My daughter's ex-boyfriend had his mom IM her. I am so aggravated.

[seaglass]

My daughter broke up with her bf by the end of her first week in college (woohoo!). He called her, IM'd her and texted her multiple times a day wanting to know where she was, who she was with, what she was doing and would get mad if she didn't respond right away or he didn't like her answers. He also had a friend that went to school with her that reported back to him (only once - but still - creepy). She finally couldn't take it anymore and broke up with the controlling, manipulative little bastard.

He has not stopped the IM'ing, texting, calling. Then he had his sister IM my daughter to tell her how heartbroken he was. OK. But a couple days ago his mom IM'd my daughter. She told my daughter that she broke her son's heart and that he cried in his mom's arms like a baby, something he hadn't done since he was a little boy. He's 22 BTW.

WTF is with these people? It's not enough that my daughter's ex-bf manipulated her, now he gets his sister and mom into the act too?

I feel like calling them to tell them all to fuck off but I would NEVER actually do it.

I don't like the idea of a 40-something year old woman manipulating my 18 yo daughter and am not sure I can hold back on giving her a call if she does it again...or should I just butt out?

[Callalily]

1. This is creepy!

She should block all their numbers/addresses from her phone/computer. If she's still being harassed, she should contact the authorities.

Additionally, she should NOT reply or contact any them of them.

Just my humble opinion.

[seaglass]

2. I think it's creepy too. I don't know how his mom IM'd her, if it

was under my daughter's ex-bf's sn or not. Sometimes my daughter is too nice, I know she hasn't blocked him yet because I think she is trying to be civil but IMHO she should just block them all and be done with it.

[Gormy Cuss]

3. No reply is best.

If his sister and mother are trying to manipulate her, she's well rid of the whole lot of them.
Since the ex-BF is a manipulator, ask your daughter if she thinks he would stoop so low as to pose as his sister or mother by sending IMs that she would think were from them.

[midnight armadillo]

4. Two words: "Restraining Order"

That'll teach the little bastard.

[Deja Q]

8. I agree entirely.

It's disrespectful, crude, and downright frightening. She broke things off, he needs to respect that. Maybe the order will help.

[seaglass]

9. She thinks she can handle him so we'll see how it goes. I

wouldn't put up with his shit but I am trying very hard to let her make her own decisions.

[midnight armadillo]

31. As an adult...

...my tolerance for that sort of bullshit is way, way less than it was when I was 18 or 20.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

5. The apple does'nt fall far from the tree in that family.

Your daughter should get a new IM username all together. If she has a Facebook account she should put it on privacy control and also if she has a Myspace page either set it to private or get rid of it. The internet has a lot of information and you'd be surprise what he could get and find out her daily schedule.

If that was me I would report the mofo to the police for harrasment and if they don't stop , wreck some shop.They should'nt be stressing your daughter out.

[seaglass]

7. I guess it bothers me more than her. She didn't respond to

his mom and she said she won't even bother blocking them because she doesn't care what they say to her.

[mzteris]

6. change her phone number

and all her other screen info names - oh - and copy out all the dates, times, messages, as well as write down all of the other incidents.

If he suddenly "shows up" on her doorstep - or yours - get a restraining order, pronto.

He sounds like a whack job and the more info you have to give the police to get the RO sooner based on what's already happened, the better.


edit to add stuff.

[Richardo]

27. At least.

Good advice, mzt

[noamnety]

10. Dealing with stalkers

"Each phone company works a little differently. Some will willingly assist you if you are receiving harassing, threatening, or obscene calls. Others will want you to file a police report first - and obtain a case number - THEN they will cooperate with law enforcement to document the harassment for purposes of prosecution. Call your local police department and file a police report. If you have any harassing messages on your answering machine or voice mail, play them for the officer and then find out what options are available to you.

Then call the harrassement division of the phone company. Tell them you are receiving threatening and harassing calls. They will send you some paper work to fill out and to ID the person and numbers they call from. In some places, they can internally put a device on your phone to track where they are calling from and how many times they call. It goes for all incoming calls. You have to keep track of them too. After 2 or 3 weeks or whenever they have enough to go with, they will turn it over to the police dept. and it goes from there. It can go to arrest and prosecution."

