Ok, Baseball fans...Answer me this:

[bicentennial_baby]

Why is it that the first 2 fouls are considered to be strikes, but after that, they are just fouls? Please, I am befuddled by this...

[KitchenWitch]

1. No clue!

And WTF IS a catcher's balk?

[bicentennial_baby]

3. I'm lost...

I just asked Sniffa about the rationale behind the foul thing, and he had no answer...So, I came here. It makes no sense to me, as of right now. :)

[SeattleGirl]

4. A catcher's balk?????

I've never heard of such a thing.

[KitchenWitch]

7. Last year at one of my son's ballgames

The umpire called a catcher's balk. Same consequence as a pitcher's balk, but man, you should have seen the other team's 'manager' come out of the dugout screamin' to high heaven about THAT call.

It is in the rules. But hell if anyone can tell you what it actually is.

[SeattleGirl]

12. I was looking in my baseball rules book (not THE official book, but

another one I have) and couldn't find anything about a catcher's balk.

[KitchenWitch]

15. Here is a link to a definition from the MLB website

It is a Q&A - with the catcher's balk being about halfway down the page (78 year old catcher).

[SeattleGirl]

20. Sweets, you forgot to include the link.

:hi:

[KitchenWitch]

35. D'oh!

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/feature.jsp?feature=mcclellandqa

[SeattleGirl]

44. Thanks, Kitchey!

That does make sense.

[Oeditpus Rex]

47. Oooooh! This one pisses me off!

I am a female and would like to be a professional umpire. I have a good eye, but I feel because I am a woman there will be opposition to my entry. What should I do? Has there ever been a female umpire?
-- Beth

McClelland: Actually I think there have been five. One made it all the way to Triple-A and got some Major League tryouts during Spring Training but just wasn't good enough to make that next step to the Major Leagues, just like a lot of the guys weren't. There is a young lady now working in the Florida State League in A-ball working her way up. I believe this is her third year in the minor leagues. Obviously her intent is to get to the big leagues, like every minor league umpire is.

The thing to do is go to umpire school, try your best, finish in the top ten percent and get put in the minor leagues. It's a long road to haul – I wouldn't want to wish it on a female, because not only do they have the complaints or problems you go through as an umpire, but then they have to deal with working in a male-dominated sport. But it can be done. There's no rule against it.


(My emphasis.)

BullSHIT! Pam Postema WAS good enough. Her ratings were consistently in the upper third of Triple-A umpires. It was nothing more than the good ol' boy league that kept her out of the majors.

:grr:

[SeattleGirl]

49. Yup!

MLB is still a good ol' boys club when it comes to umpiring.

[Rosemary2205]

2. That's like asking why

poker is with 5 cards. It just is. Someone in the past thunk up the rules and waaalaaa. I do believe the rules of baseball have slightly adjusted over the years so who knows - someday it might be 3 fouls yer out. :)

[bicentennial_baby]

6. Ok, so I was right, it makes no g-damn sense!

Ha! I think it's silly, personally. If the first 2 count, the 3rd should as well. :shrug:

[SeattleGirl]

9. But I think it's more fun this way. I love it when one of the players

on my team fouls off pitch after pitch after pitch.

The only time a third foul ball counts is when the batter is trying to bunt the ball. If he fouls off three balls while trying to bunt, he's out.

And I don't know why that is, either. :shrug:

[SeattleGirl]

5. Paging Oedi!!! Paging Oedi!!!

I think if anyone would know, it would be him.

[trackfan]

8. I would say it's an issue of weighting.

A third strike, being also an out, carries MUCH more weight than a first or second strike. Therefore a foul ball, while worthy of the lesser penalty of a first or second strike, is not so of a third strike, which would carry the additional penalty of also being an out.

[bicentennial_baby]

11. That's essentially what Sniffa said...

Still, doesn't make much sense to me...No wonder I'm a Football fan instead :P

[KitchenWitch]

13. makes sense.

If the third foul ball was strike three, then the game's bias would be weighted heavily toward the pitcher.

[begin_within]

10. Because you can't strike out on foul balls. No reason for it, it's just policy.

Personally, I still don't understand what a "passed ball" is, it's a rarely seen play, and I guess I'll never know.

[bicentennial_baby]

14. But doesn't there have to be a reason, at least originally?

:shrug:

[begin_within]

16. To make the game longer and sell more beer and Cracker Jacks.

I don't know. Maybe as someone said, it's too harsh of a penalty. They want to penalize you a little for it, but they don't want to put a person out based on just a foul ball. I wonder if they have a limit on number of foul balls for one batter is - theoretically it could go on forever. I also wonder what the record is for most number of foul balls in one at-bat.

[EFerrari]

17. I looked it up and almost understand it. A passed ball

is the same as a wild pitch except the catcher gets the error not the pitcher -- at the ref's discretion.

