hey kids! Want an entry-level job after college? Well guess what: you need experience!

[WindRavenX]

How do you get experience? You get a job!

This catch-22 is making me puke :(

Every entry-level lab job I've applied to has mentioned it's entry level (meaning, anyone with basic college credit OR lab credits should be fine). But then when I inquire as to why my resume has been passed up, it's always "We're looking for experience in the industrial sector". So, I am over-qualified in the technical sense (as I have a TWO full BA with accompanying lab credits) but I don't have any experience because I just graduated.

Awesome! I'm overqualified AND under qualified at the same time!

WEEEEEEE!!!! :(

someone hire me plz. :cry:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

1. Like when I tried to find copywriter jobs.

They'd all say "X years of experience required," which was fine, but they never had an entry-level job that didn't require experience.

:wtf:

[WindRavenX]

3. Seriously, is there a way to address this?

I am getting very close to have a break into depression because of this. Starbucks is fun, but I am BORED to DEATH. I NEED to be in a lab.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

6. Not that I know of.

Of course, I'm the last person to ask about labwork. :rofl:

Maybe you could talk to some universities?

[dropkickpa]

63. Internships

seem to be the way to go a lot. Also, getting a job in the same area, but not necessarily in a lab helps. I know a guy who had the same problem, he took a job as the "dishwasher" (cleans and sterilizes lab gear) and, about 7 month after he got that, because his was a familiar face, he got a job he'd previously been passed up on. Getting a job sucks. Good lock!

[datasuspect]

2. it helps to have a well-connected family member.

[barb162]

52. Sometimes it 's the only way.

[Deja Q]

4. They have to do it that way; so they can claim all sorts of Americans aren't qualified.

I can't think of any other reason at this point.

It's a joke.

Nor should a simple $12 helpdesk call center job require a BA, but that's what they want. $12/hr for a job that can't even begin to pay back a $50k loan?!

:wow:

[datasuspect]

5. $12/hour and a BA required?

that is absurd.

[Deja Q]

7. And quite a common requirement too; it boggles the mind.

:(

And, oh yeah, it's absurd.

[WindRavenX]

13. HT is right...and yes, it's laughable

A BA is now essentially what a HS diploma was 2 decades ago...a MA is needed for pretty much any decent job it seems.

It's pathetic because it cheapens what a college degree and experience should be: it shouldn't be something just to get a job, it should be something to make your mind expand.

[datasuspect]

17. do you have a strictly scientific degree

or something like chemical engineering?

[WindRavenX]

21. Just a basic biology degree, but with quite a bit of lab credits.

I've done a lot of cellular/molecular lab work, which is what many, if not most, biotech/pharm companies need.

To give you an idea of my current level of utter frustration, there are lab positions that I have applied to which have stated they merely want a *HS DEGREE* with a few hours of college lab; after following up on some of these positions, I was told my resume was passed up for a lack of experience.

Now, doesn't that sound just a wee bit odd?

[datasuspect]

24. that is very curious

are you open to relocating?

i wonder if utah is gonna be a good place to find a biotech position.

just in a cursory search of merck's careers website, they have a staff biologist position in PA.

[WindRavenX]

26. the salt lake area has a TON of biotech companies, actually

which is why I decided to even relocate out here.

There are quite a bunch of job openings, and I've been making sure to follow-up on every one that I apply to.

I'm using monster.com--is there something about that that would be possibly hindering my success?

[datasuspect]

27. i'm not all too familiar with utah

monster.com is a good resource, but you don't want to rely solely on that.

you have a lot of leverage to stand on. a potential employer will take you very seriously.

the key is to conduct your due diligence and find out who the hiring managers are in various organizations, by all means, use the interfaces the companies have and go through HR, but don't rely solely on them.

ferreting the information is very time consuming and making the contacts cold with no introductions can be very disheartening, but if you come up with a good strategy, it's very likely an effective manager will admire your pluck and determination.

check your PM.