...

"If you are still communicating with your abuser on the phone, you may want to seriously consider getting an answering machine that allows you to record your conversations. In many states you need the other person's permission to record the call. Check the front of your phonebook to get this information. Then start the recording and say very clearly something along the lines of: "I want to inform you that from this point forward this conversation is being taped. If you continue talking to me, I will assume that you are giving me permission to tape this. Do you understand what I just said?" Of course, that may mean that he or she will simply hang up -- good!"

http://www.aardvarc.org/stalking/phone.shtml

[jobycom]

11. Sounds like he's controlling and manipulative of everyone in his life.

I'm glad you are supporting your daughter in this, and advising against giving in to this guy. He's too used to getting what he wants, it sounds like, and knows all the buttons to push with everyone. That's a scary guy. I hope she's far away from him.

I had a girlfriend in high school who wouldn't let go. She threatened suicide if I broke up with her, turned people against me. She even called my parents once while I was on a date with someone else, and made them think we were still together, and that I was cheating. My father lectured me sternly on how I needed to learn to treat women better. Because of that, I broke off the other relationship, and wound up with the girlfriend I had tried to break up with. Still regret that. Later I found out she was seeing other guys even when we were committed--she even told one of them so many stories about me that he came to my work and threatened me, then she told me all kinds of stories about him, including that he had raped her. We came very close to a very brutal fight.

Bad guy. Maybe you should call his mom and tell her the full story. Please try to do so when you are not angry, and do NOT make it about her. Make it only about her son and why your daughter broke up with him, and about the concerns you have about the extremes he is going to. If you attack, she won't hear what you are saying, but maybe if you speak one concerned parent to another, she will.

Good luck. I think you are right to be concerned.

[seaglass]

12. I don't think he manipulates his mom - I think she enables him.

What else can you say about a mom who makes excuses for him while he sits at home all day, not working, not going to school and not trying to do either?

I also found out from my daughter that his mom has her own s/n and is constantly checking my daughter's away messages. WTF.

I'm sorry about what happened to you with your ex-gf, that is truly awful. I also had a LTR relationship in HS but when we broke up I never threatened him or manipulated him in any way, as devastated as I was. I think that kind of behavior is really sick. :-(

[jobycom]

17. It's mutual

He cries in her arms, that's manipulation.

For the record, I wasn't smart enough to break up with the girlfriend permanently. I married her. In her defense, she had changed quite a bit before I did. Although not as much as I had thought. She was, and still is, a first class manipulator, and I supposed that made me an enabler, although as much as we fought, I doubt I made it easy for her. I finally left her when I caught her doing it to our kids. To this day my oldest daughter starts off every conversation about her mother with "What lies is she telling about me now?"

I'm not telling you (and the whole wide world :) ) that to trash my ex, just to warn you not to underestimate what's happening. Your daughter's situation sounds a lot like what I went through, and I was too private to tell people the full story. I believed I was the only one who really understood her, and I didn't want to make her life worse by exposing her. So I stayed quiet. So people took her side, and I eventually felt pressured into getting back together with her. I felt like I had no choice.

Make sure your daughter knows she's got support. Might save her some grief in the future.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SPKrazy]

14. maybe they don't seem to be a total stranger or utter stranger

and if the scenario is true, then it is one that would concern me.

a little hyperventilating is sometimes good. i mean, venting in a place where it prevents doing something absurd can't be all wrong.

it would be an interesting sociological study... the whole study of internet communities of sorts.

there are all kinds of relationship degrees here on du and in the lounge, there are people who don't know each other, people who do. people who have all kinds of connections, so to assume that it is the case of an utter stranger to everyone is probably a false premise to begin on. One would have to understand the relational dynamics between the OP and the repliers as well as the context of the community and the tendency towards a follower mentality that may evolve here as well.