[begin_within]

18. What would make the catcher get the error?

If the pitch was good, but the catcher fumbled it? What's the difference between that and just a plain old error? I guess it would help to see video examples of plays that were called as a passed ball.

[SeattleGirl]

21. See my post just below yours.

[EFerrari]

22. Oh no! Now I don't know what a plain old error is.

lol

[Oeditpus Rex]

23. An error can't be charged on a pitched ball

because technically the ball isn't in play.

[SeattleGirl]

25. So do they charge the catcher with a passed ball, or a pitcher with

a whatever, but not charge an error?

[Oeditpus Rex]

29. Passed balls and wild pitches aren't errors

They're passed balls and wild pitches.

The basic scoring goes, if a ball is in the dirt or so far inside/outside/high it makes the catcher leave his normal stance, it's a wild pitch. Otherwise, it's a passed ball.

[SeattleGirl]

32. Thanks, Oedi.

You're my fav baseball expert! I know a lot about the game, but there's always more to learn. :hi:

[Oeditpus Rex]

43. I'm hardly an expert

Ask me to explain the infield fly rule. I know when it applies, but I can't articulate it. :shrug:

I know there's such a thing as a catcher's balk, but I dunno what it entails and I've never seen one. (It's not the same as catcher's interference, though.)

Also, there are nine ways a batter can reach first base, but I can never remember all of 'em. :crazy:

[KitchenWitch]

45. Here are four of them

1. Hit
2. Error
3. Fielder's Choice
4. Dropped third strike

[Oeditpus Rex]

50. 5. Base on balls

6. Hit by pitch
7.









Crap. I swear I used to know seven of 'em. x(

[SeattleGirl]

51. Look at my post, Oedi. #48

I named 7 of them (but they may not all be correct).

[SeattleGirl]

48. Look at Kitchey's post #35.

Link to a website that answers baseball questions.

Nine ways, huh? How many can I name?

1. A hit.
2. A walk.
3. A balk (if bases are loaded?).
4. A dropped ball on strike 3.
5. Hit by a pitch.
6. A bunt (Ichiro is pretty good at bunting himself on board).
7. A home run(?). I'm assuming that that would be considered different than a hit, where the batter would, at the most, take 3 bases.

That's all I can think of right now, and I'm not even sure if they are all correct.

[Oeditpus Rex]

52. Nuh-uh

The batter never gets a base on a balk, no matter how many are on base.

A hit is a hit is a hit, whether it goes 20 feet or 600. Homers and bunts are the same as singles in this regard.

[SeattleGirl]

55. Okay, thanks.

So if the bases were loaded when the pitcher did a balk, he would essentially "balk" in a run?

And on the second one, I kind of thought that, but wasn't sure.

[Oeditpus Rex]

57. Yeah, runs have been balked in before

Wonder if there's ever been a walk-off balk. :D

[SeattleGirl]

58. Yep, there has.

I can't remember exactly when, but a few years ago, the Mariners won a game when the opposing pitcher balked with the bases loaded. :rofl:

[KitchenWitch]

61. I love it!

[Oeditpus Rex]

64. How embarrassing

Thing is, though, balks are kind of subjective. The rules are clear, but some umps call 'em and others don't. :shrug:

Dave Pallone said he never called one because he could never spot one.

[SeattleGirl]

68. In the baseball book I have ("The Baseball Fan's Companion" by

Nick Bakalar, he has a whole section on balks, and does indicate they are somewhat subjective. I usually have to see the replay to tell if it was a balk or not.

[Oeditpus Rex]

79. I'd guess most fans see maybe one of 10 balks

If that many.

I think I've seen only two or three as they happened. The majority are sooooo subtle — little bitty movements of the hip, leg, elbow or head.

Half the time, I dunno why they bother calling 'em. I'd guess it's sometimes because of a vendetta between the ump and the pitcher.

[SeattleGirl]

85. Could be.

I've seen a couple of blatant balks that the ump didn't call, blast them!

[KitchenWitch]

60. I don't know, but there is a blog

http://www.walkoffbalk.com/blog/

[SeattleGirl]

62. Jeebus, there are blogs about EVERYTHING, aren't there?

:crazy:

[KitchenWitch]

66. Yes - and we have successfully hijacked this thread!

All this talk of walk-off balks and catcher's balks is making me wish I could go to more games.

[Oeditpus Rex]

69. Ah, you just wanna see

a walk-off catcher's balk. :D

[SeattleGirl]

71. ROFL!!!!

Good one, Oedi! :rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

74. I got a better one

There used to be a pitcher named Bob Walk. I think he was with Pittsburgh, but I'm not sure. Anyway, since the term "walk-off" came into existence, I've wondered if there was ever a walk-off Walk walk. :D

[SeattleGirl]

75. Heheh. Or a walk-off Walk balk.

:rofl:

[KitchenWitch]

81. That would be notable!

As well as seeing Matt LeCroy hit for the cycle!