[JANdad]

29. By-pass HR and find out

who the lab super is and talk directly with him/her...

[Lance_Boyle]

68. job search sites, including monster, suck balls.

Visit your local universities' HR sites for lab jobs. Visit each local biotech company's own website instead of finding their listings on monster. At worst, find a headhunter who fills lab positions in your local area.

Or lie about your qualifications WRT the "overqualified" positions. "Oh, did I say I had a BS? No, I meant I have a BA in basketweaving. Lab work sounds fun, though!"

[WindRavenX]

9. If I do not get a real job by November 21st, I am fucked. My loans kick in.

If you are not rich, going to college is now a huge risk it seems :(

College made me who I am intellectually and spiritually...and now I'm getting bruised for it.

Society really does want us fat, dumb, and in the dark.

[datasuspect]

10. you can put off the loans for quite a long time.

if you have multiple loans, get them consolidated.

http://loanconsolidation.ed.gov/borrower/borrower.shtml

then apply for forbearances. you can take them out for a year at a time, interest accrues, but you won't be as screwed as you would be in the short term if you're looking at big monthly nut.

[Deja Q]

14. With the world's problems, you'd think they'd want more scientists and such...

Even the ministers and priests on the fundie Christian cable channel say not to fear because we need our next generation of scientists...

Unfortunately, their words sound nice but in reality they're probably boinking little boys than giving us real reasons to have faith in the future. :(


I'm so sorry you're in this situation. :hug:

Things have got to get better.

[trogdor]

79. I 'interviewed' for one of those.

It was an ISP based in Albany that catered to late-90's dotcoms. They took a whole bunch of us into a lecture hall, and showed us a video. It was the most content-free POS I have ever seen. Basically, they're looking for the top 5% of our class. BFD. So is everybody else. Then they have the recruiter describe what the job is. They would have me move from Utica to the Albany area to work the graveyard shift at the help desk. For this I studied my ass off and got a BS in computer science with a magna cum laude and a 3.8 GPA. "Everybody does this until they've paid their dues," the guy said. "Oh, really?" I said to myself.

Then they passed out applications. At the top of the application, it stated in bold letters that employees were hired "at will" and could be fired for any reason at any time. Yes, they put this in the application, as if we didn't already understand this. So I filled my out - hey, why not? - and put in an expected starting salary about 20% higher than the going rate for entry-level software engineers. Never heard from them again, but I did read in the paper about a year later that they suddenly went out of business (extreme insolvency) and put a few thousand people our of work. Yep, right about the time I'd have been closing on a house. Good timing.

[KG]

8. I just want to say one word to you - just one word.

Plastics

[datasuspect]

11. not too far from the truth

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Have you considered graduate school?

You've certainly got the smarts.

[WindRavenX]

16. I'm concerned about the moneys.

And as for smarts...well, I had some serious depression issues from my fucked up family Fresh/Sophomore year...GPA is barely a 3.0. I'd doubt I'd get into grad school.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. What's your field of expertise?

I thought it was biology, wasn't it?

[WindRavenX]

19. Yes, w/ a focus on evolutionary bio/genetics. I also have a BA in English.

Which, one would think would make me even more desirable for writing in the lab...as some scientists aren't exactly the best writers :D

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Well there you go.

If you go to grad school in the sciences, they'll like pay your tuition and provide you a ~20,000 stipend for grading papers.

[WindRavenX]

23. I am going to look into grad programs

Thank you for your input...I'm really lost here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Great! Good for you. n/t

[datasuspect]

22. you are in an excellent position to market yourself

not only can you pass muster on any scientifically rigorous requirements for a potential position, you can have the analytical and communication skills necessary to bridge any gaps between the science people and other less technical constituencies in an organization.

[trogdor]

80. What's your GPA as an upperclassman?

Some grad schools take that into consideration. Lots of freshmen get shitty grades.

[applegrove]

15. Get a volunteer position at exactly the type of place you want to work.

Write a whole bunch of places and offer to intern for free. That's what I would do.