:hi:

[seaglass]

15. Does your mom get involved in your relationships too? Would that

be why you think it's typical? You are an odd one.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seaglass]

18. They're are all kinds of relationships and experiences in the world

and they're not all like yours. Imagine that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Oh, I believe that

You're the one who keeps bringing my relationships into it. You're the one projecting ONE kind of reasonable relationship, not me.

I also don't think you're a credible source on any of this, but that's beside the point, I guess. You see what you want to see, which is fine with me. My only point is that it's not so strange.

[noamnety]

21. That's not typical relationship ending stuff in my world

It's stalking and harassment.

And this is not normal dating behavior in my world: "wanting to know where she was, who she was with, what she was doing and would get mad if she didn't respond right away or he didn't like her answers."

If that's normal in your world, maybe you should question why that is.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. I think there's a two week period

after the ending of most relationships where you can see this sort of thing happen. It's the denial phase. If it goes past that, then I'm happy to call it stalking and harassing.

As for the other stuff, yes, he sounds somewhat controlling, but I don't think it's that unusual for a boyfriend who has just seen his girlfriend go off to college without him. You're talking the first two or three weeks of being apart, and everybody knows the relationship is going to end because she's off at college meeting new people, etc. The thing is doomed. So again, I don't see it as completely off the scales behavior. It seems typical, given that he was probably a controlling douchebag to begin with, and the separation only heightened the anxiety. I saw this happen a million times when I was in college with all sorts of friends. Stop pretending that the guy is Ted Bundy. It's ridiculous.

But all that aside, the main issue I was addressing was the thoroughly uncritical acceptance of the OP's description, despite her obvious bias. It's a sad statement on mob mentality even here, though it will no doubt be parsed as some kind of "community friendship" nonsense. The OP seems utterly incredible to me, and yet people have taken her biased position and even heightened it on their own. It's laughable. But par for the course, I think.

[skygazer]

28. I don't think its either mob mentality or community friendship

I think its the natural result of being involved in an online community of several thousand people - you have to take a certain amount of what's posted here at face value. Is this person really who they say they are? Did these events really happen? We have no way of knowing any of that.

There are sometimes posts that seem so off the wall that I suspect them of being false or the behavior of trolls. Usually, I just choose not to post in them. But for the most part, I simply accept what a poster is saying as truth (as they see it) and respond accordingly. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. That's not going to make any real difference in anything in the long run.

The other thing is consistency and when you're around for a while, you start to pick up which posters show consistency and which don't. I have no reason to doubt HopeLives because she's been pretty consistent in my recollection.

[noamnety]

32. Is it normal, or incredible? I'm confused.

You say you don't believe the OP. And then you say all that behavior described in it sounds normal to you. ?

I believe it, and it sounds controlling and warning bells would be going off. Two weeks of that crap ain't acceptable. Having other people contact you to make you feel like shit (sister calling, mother calling) is unacceptable, and it's emotional blackmail for the mom to be calling to say he was crying in her arms. WTF. Is that designed to coerce her into dating a guy she doesn't want to be with, like she is obligated to go out with him for eternity now? Or is it just generic guilt-dumping - you made him feel like shit, so now I'm gonna try to make you feel bad about it?

Two or three days of that would piss me off, let alone weeks of it.

[seaglass]

37. Thanks lwfern. I really don't get any thrills from lying to people

and felt this was a safe place to talk about it since no one knows me, my daughter or the other family.

I expected the behavior from him, she tried to break up with him once before and he did it then. I just wasn't expecting his mom to get involved and think she really crossed the line.

No matter what the poster says who is accusing me of lying, my daughter did not appreciate the IM from his mother and did not respond to it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. I have not once accused you of lying

I have accused you of bias, which is a different thing altogether. I have no doubt that you believe you are telling it truthfully. But your perceptions are clearly colored to an extreme, and you are therefore not a credible witness.

It's interesting that your daughter appears to have no agency at all. She "tried to break up with him" and he pulled this stuff before. Wow. Is that how it works? So it was a failed break-up, all because of his manipulative ways, eh? You probably can't even see how silly that sounds. You can't see straight through your hatred of this kid, and that's fairly obvious. It has nothing to do with lying.

