I feel bad debating people who have had paranormal experiences

[Taverner]

Its as if by debunking their "memories" of loved ones reaching out to them in the afterlife, I am killing a part of joy in their life, no matter how impossible.

You see, I see all mediums and fortune tellers as charlatans and tricksters. I don't think there is a soul, and when people talk about "where does the energy that keeps you alive go when you die" I know the answer - it's in science. That energy stays in the cells and atoms and then is released into the environment. One of the reasons I want a natural burial now.

Anyway, all of the stories told about said contact from the beyond all have flaws, and are based on generalities. Just like Johnathan Edwards does, the medium works in the general, and then hones in on the specific. The same trick is done in sales - customers rarely tell you what they really want. You don't even have to talk, they can read faces and emotions well. There's a reason cops ask psychics to help in murder investigations - usually the "psychic" is more psychologist than psychic - and can read into people things that cops can't. This is not proof of the paranormal - this is proof that you can say much without talking.

I could go through each of these stories, but I don't want to. We humans do amazing things to cope with grief and loss - including believing the incredible. Just look at the coffers for any church and you'll see what I mean. And although I'm no big fan of religion or superstition - I don't want to crush anyone's coping mechanism either. Too much like, as the great Bob Newhart said "stomping on a smurf."

[Xipe Totec]

1. I speak with my ancestors all the time

no, not in a paranormal way; they just live within my mind.

But so does Don Quijote, Jean Valjean, Socrates, Plato, Lavoisier, Beethoven, Vivaldi.

There really is no difference between real people who lived in a different time, and fictional characters.

In our minds, they are both abstact concepts; pure thought stuff.

[alarimer]

2. It was strange when my grandmother died

I had to sleep with a light, which I normally do not do, because I guess I thought she would "haunt" me. I don't believe in ghosts; I think there is a rational explanation for all the things people say they see (usually I would bet they are dreaming or hallucinating) but I guess the irrational part of my mind just overrode all of that.

She never did haunt me, although I have had a lot of dreams about her.

[WindRavenX]

3. it's hard, but it's a bad habit to let people let beloved memories or wishes replace reality

I mean, it sucks to bust a person's bubble...but there is a fine line between clinging to memories and becoming deluded and unable to accept reality.

Hope is a powerful motivator. When someone is dying of cancer, many people will the most absurd "treatments" or prayers or whatever in the hope that something, somehow, will cure them.

It's unbelievably powerful. But it's a false hope, and I consider that to be even worse...

I'd love to see a real unicorn dammit. But that doesn't mean I should pretend they are real.

[SeattleGirl]

4. Why do you feel you need to debate them? You said you don't

believe there is a soul, but a lot of people do. Why is your belief the "true" one and not theirs?

Not picking a fight; just wondering.

Whether mediums and such are charletons and trickters is a whole different debate, but it just seems that you have decided that your view of there being no soul is the absolute truth, and those who do believe in a soul are somehow wrong. There may be no absolute proof that we have souls, but I would also say there is no absolute proof that we don't.

[jonnyblitz]

5. "there is no absolute proof that we don't"

the rules of debate don't require one to prove a negative, which is impossible. the one making the positive claim is the one required to prove that claim, which they never can in regards to existence of souls. how does one prove something ISN'T there? it makes no sense to even attempt to. that is all I care to say on that. i don't care to upset distraught people but I couldnt let your comments in regards to proving a negative pass.

[SeattleGirl]

6. Point taken.

You are correct.

[Kutjara]

11. Unfortunately, it usually ends up with the "skeptic" having to defend their position...

...rather than the person making the paranormal claims. At least that's been my experience. Some acquaintance will say they've been to a psychic and that the psychic "knew" all kinds of things about them that "nobody could possibly know," and how do I explain that. I try to give them a crash course in "cold reading" techniques and direct them to watch or read James Randi, Derren Brown, Penn & Teller, or any of the other "magicians" who use these techniques to produce quite extraordinary "psychic" effects.

Inevitably, their eyes glaze over because I'm raining on their ghostly parade, so they just wait patiently until I've finished, and then pipe up with, "but they knew my dad's name was William and that my first cat was named 'Fluffy' and had one black paw. Explain that, Mr. Rationality." Suddenly, I'm having to dissect every moment of a "psychic reading" on the selective memory of someone who clearly wants to believe, and probably blabbed every detail of their personal life without even realizing it. It's about this time I start to think, "Hang on a minute. Why the feck am I the one on the defensive? Shouldn't Mr/Ms Psychic Friends here be thinking a little bit more critically about their experience?"