[Akoto]

28. I've had exactly this problem lately.

"Hi! Our job is entry-level. Perfect for a newcomer. Only three years experience required!"

[WindRavenX]

31. EXACTLY. Isn't that the most fucked up shit ever?

What the hell do they want from me? I should be getting 35K/yr, but I'll settle to pay my fucking bills.

America--fuck yeah! :eyes:

[Nikia]

75. Don't ask for too much money

Unless you know that other entry level people at the company you are applying too are making more than that, do not ask for more than $12/hour or $25,000/year for an entry level BA/BS lab job. It sounds like you aren't getting that far in the process but sometimes that is information that is listed on online employment profiles or temp agency applications.
That might sound like not very much, but it is typical.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. I know. It takes a long time to break that cycle

Even with advanced degrees it can take a long time. Is volunteer work a possibility? Did you do any career-related work in school?

[WindRavenX]

32. well...my ex-circ. activities were mostly GLBTQ advocacy work

I was in student government trying to get the school to, you know, not hate on the gay community. :D

[EstimatedProphet]

35. Are you looking in that career direction?

That might be more successful...also, advocacy of other interests too, maybe...

[WindRavenX]

36. no, not really. It's my stuff I'm passionate about in my free time...

Should I take it off my resume?

[EstimatedProphet]

38. No, I'd say the opposite

Look in your chosen field and also in advocacy. It's worth doing as a career.

[Susang]

33. They expect you to do an internship

In college or directly after. That's why they ask for experience. It sucks, but it's the way things have worked since I graduated college in 1987. I don't know anyone who got a job without some work experience in their field. :shrug:

[WindRavenX]

34. Yeah...

The problem is that it favors wealthy students. I couldn't "do" an internship because I was working 20 hours a week + full time student + 10-15 hours of lab.

During summer I worked full time.

Meanwhile, my colleagues who came from financially stable familes could do internships because their parents paid for rent, food, bills, etc. I couldn't.

So I'm stuck.

[MountainLaurel]

61. Amen

I ran into the same problem in undergrad (journalism). I could have applied for all sorts of internships , but if I was going to eat I had to get paid. (The other issue was that I didn't have a reliable car, which would have made such an internship impossible.) I ended up doing an unpaid internship two days a week at the local rag and making up for it by working extra long days the rest of the week.

[Susang]

71. Oh, I'm with you there

I had to pass on a lot of great opportunities because I had to pay the rent. Like you said, it favors the wealthy, but what doesn't these days? It not only favors wealthy students, businesses basically get free labor from the interns, often well over a 40 hour work week. It's a scam that benefits everyone but the people who actually need the job/experience.

[hedgehog]

37. Check out the temp agencies.

It's experience, it's networking and it's a pay check.

[WindRavenX]

39. they've never called back

I did a temp. agency with Kelly scientific...yeah, nada.

Am I black-listed or something? :P

[Nikia]

72. Did you do a temp agency interview?

Most temp agencies are willing to do a basic interview in person or at least over the phone even if they currently have nothing that would be a good fit. Call during normal business hours and ask to schedule an interview. Once you do the interview, call them during business hours on at least a weekly basis unless they specifically tell you not to call.

[leeroysphitz]

40. Wait until they start telling you about having too MUCH experience...

This is, of course, their way of saying that they don't want to pay you what an experienced person is worth.

[BluePatriot]

41. Oh man, I feel your pain

At this point it's all about "who you know."

If I could go back in time and give myself advice it would be "omg get an internship you're only going to make $2500 over the summer anyway and it's worth it to not spend three years in hell as a overqualified clerky-clerk girl"

You could always try your alumni org., perhaps?

[KitchenWitch]

42. I know you have already graduated from BU but can you maybe do an internship in UT?

[Seashell Eyes]

43. I also feel your pain

It fucking sucks. Here it is all about knowing people. It seems like people advertise jobs that don't exist just so it looks like they're being fair. I work at my mother's work even though it is not in my field because no one else will hire me. And this is with experience at an internship. Fuckers. :grr:

[raccoon]

59. In my workplace, most of the time when a full-time job is advertised,

somebody from within is already lined up for the job.