[seaglass]

46. You are beginning to bore me. I get your opinion. You don't

believe me. Unless you are having too much fun berating me, I suggest you find another thread that doesn't make you so upset.

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. LOL

I'm not the least bit upset. If you look at the numerous attacks on me in this thread, you'll see that I'm the least upset of all the posters on this thread.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. You're confused because you want to be

The behavior at its broadest (contact after the break-up, especially in the first few weeks) is normal. The very negative spin put on this contact by the OP is incredible, or better, non-credible. I have no doubt that the ex and even his family has contacted the daughter. I do doubt that it is as serious a situation as the OP portrays, or that the contacts are as manipulative as described. And the Mom didn't call. She IM'd, which seems very mild. See, you've already hysterically elevated it far beyond the situation even as described. QED.

It's very clear that the OP has disapproved of the relationship for quite some time. I don't trust her to give a good accounting of these events. But one can see the faint outlines of what has actually occurred through the OP's ridiculous bias, and that faint outline does not seem near as threatening as the mob on this thread has imagined it.

[noamnety]

42. You might want to avoid the term "hysterical"

You've used it a lot in this thread. Not only is it a personal attack, but it's also quite sexist.

[MrsMatt]

44. You're right about that

I'd forgotten that "hysterical" was a sexist term. It's a good thing to remember, whatever the context.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Wandering womb...right

Terms can change meaning. Nice try, though.

Hysterical isn't a personal attack. It's a characterization of behavior, not the person.

[LanternWaste]

60. my denial phase usually goes something like this...

I've always thought of myself as a pretty normal guy and my denial phase usually goes something like this...

"What a b*tch! (Two scotch rocks, then) Hmmm... I wonder if that cutie at the pharmacy is single..."

Granted, when I was younger it was a bit different-- rather than the scotch, I'd smoke a coupla joints..."

These days, if a broke up with a young lady who then spent the next two weeks doing multiple end-arounds to contact me, I'd get that, "this is getting a little too creepy-- even for me" feeling.

On the other hand, I freely admit that I subscribe to Mob Mentality-- ($36.00/year for a 12 issue subscription in Canada and the U.S.)

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Oh, sweetie

You know that's against the rules...

[noamnety]

43. You also might want to avoid calling women "sweetie"

which is patronizing, and again, sexist.

It's particularly ill-advised to repeatedly use sexist language in an argument where you are defending men who harass and stalk women after a break up, and defining that as "normal" behavior.

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. You might want to know all the facts

The previous poster I am referring to as "sweetie" referred to me as "honey" in the subject line of his or her deleted personal attack. I can't blame you for not knowing the context, since the post was deleted. I can blame you for making judgments without knowing the context, however. I get it. You don't like my position here. You can't seem to address it, so you accuse me of being patronizing and a sexist. I understand. I get it.

[noamnety]

49. The previous poster may have been patronizing as well.

You made a decision to respond in kind, and to repeatedly refer to women you've disagreed with here as "hysterical."

I have addressed your position, several times. Once more, in case you thought I was avoiding that:

It's abnormal, controlling, and unhealthy to repeatedly harass a women through multiple forms of contact for weeks if she's made it clear she doesn't want to hear from you. It's abnormal, controlling, and unhealthy to have various members of your family engage in that harassment on your behalf. It's abnormal, controlling, and unhealthy to not understand that no means no. It's abnormal, controlling and unhealthy to call someone who is no longer involved with your son or daughter to try to coerce them through emotional blackmail into reentering into that relationship, after you have broken up with that person.

If you MUST use the word hysterical, perhaps if would be better applied to the person who continues to call, to email, to IM, and who enlists the aid of a squad of family members to do the same, after a relationship has ended.

Stop contacting me. EOM. <--- not hysterical.

Are you there? Call me. Listen to me. Pay attention to me. Why can't you still go out with me? I can't believe this is really over. I refuse to accept that we've broken up. OMG, why haven't you called me back? <--- abnormal and creepy.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Uh, no

Referring to the "honey"-er as "sweetie" was indeed a response in kind, but meant to highlight the inappropriate nature of HIS or HER own form of address. Nice interpretation though. As for "hysterical," is everyone on this thread a woman? I had no idea. Again, you're seeing what you want to see. You say I've referred to women as hysterical. Wrong. I referred to the general response as hysterical, and that goes for men as well as women. You see what you want to see. Or worse, you're pretending to see it in order to strengthen your online argument, which would just be weird.

