The Lost art of child discipline...

[TheMightyFavog]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/10/AR2007091001174.html

Great article!

[MrCoffee]

1. joey ramone was right

beat on the brat with a baseball bat oh yeah.

[Pool Hall Ace]

2. The author talks about "the look."

Oh, do I remember my mother's. :scared:

[Kajsa]

4. Me too, Ace!

According to my son,
I also possess the
" Oh-Oh Look"

:scared:

[Kajsa]

3. There are many good points brought out

in this article.

As a substitute teacher, I deal with some extreme behaviors
in the classroom.

Teaching a young person how to better prepare for the
outside world is an important part of my teaching strategy.

[skygazer]

5. Actually, I thought it was a useless article

The author doesn't really offer any ways of effectively instilling respect or discipline, just bemoans the lack of it and at the end tacks on a list of extremely vague ideas like "let's start worrying less whether our kids are happy all the time and more about whether we are enjoying them and ourselves." How the hell is that helpful?

[Deja Q]

7. Probably because the end of the world is nigh and it's every man for himself.

:(

Brought to everyone in part by kids who have no respect... :crazy:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

11. Exactly. Another "whatever happened to the good old days" article.

News flash, Ms Dalton: The good old days weren't so great.

[Duppers]

18. totally agree!

neither 'extreme' is good.

kids need attention and our childhood bonding is the root of our humanity, imho.

[Shakespeare]

6. Wow. Excellent article.

We're raising a nation of little dubyas. Not good.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

8. I don't see a problem with letting a kid know they've got talent...

as long as it's backed up with the expectation of hard work in the area in which they're gifted.

I can't help thinking that parents don't spout nasty jibes at their kids because they're uncalled for. Perhaps if today's parents had been told simply, "No. You have to be patient, even though it's hard." instead of "Keep your goddam shirt on!", they wouldn't now suffer from the insecurities that keep them from being effective parents.

[Ellen Forradalom]

9. Baby boomers bemoaning lack of respect for authority???

Now that's just rich.

[Deja Q]

10. Not everybody under the age of 60 is bad...

Still, there is an irony that is almost amusing.

[Ellen Forradalom]

14. Precisely, Hypno. It's the irony that's killing me

The generation that broke every rule in the book plus a few that weren't are now wringing their hands over the disobedience of the younger generation.

[Kajsa]

23. --and-- their "damn music".

History does repeat itself.

;-)

[raccoon]

20. Yeah, the Boomers should have just respected authority and not protested the draft

and the Vietnam War.

:sarcasm:

Then there would still be a draft today, and no problem getting enough troops to invade whatever country the neocons wanted to.

[Ellen Forradalom]

24. Nixon just gave them "the look"...

...and they went willingly into battle.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. Some of us got "the look" from LBJ

Now, THERE was someone who could cast "the look".

Nixon was a wimp.

:hi:

[libodem]

12. It's important to open the dialog

about this. My theory is that society swings to extremes either way on most issues. I think different generations have different general temperaments based on the previous generation that raised them. As a baby boomer, my parents were absolutely Authoritarian. With my boys, I was divorced, and had the type of self-esteem that comes from being parented by bullies. I didn't want my kids to hate me, like I had my parents. We lived like a committee. I considered their feelings, wants and desires. I asked instead of demanded and threatened. I was a poor disciplinarian. It was hard to come up with logical consequences but I didn't want to spank them for everything like my parents had. And then all this chatter started about not being a friend to your kid. I don't think I was the only one. I think it was a trend. Generation 'X' will have an equal and opposite reaction to being raised like the box-car children, where the mother was more like a big sister. I think you get my drift. I was just reading a New Yorker article about colic. Pick them up...let them cry? What to do?

[TheMightyFavog]

13. The boys at Fark were discussing this article.. This response made me laugh.

"I'm going to punish my kids with C-Span. They'll wish I beat them after they have to sit in a chair and watch a few hours of meetings of the House Ways and Means Committee."

:rofl:

[XemaSab]

15. This is written by a kiddie shrink.

Note well she only sees the little shits who won't behave. :P

[Pithlet]

16. I know plenty of parents who use those "colorful phrases"

Myself included. It seems the new vogue is the "Parents These Days" article. I've never known anyone who sounds anything like the parents in these articles. I also think parents act differently when they know they're being observed, especially if it's by a specialist. They're probably not going to use those colorful phrases so much, then. What they're observing may be the parent's attempt at putting their best foot forward. I don't think it's indicative of some massive change in how people parent these days.

[DarkTirade]

17. There's always the South Park method...

*smack* SIT DOWN AND STUDY!!!!

:evilgrin:

[Lyric]

19. Effective discipline technique for shirking chores

Meaningless manual labor. It works like a charm for my son, although we only use that particular punishment when he's shirking on helping out in the house.

For example, last week my son dragged a bunch of toys and books into the living room and didn't pick them back up, even after I explicitly told him to. His punishment? I gave him a 2 ounce paper cup and a half-bucket of water, put the bucket on the front deck and told him he wasn't allowed to move it, and made him water the big tree in the backyard with the teeny little cup. He had to fill up his cup from the bucket, walk across the deck without spilling, go down the steps, and walk 25 feet through the yard to dump 2 ounces of water on the tree's roots, then trudge all the way back to do it again. And again. And again. And again.

