Don Shula says if Pats go undefeated it is tainted due to spygate.

[IndianaJones]

Sour grapes or legitimate gripe.

[SteppingRazor]

1. I'd say it's a nonissue until they do, in fact, go undefeated. n/t

[ohiosmith]

2. Talk about living in the past.

1. The Pats will not go undefeated.

B. Screw Shula.

[quip]

3. Nope. Yup. n/t

[IndianaJones]

4. have you seen the Dolphins for the past 2 decades? Where else would he live? nt.

[ohiosmith]

9. Yes and too true.

[ashling]

13. Oh yeah, well ....

He lost 20 lbs. on Nutra System, so there!

:rofl:

[flvegan]

5. What's the excuse for this past weekend?

Were the Pats spying or just the better team at the time?

[petronius]

16. Seriously. What they got caught doing was wrong, and they were punished,

but at most it contributed a miniscule fraction of a percent to their success this season (and the one before this, and the one before that...)

[edbermac]

6. Fuck off, Shula! And how are your Dolphins doing these days?

They couldn't win a game even if they did cheat.

[IndianaJones]

8. these days? try 20 years. nt.

[AngryAmish]

7. Lets be clear - Patriots are admitted cheaters

We just have not caught them on the other matters yet.

[krispos42]

15. How is videotaping cheating?

As I understand it, the Pats had somebody videotaping of the coaches on the sidelines to learn their signals they use. Is there more to it that I'm missing?

[madinmaryland]

18. It is against league rules, which the commissioner reiterated

would be strictly enforced prior to the start of the season.

[krispos42]

25. Okay, but it sounds like a stupid rule

It's virtually unenforcable. There are tens of thousands of people in the stands with cameras and binoculars, and network coverage of almost every square inch of the field.

[NewJeffCT]

27. It is almost unenforceable, and I can guarantee you

that every team out there does it as well. There's too much money out there for teams not to try to employ any tactic they can to get ahead...

[madinmaryland]

28. Actual the goal of the rule as I understand it,

is not to allow anyone to video tape the other team's coaches signal. While someone could tape it with a camera in the stands, logistically they would not be able to turn it over until the end of the game, which would be of no use to the opposing team.

Obviously someone in the stands could be spying on the coaches and relaying that information to the sidelines.

[AngryAmish]

36. If it is unenforceable why did they lose a draft pick

and th4e coach lose $500k. That sounds like enforcement to me.

[edbermac]

31. But why? Aren't the guys being taped in front of 70,000 people?

They're on the sidelines in plain view of the crowd and about 20 network TV cameras. How can this be called cheating? All the opposing players have to do is look over at the sidelines at them as well. I don't see how this would give a team an advantage over the other.

[madinmaryland]

33. It's a lot harder to verbally describe the signals, than to show a video tape

of them to the coaches. I don't believe coaches have access to the TV camera's video's during the game. Obviously they have them after the game, but then it does not matter.

Just one way of trying to stop the stealing of signals.

[petronius]

19. I think that's what they did, and it's against the league rules

There's been a lot of wriggling and squirming about the definition of cheating in Pats threads here, but what they for sure did was violate league rules in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage. I call that cheating, YMMV...

[MissMillie]

10. Not to condone cheating....

but I work for a guy who was the COO of the New England Patriots. He tells me that he was not aware of any videotaping before that one game when Bellichick got caught.

He also told me that he is pretty sure that just about EVERY team does at least ONE illegal activity to gain some sort of advantage. Be it taping, or piping in crowd noise, or what have you.

Let me tell you, it pretty much soured me on the sport.

Certainly I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon that says the Patriots are evil incarnate because they got caught.

And no, I don't condone ANY of it.

It IS a game. It's too bad that EVERYONE can't remember that. From the players, to the management, to the fans, to the sports-casters....

Remember when sports used to be FUN?

[IndianaJones]

11. I believe the Colts have been accused of piping in noise. nt.

[MissMillie]

12. yep, and it's damned hard to prove

Truth be told, I think they out-played the Pats this weekend. Were it not for just a couple of lucky plays (that last fumble, for instance) the Pats would be singing a different tune.

But honestly, I don't think anyone would give a hoot about the videotaping or the noise-piping if these teams weren't so terrific.