Is the young man's behavior pathetic? Yes. Inappropriate? Maybe. Abnormal and creepy? No. If he persists, I'd agree. But in the first few weeks after a break-up? He's in the denial stage, trying to negotiate. It's pathetic and sad, but not abnormal. He'll go away soon enough. If he doesn't, then he's getting into the abnormal and creepy mode. For now, I see no evidence of that other than the OP's biased description.

[noamnety]

51. You're assuming the OP was biased.

If it wasn't biased, if it was an accurate portrayal of events, would you classify the behavior as already creepy and abnormal?

(will take the responding in kind defense under advisement. I try not to respond in kind in that way - I just say bluntly, look, that's patronizing, but people respond to patronization in different ways.)

You should seriously consider dropping hysterical as an insult from your vocabulary. Negative slurs deriving from women's anatomy and negative stereotypes are sexist. Even if you think you are using them against men (although it appears in this thread you've been using it directed at women). If you call a white person the N word, guess what, it's still racist.

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. Whatever

It's very clear from the context that I'm using hysterical to refer to mob behavior. And while it may be true that categorizing a mob as hysterical was originally drawn from sexist assumptions (in LeBon, Sighele, Tarde and others), it has since changed meanings. Mob hysteria derives from the sexist psychology of hysteria, to be sure, but is so far removed that to fetishize the word hysteria is ridiculous. Your analogy is likewise off the charts. Would somebody saying "That was hysterical" as in "really funny" also be sexist, simply as a result of the word's origins? Would it even register with anybody that "hysterical" referred to the uterus, and through all manner of twists and turns came to occupy a position in the early history of psychology as a condition affecting mainly middle class women? Please. Would someone saying "That show was hysterical" receive the same reaction as somebody saying "That guy is nigger-rich." If not, then your analogy does not hold. You want to pin the label of sexist on me, go ahead. But it's poor argument and dirty pool.

As for the OP being accurate, that's laughable. The OP is off-the-wall biased. But even if the exact behavior did occur (something I never denied, by the way, since I was focusing on the way it was colored), it would fall into the range of normal behavior for young people dealing with a break-up. Is it at the high end of that range? Sure. It's not a good response. But the notion that the guy is a stalker because he's called and IM'd in the first few weeks after a break-up is just laughable. If he's still pulling this shit in a month, maybe.

[zonkers]

20. Disengage.

[Heidi]

22. Please be keeping a record of incidents, times, dates, etc.

If nothing more comes of this, you can throw away your notes. But if it becomes something more (and I hope, truly, that it doesn't), you're going to be asked for the details. Any good attorney (I'm not one and I don't play one on the internets) would advise you to have a record of the offending events, with details.

[skygazer]

23. While I understand allowing your daughter to make her own decisions

I also think that an 18-year-old girl probably doesn't have the experience to deal with something like this on her own.

I really think that you need to point out to her that trying to be nice or polite or thoughtful is not the way to deal with someone who is not showing any of those qualities and who is essentially stalking her.

I would strongly suggest that she change her number and IM and I'd be alert to any further harassment. Better to be on the safe side, imo.

[HEyHEY]

24. Yikes.... time to find some hired goons

[DarkTirade]

29. Wow... just wow.

I mean, I was young and got my heart broken a few times... but I never pulled any shit like that. And I always thought I was a bit too clingy. :P

[Pushed To The Left]

52. This guy makes even me look non-emotional, and that ain't easy! n/t

[GoddessOfGuinness]

33. Is she certain these IMs are from his mom and sister?

Don't call anybody; but if someone calls you, you might want to suggest that they get therapy.

[seaglass]

36. I asked my daughter again today and she said that it was definitely

the mom, she could tell by her style and what she said. I didn't ask again about the sister.