Of course, even if my arguments do penetrate a little, I still hear the, "Well, you have to admit science doesn't know EVERYTHING. Many things haven't been explained." It's pointless to try to tell them that, just because something hasn't yet been explained, doesn't mean it's either inexplicable or inevitably due to supernatural cause.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a firm believer in people believing whatever the hell they like. What I don't appreciate, however, is that my reputation as the resident skeptic among my friends, family, and workmates means that I'm the "go to" guy for every "unexplainable" incident they've every experienced. What I find most depressing is that people would much rather cook up a supernatural explanation for what they experience than a natural one. And of course, any admission on my part that I don't personally have an explanation for any given phenomenon is taken as cast iron proof of that phenomenon's supernatural nature. The phrase "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence," gets met with blank incomprehension. In many ways, the modern world is little different from a Medieval Village.

I learned a while ago that such discussions usually lead nowhere, so I just grit my teeth and change the subject. Rationality is boring and spooky spirits are cool. Cool beats boring every time.

Or maybe I just need to find less annoying family and friends.

[Taverner]

12. Consciousness is a by-product of our mental 'Operating System' if you will

At some point, humans differed from other animals and became self aware. It was at this point that the whole idea of a soul came into being, as we couldn't really understand reality (that we aren't really 'one' thing but a bunch of processes and reactions working towards a single entity's existance). Dogs don't care about their soul - they only think in terms of survival.

Over time, we haven't physically evolved, but our Operating System has.

[Der Blaue Engel]

7. So why debunk them?

I never debate that sort of experience with anyone. If it comforts them to believe what they believe, and it isn't hurting anyone, then why not let them have their comfort? I find other people's paranormal stories fascinating, whether I believe them or not.

:shrug:

[skygazer]

8. Then why debate them?

If it makes you feel bad, why bother? Does it hurt them to believe what they do? Does it hurt YOU?

Just for clarity, I don't believe any of that stuff either but I also don't care if others do. For some people, it allows them some healing and peace. That's not such a bad thing.

[Connonym]

9. the only people I know who have had paranormal experiences

have had them in the absence of a medium or any other kind of third party. Mostly in dreams, which could very easily be nothing but the mind dealing with grief in its own way -- except that I do know of two people who were visited in dreams before they even knew the dead person had passed. My sister was out of the country when my uncle died, she didn't even know that he had been sick or put in the hospital. The time of his death was the middle of the night where she was and she dreamed he talked to her and told her that he was checking in on everyone to make sure they were ok before he left. She didn't find out until the next day that he had died. Weird, sort of eerie but clearly no possibility of someone playing tricks on her. And, you know, it made her feel good and where's the harm in that?

[InvisibleTouch]

10. I've spoken to several mediums/psychics/animal communicators...

...and never did they really tell me anything that wasn't so general that it couldn't apply to almost anyone ("I'm sensing a lot of conflict with your parents"), something that sounded good but was neither verifiable nor falsifiable ("you were a priestess in Ancient Egypt"), or something that was an almost-certain guess ("one of the puppies may be small and weak and need some extra feeding" - large breeds tend to have large litters which almost always include a "runt") - or something outright wrong that could still have been twisted and turned into a "maybe" ("I see a foreign-born man with dark hair as a romantic interest in your life" ... er, someone I haven't met yet?). While I won't declare that there are no legitimate psychics out there, I haven't yet met one who could get an accurate reading on me.

While it's fun sometimes to talk to a psychic or "sensitive" just to see if they'll get it right, I tend to trust my own perceptions much more than I trust the word of someone else. I've had my share of what might be called paranormal experiences, including out-of-body experiences and "contacts from the dead," but I'm also very much aware how easily the mind can play tricks. I can't claim that my subjective experience was the "truth" - I like to think so, and I keep an open mind about stuff like this, but I also won't swear to its legitimacy.

Like you, though, I don't see any reason to stomp on another person's way of dealing with grief, loss, or the daily stresses of life. If they're right, well, they'll still be right, no matter what you say or think. If they're wrong, then those beliefs will die with them and it won't make any difference - but it gave them some comfort during their lifetime. The only thing I truly object to, is someone trying to force me to believe (or not believe) as they do.