"It seems like people advertise jobs that don't exist just so it looks like they're being fair."

They do that a lot in my neck of the woods, too.

[Seashell Eyes]

77. It's so shitty that they do that

I once spent two and a half days on an art test for a graphic design job I applied for. It was to recreate a 3d looking race car in Illustrator and design two t-shirts. Then they emailed me a week later to tell me that they just decided to hire in Iowa instead. Assholes. I hate that they wasted my time like that.

[BluePatriot]

67. *waves*

Hi, I also work at my mom's work outside of my field. Waaay outside of my field. Let's hang out and gripe together.

My mom is a manager which makes it pretty hard.

[Seashell Eyes]

76. Hi! I work in a lab doing data analysis

and my field is illustration and graphic design.

[BluePatriot]

78. I work at a freight forwarder

and my degree is in English/art.

The only cool thing about this job is the international aspect. I won tickets to Amsterdam once at a KLM party, and work regularly with folks from Israel/China/London/Saudi Arabia/Singapore. Also, docs for air/sea transportation are standardized worldwide which is completely amazing when you think about it.

I wanted to teach but hated having to play disciplinarian so much. Thinking about law now.

Did you know the Dept. of Commerce has five separate export codes for lima beans? Yeah, I'd take to law, lol.

[pitohui]

44. i thought you needed underpants

i think i'm reading the wrong threads to get advice to change my life :-)

[LostInAnomie]

45. That there is the reason so many people end up getting jobs that don't involve their degrees.

The catch 22 frustrates and infuriates so many people for so long that they finally give up and look for something else.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

46. I don't know if this would be an option for you

but I know that the position of Medical Technologist is in demand right now. It sounds like you have all the prerequisite credits. The only thing you'd have to do is intern for a semester and you'd be certified. My cousin is a Medtech and she says that there are such shortages in the field that anyone with the license can find a job.

[Nikia]

47. Any temp or seasonal jobs

When I graduated from college with a bachelor's in biology, I had the same problem as you. The first lab job I got was a seasonal food processing wc lab position. When I got laid off(for the season), it was a couple of months before I found a job at a temp agency as a lab assistant for the research department at a consumer products company. Instead of taking a lower paid temp assigment at the same company (what they had available after my first assigment ended), I was able to get a full time permanent position at a food company almost a year after graduating college.

[cloudbase]

48. Check out the NOAA officer corps.

I used to sail as an engineering officer on their research ships years ago. The NOAA officers were pretty much all science grads, and while you had to wear a uniform, things were pretty easy going.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

49. That's ALWAYS been the way of it.

Entering the wonderful world of work can be terribly disheartening. Don't believe for a second that you're the first to get sucked into that particular whirlpool- I'd be willing to bet practically everyone here has spun in it more than once.

[mopinko]

50. maybe you aren't aiming high enough?

if you are applying for jobs that will take a hs grad with the right experience, you are not looking at jobs that your degree qualifies you for. aim higher.
doesn't your school have a placement office?

[Wapsie B]

51. Sounds like you've got a bunch of HR geeks who know nothing of your skills

weeding out your resume. This happens in many, if not most industries. People who don't know dime one about most of the jobs they hire for are making decisions based on what keywords are in someone's resume and job app. My suggestion is subvert the process a little. Find a place you'd like to work. Find out the hiring manager and pitch them. What have you got to lose?

My rant is that HR has absolutely NO business making the final decisions as to who gets interviewed or not. Let me do that. I'm the one who knows exactly what skills are needed. Interview in the dept. and then give them to HR to make sure none of those we'd like to hire are serial killers or whatever.