No, I'm not planning to call anyone, just mad about his mother getting involved.

[BreweryYardRat]

34. He's a stupid putz.

Goddamn, I'm socially inept, but I'd never do any of the shit he did. That's just a whole new level of screwed-up.

Seconding the restraining order suggestion.

[WindRavenX]

35. wow. That's hella creepy.

:scared:

[Ariana Celeste]

38. I really don't find communication from mom & sister all that odd.

With my last 2 relationships, I was close with the families. With b/f A, when I decided to split up with him, his mom called me up a couple of times, confused, wanting to know what was wrong, if there was anything she could do, telling me how torn apart b/f A was. No big deal.

With b/f B, I split up with him months ago, and I *still* talk to his mom, and his Oma, too.

What you aren't mentioning here is whether or not your daughter had any kind of relationship with his family. If she did, I wouldn't consider the communication odd in the slightest. If, however, she had zero relationship with them, didn't talkto them, had nadda to do with them... *then* I would consider it weird.

The fact that this boyfriend you don't like was manipulative or controlling towards your daughter doesn't mean his family couldn't have genuinely cared for her. And maybe they didn't see the controlling behavior.

My ex's families didn't see the bad parts of my relationship with these guys, so of course they were confused, and a little hurt even. Because as far as they were concerned, I was a part of the family.

[alcibiades_mystery]

56. I suspect you won't be accused of being a troll or a sexist

for making the exact points I made above.

You are, of course, absolutely correct about what was left out of the OP's description.

[Ariana Celeste]

57. nah more often than not,

when i'm actually serious on DU, i'm ignored. go figure.

[seaglass]

59. I have also had relationships with an ex's family, with my longest

pre-marriage relationship I was friends with his mom for years after the relationship ended.

I don't see anything wrong or weird about being friends with family members of an ex. My daughter was friendly, not close, with both his mom and sister and if the IM from his mom had been along the lines we miss you, your ex misses you, sorry things didn't work is there anything I can do, how is school etc. I wouldn't have posted this thread because it would have probably made my daughter feel good rather than bad.

That was not the content or the tone of the IM. The IM contained more than I posted but I don't know what else she said, my daughter said his mom said some mean things to her but I didn't ask what. As far as my daughter is concerned it pissed her off and she's not responding.

I do see your perspective, as I said I have also had a relationship like that, but that is not what is going on here.

[Ariana Celeste]

62. Ahh, alright

I'd still be hesitant to be terribly angry with mom & sister, because who knows what kinds of things the boyfriend might have said to them about her, you know? Not responding is a good choice. She doesn't necessarily need to change her IM or number, but she can block them. If she blocks them and this kind of thing continues, I would suggest to her taking legal action. This is fairly early after the break up and I'm assuming the guy is young, too. It very well could just blow over soon. Of course if at any point she feels her safety is threatened, she should take legal action immediately. It's got to be her decision, though.

[MrsMatt]

40. I'd say to keep out of it

Keep in mind how upset you are that the bf's mother DIDN'T butt out. I agree that she should have stayed out of it, but I also think you should as well. But, as a mother, I understand how you feel, and you shouldn't feel bad about your emotional reaction.

Good luck to your daughter - she sounds like she has her head on her shoulders, and you've raised her to be an independent person capable of handling her own problems.

That said, just stay on the alert for potential weirdness from the boyfriend (and family). One never knows.

[noamnety]

54. I would stay out of it as well.

I'd give my own daughter advice, but I wouldn't contact the ex, or his family. I would advise her to not respond in any way, either, because any sort of response will encourage them, and will also make it much harder to prove harassment and stalking, if the contact has been initiated by both parties.

It's harder to prove you all never wanted to hear from them again if there are phone records showing you called them.

[Blue-Jay]

53. There's only one way to handle this situation.

Beat her up. Use a baseball bat if you have to.

[JVS]

58. LOL WTF?

[texas1928]

61. Make sure she saves the IM's and other messages.

If it comes to it, those will help if you need to get a restraining order.

[Deep13]

63. Your daughter should file a police report.

Telephone harassment is a crime.