My theory is that he's going to realize very quickly that the punishment for failing to help keep the house picked up costs a LOT more time and work than picking up after himself does. He found the whole thing amusing at first, but after the 10th trip or so he started to get bored and tired and had barely made a dent in the bucket's water level at all. ;) (My son is a tall and vigorous seven and a half years old, by the way.)

Plus, it has the added bonus of being extra exercise--something all kids can use more of.

[hedgehog]

32. Sounds similar to our method of handling bickering and teasing: we made

them run around the house several times. Since bickering and teasing usually come out of boredom and excess energy, that took care of the problem. Your method and ours only work if there is an underlying discipline that means the kids will take their punishment. If I could figure out how we established that control, I could out-do Dr. Phil!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

21. My kids are 7 and 8

and they understand that I will not put up with any kind of crap. No, I do not hit them ---

[Ellen Forradalom]

25. Exactly.

My son is 8. Behavior problems are just that, problems to be solved, not tolerated. His full participation is in the solution is expected.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

29. Yep

kids can really throw you for a loop. They can work a room better than Don Rickles at a roast. I usually give my kids the option:

You can either stop what you are doing right now and be a functioning member of society or:

You can have your computer taken away for a day (or whatever crashes into my brain at the moment)

[nini]

33. then you're not one of the parents in question -which is good

The article is about those parents who want to be their kids' buddy before their parent - not ALL parents.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. Brilliant!! Some of the child-havers here are gonna go fuckiin' ballistic, though!

"How dare you suggest my child should follow common rules of etiquette in public?!?!?!?!?!?!"


Here's the sentence that sums it all up for me:

"unrealistically positive self-appraisal" was linked to aggression, crime and violence.

[regularguy]

26. Eh, bunch of vague blather.

How does she know this:
"These days, that look seems to have been replaced by a feeble nod of parental acquiescence -- and an earnest acknowledgment of "how hard it is to be a kid these days."
I'm a parent, most of the people I know are parents, and this doesn't ring true.

I suspect the article is particularly about the upper class white people that this person comes in contact with. What percentage of parents have the time for "over-parenting" or the funds for "frenetic investment in their academic, sporting and social achievements"? I realize I'm that one is not supposed to question the sacredness of the whiny complaint with actual reality, but I'm calling crapola here.

[PRETZEL]

27. I read the article a couple of times

and for the most part it is a generalization of the differences in parenting philosophies.

I know I was raised in the old school mode of the "look". My parents also weren't above using physical discipline either. We weren't beat for the sheer pleasure of it, but as a tool (and quite effective one at that) to show that we have crossed that line of respect. That is the same philosophy that my ex-wife and I have tried to use in raising our kids. I'm not saying that we were correct or that it's the best way, but it was the way we were both raised. We were (and I wish I still was) very active with their interests and doing everything we could to help them achieve in whatever they wanted to do. We didn't stop them from participating in any activity they wanted and even if it was something we both felt they wouldn't enjoy or be good at, we didn't stop them and we were there with them to help and encourage them to do the best they could. For us, it was always "Do the best you can but make sure it is the best you can".

I contrast this with my current situation. Any person dealing with step children (especially adolesents) knows that what you did with your own kids may not be the way they were raised. I'm finding this lesson out the very, very, very hard way. My wife's kids (note: only her son lives with us. she also has a grown daughter and her other daughter lives with dad) were raised without (at least by my estimation) any boundaries what so ever. This article talks about the kids ruling the parents and "anything and everything" goes without consequences. These are my step kids (except the oldest who is totally opposite from her half-siblings) to a T. From the abusive language to the absolute total lack of respect for us. But I don't blame the kids, that is how they were raised. I also suspect that that is how they were raised also. Both my wife and her ex come from families where money wasn't and issue (unlike me who grew up a half step above poverty) and who knew that they could get what they wanted by simply asking(edit: or throwing a temper tantrum). NO became a foreign word to them. But NO is also a foreign word to my wife so how can the kids learn a lesson their own parents haven't learned?

[grasswire]

28. I call that phenomenon the "tyranny of mediocrity"

The trend to allow a child to think that he/she excels in everything he/she attempts and every attempt equal in value has been extremely damaging to young people and to our culture as a whole. Two examples:

1. Watch a talent competition. Those cut by judges will be very agitated by being dismissed. They refuse to believe they are not talented enough to continue. This is a direct result of being repteatedly told how special and wonderful they are in every aspect of their lives. "Baby, you're the best singer in the world! You can be on top!"

2. My niece, now fifteen, was told in all her growing up years that she was an excellent writer and artist, as well as an accomplished dancer and fashion designer. She believed the words, and refused repeatedly to take any classes in dance, art, writing, etc. "I already know how to do that!" She is now without any particular accomplishments, still believing what she was told. Some other kids are getting the fruits of labor -- of lessons and practice. Too bad.

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. We certainly see that on American Idol!

People flabbergasted that their utterly awful "performance" was bad - how many times has a wannabe said "But my parents/family tell me I sing great! You don't know nothin'!"