:rant:

[Godhumor]

53. The rule of thumb is 100 resumes...

For 10 interviews and then 3 call backs. It is incredibly discouraging, and I went through something very similar last year with teaching, except I had 5 years of full time instruction and curriculum design under my belt. I went to a huge teacher job fair, a smaller one, I applied to every job in the paper, every ad I could find online for the location where I wanted to work, and went through 15 interviews before finally getting hired 90 minutes away from my home. It was the only job offer I got in 5 months of searching.

My only advice is fight through the frustration and keep sending out your resume to anyone you can think of. My job came from a resume I dropped off at a school that wasn't even hiring at the time.

[BlooInBloo]

56. Unless you're in a high demand field. I apply for one job online, get a call back in 1.5 hours - lol

[MonkeyFunk]

54. This is why kids should work through high school and college

Seriously.

I was a hiring manager for many years, and I was always reluctant to hire somebody just out of college who hadn't had any previous work experience.

I want to know that you can show up on time, showered and dressed, and not expect free milk and cookies and an afternoon nap.

[BlooInBloo]

55. lol! It's been like that for 20 years. Every year, kids think it's new...

... Do projects, internships, etc. while in college. Have some sort of immediately-viewable "portfolio" of your work available for employers to see. Be prepared to accept a in-your-eyes-lesser-position. Everybody in this country is overqualified - get over it.

[Sock Puppet]

58. Get over it?

Wow. If someone hasn't already peed in your Cheerios, please allow me to right that egregious error.

[Seashell Eyes]

66. and I'll be joining Sock Puppet.

[DS1]

73. I'm in

just don't cross the streams!

[RogueTrooper]

57. What about your resume?

A couple of years ago my brother, just after graduating, was having no luck getting a graduate job. The problem was his resume - it was badly designed and contained the wrong information. When a potential employer first sees the pile of resumes the first thing they look to discard the ones they thing are unsuitable. The first thing your resume had to do is keep you in contention.

[Nikia]

74. With your resume

Be sure to include the specific lab equipment and techniques that you had experience with in your lab classes. This is vital if you want a science job without having employment experience in science.

[Joe Fields]

60. My son had absolutely no problem landing a good job with city hall,

in the I.T. dept., coming right out of high school, with his five computer certifications. It's called "networking."

[kath]

62. Have you applied through the personnel dept at the Univ (if you are in SLC)?

I got a job straight of school (BA Biology) working as a Lab Tech (official title Research Technologist, I think) at Northwestern. (this was nearly 30 years ago) My husband runs a lab at a private research foundation, and I think he also hires techs right out of school.

University labs have a huge need for lab techs, I should think.
Granted, an academic position probably won't pay as much as something in the private sector, but it would be a start...

[electron_blue]

64. You also need connections.

I hear you on the catch-22. My recommendation is to spin what job experience that you do have (did you say you worked at sbux?) into something that looks like what they want, and meet as many higher up people that you can in the industries you want. Tell them you are looking for a job in their field and ask do they know of any openings. This is not an instant fix, it will take time to make these connections, and you may have to work at sbux awhile longer, but a year from now you should be in a much better p osition due to making so many connections. Good luck!

[DontBlameMe]

65. If you're willing to relocate...

you might try looking in Michigan. Granholm has earmarked $2 billion for job development and I know bio-tech and the like is a pretty big priority.

Just a thought.

[triguy46]

69. Internships are the way to go. A paid tryout.

[AllegroRondo]

81. paid internships?

:rofl:

companies expect you to work for FREE for an internship.

[Orsino]

70. Sounds as though they're not clear on the meaning of "entry-level." n/t

[WhollyHeretic]

82. I work in IT and I see this all the time. I saw a job listed the other day

that really is an entry level position. They required 5 years experience and several certifications. They were paying less than the job I got while I was still finishing school. I don't know what kind of employee they think they'll get with 5 years experience that is willing to take that kind of money. They'll either get someone totally incompetent or someone who is between jobs and will stay there for a month till they find a better job.

[Left Is Write]

83. They shouldn't be calling these jobs "entry level" if they require experience.

It's an oxymoron!