I think for most of the people complaining it really is all about sour grapes. They can't be bothered to watch Brady throw a perfect game and enjoy that for what it is. If it were their own team, they wouldn't throw out accusations or even suggestions that he be taken out (even if just in jest).

The world does not stop revolving when your team doesn't win. And when an opponent plays well, it's a good sport who recognizes that.

The Pats have been under a microscope since that first game. There's no way they're still doing that. It's time to let that rest.

Does anyone really believe that the Pats would have lost that game if they hadn't been videotaping? I mean, REALLY?

[petronius]

20. I nominate this for the 'hitting the nail on the head' post of the day

Well said!

[AllegroRondo]

14. Heck, my own Packers did lots of not nice stuff in their day

like providing poor / about to break heaters for the opposing team's sideline, or warming balls for their kicker. Not in the last 30 years, mind you, but that type of thing used to be fairly common.

[DS1]

21. ok, I have to know

How do warm balls affect a team?

[AllegroRondo]

24. on a cold day, a warm ball can be kicked farther

and straighter. Especially in Green Bay where December games can get below 0.
A cold ball is like kicking a brick.

[MissMillie]

30. that sounds like a loaded question

:eyes:

[LoveMyCali]

45. The same videographer was kicked out of the stadium

last year when the Patriots played the Packers but the Packers didn't confiscate the tape to send to the league office so it obviously wasn't the first time the Patriots had done this.

It may be just a game but there is a lot of money involved including salaries of coaches that depend on wins and loses so I don't think that it's as much of a non-issue as some would like to believe. If you get caught doing something and are told to stop but you do it again, yup that's cheating.

[sasquatch]

17. Sour grapes

Don is about to lose his legacy.

[sasquatch]

22. Come to think about it, nobody cared when Kimo Von Oelhoffen took out Palmer

So I guess it won't be tainted.

[JVS]

37. That was a legitimate play and the Bungles SUCK!

[sasquatch]

38. Right

:crazy:

[JVS]

40. yep, you're totally tin-foiling it

:tinfoilhat:

[sasquatch]

41. Mmm-hmm

And it was only one shooter that took out Kennedy.

[JVS]

42. Chuck "on the Grassy" Noll, coincidence?

[Marrah_G]

23. He is an asshole

Every team did it. Every team knew every other team fucking did it.

Pats are proving just how damn good they are and some whining little bitches can't handle it.

[NewJeffCT]

26. I'd be shocked if every team out there didn't employ similar tactics

Maybe the Patriots were less subtle about it than other teams and got caught, or maybe it was the fact that the coach of the Jets hates Bellichek and the Jets coach was looking for a leg up in the division.

However, I bet it has become a lot more difficult for the Pats to get away with it since that Week 1 win against the Jets. Is it similarly difficult for the other teams?

I would also guess that most Division 1-A college football teams also similarly tape opponents as well.

I'm not a big NFL fan at all, either, and if I had to list NFL teams from most liked to most hated, the Patriots would probably be near the bottom of the list, only ahead of the Cowboys.

[tigereye]

29. don't a lot of teams do that?

not saying that it is right, and obviously it is against the rules.

However, it looks that itself isn't enough to win - they seem to have excellent players, accurate quarterback, and excellent offense and defense.

However, my son thinks that our Steelers should replay the championship games we lost to them!


He is only 11. :rofl:

[NewJeffCT]

43. yes, every team does that

and, anybody that thinks otherwise is naive.

[Burma Jones]

32. Wah Wah Wah

Is Shula working for Faux News now?

[Rhythm]

34. They gonna put an asterisk on the ball when the Pats win another Superbowl?

Rule or not, i think what they got 'caught' doing is nothing that everyone else doesn't do as well.

[BulletproofLandshark]

35. Not a Patriots fan, but...

I really, REALLY want to see them go undefeated, if for no other reason than to not have to hear about the goddamned '72 Dolphins anymore. A lot of Super Bowl winners could have gone undefeated if then only had 14 regular season games against opponents with a combined .365 winning percentage. Fuck the Dolphins, and fuck their yearly champagne toast.

[Pierre.Suave]

39. Don Shula is a...

MORAN!

[Generic Brad]

44. Cheaters never win

And since the Patriots don't lose, they are obviously not cheaters.