very interested in solving these questions. I have zero reason to doubt God's existence and will.

[Generic Brad]

29. Ever heard of 2033?

He died at age 33. Two thousand years have not passed since then.

See, first we had to get past 2000. Immediately coming up is 2012. After we get past 2012 the doom sayers will spring 2033 on us. Then there will be some issue with the Gregorian calendar where we got off by a few years during the dark ages. True believers will come up with an answer no matter what date is on the calendar.

[WCGreen]

33. Oh that, well, there was a mix-up, yea that's it there was suppose

to be this, you know, thing and well when, you know THAT happened it was, Ummmm, put off for a few years...

But he's coming...

I swear to god he's a comin'

[tjwmason]

35. He got confused with the whole 2000 vs 2001 argument

and so decided to postpone the whole thing. :shrug:

[triguy46]

41. It wasn't Christ, but Darby who screwed things up.

[triguy46]

38. The millenial has nothing to do with what year it is.

Pre-millenial dispensationalism is an artificial construct of a 2nd rate preacher named Darby back in the 1830s. It is not a historically accepted or presented concept, rather it proof texts scripture to satisfy its premise. Here are just some of the theologians who are NOT PMDists: Paul. St. Thomas Acquinas. Martin Luther. Calvin. Roger Williams. Herschel Hobbs (you prob haven't heard of him, he's a southern baptist leader of the highest regard, who has stated that he is an 'a-millenialist,' another way of saying its a crock.)

[triguy46]

39. For a very good explanation of this and the falsity of it...

and its misuse, I recommend: The Godless Constitution, by Kramnick and Moore.

[bridgit]

43. maybe He & His Dad went fishing like Andy & Opie...

:shrug:

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

46. "No man will know the day or the hour of my coming."

That's one statement Christ made that they tend to forget- Man works to God's schedule, not God to Man's.

[Xipe Totec]

47. He had second thoughts

He decided to go with the Alpha Centurions.

[Arugula Latte]

51. Hooey, thy name is Religion.

There. That explains everything. You're all welcome! :hi:

[Dukkha]

52. must've been a Y2K bug error

and it's 1907 right now on Jesus's clock