:rofl:

[SeattleGirl]

70. Hijack!!!!!

I love going to baseball games. Only been to two this year so far, opening day (which I ALWAYS go to), and one on June 1st.

I love Safeco Field. After going to games in the Kingdome, going to my first game at Safeco was like going from Kansas to Oz!

[KitchenWitch]

53. I would think a bunt-single and a home-run would be classified as hits

:shrug:

[SeattleGirl]

56. Apparently they are.

I am definitely NOT a baseball expert, much as I do know about it.

[EFerrari]

33. I get it now. They're not errors but they are booboos.

[SeattleGirl]

36. Hehe!

I can just hear the guys who call the games: "Uh oh, catcher couldn't hang on to the ball. Booboo on the catcher!" :rofl:

[EFerrari]

39. "Major League" is one of my favorite movies of all times

with that great announcer, "a juvenile delinquent in the off season --"

lol

[Oeditpus Rex]

59. Bob Uecker?

You should hear him calling a real game. (He does Brewers games.) He's AWful.

[EFerrari]

63. I don't know if it was him or if the character was a take off on him

but it was hilarious. "Juusssssssst a LITTLE outside."

[SeattleGirl]

65. It was him.

[Oeditpus Rex]

67. Yeah, it was him

Uecker's much better at making fun of himself than he is at being himself.

[EFerrari]

80. That's pretty much the definition of a comedian, isn't it?

[Oeditpus Rex]

83. Yeah, but when he's calling a real game

he's not being a comedian.

[EFerrari]

88. That would drive me crazy.

[Oeditpus Rex]

90. Did me, too

Dodgers were at Milwaukee in April, and on XM radio you get the home team's broadcast. Maybe it was because Uecker was by himself; most clubs have two guys in the radio booth for most games, but I could hardly stand him.

If he'd been half as funny as he was in "Major League," it would've been a lot different, but he played it absolutely straight, i.e. boring.

Only one worse I've found (besides the freaking morans with Faux Sprots) is Al Leitner in San Diego. Bozo always sounds like he's trying to sell used cars.

[begin_within]

26. Oh, OK. Thanks.

[EFerrari]

27. Now you're just messing with us.

[Oeditpus Rex]

30. Heh... nope

Them's just the roolz. :D

[EFerrari]

31. I thought the ball was in play unless it was in a glove.

I better forget about coaching and stick to cutting up oranges.

[SeattleGirl]

34. Here's another titbit for you.....

in baseball, it's managing, not coaching. :hi: :7

[EFerrari]

37. Oh no! And that nice man let me call him "coach"

the whole time my kid ball. lol!

[SeattleGirl]

38. Well, I don't think it really matters.

The managers ARE coaching the game.

What I've always found interesting is that baseball managers wear baseball uniforms during the games, but football coaches and basketball coaches wear suits. Wonder how that came about.

[EFerrari]

40. Maybe because there's no spitting in football or basketball?

:shrug:

[SeattleGirl]

42. Oh, I think there is some, but baseball players and managers

definitely have the corner on that! (That's one part of the game I hate -- watching a ton of guys spitting all over the place. x(

[Oeditpus Rex]

72. Originally, managers were also players

That was still fairly common through the '40s. From the '50s on, I don't think there've been more than a couple.

Besides — a manager can put himself in the lineup. Not on a moment's notice, but through the proper channels, it's legal.

[SeattleGirl]

73. Whoa! Another interesting thing about the game.

I didn't know that.

[Oeditpus Rex]

76. Player-managers are still allowed

They'd just have to go through the same channels as to activate a player off the DL or call one up. You can't have more than 25 guys on a ball club eligible to play.

[SeattleGirl]

77. Now I have a picture in my head of Tommy Lasorda trying to beat

the ball out to first base when he was still managing your Dodgers! :rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

82. Ha!

I can't even see Tommy trying to beat out a hit when he was playing. :rofl:

He was a pitcher, though — if you can believe that.

[SeattleGirl]

86. Have you seen the footage of him going ass over teakettle at the

2001 All Star game here in Seattle? They still play that on the bloopers tape during ballgames. Absolutely cracks me up every time!

[Oeditpus Rex]

89. Mmmmm...

You'd think I must have, but I can't remember it. :shrug:

I do know he said the fastest he ever ran in his life was when those two dudes tried to set a flag on fire in the outfield in 197... 8, I think.

[KitchenWitch]

84. I have a picture in my mind of Bobby Cox trying to play!

:spray:

[Oeditpus Rex]

93. He'd get thrown out stealing

by an ump.

:D

[KitchenWitch]

94. and then he would get unceremoniously tossed from the game.

[Oeditpus Rex]

95. Uh, Kitchy...

That's what I meant. :P

[KitchenWitch]

96. LOL

I figured, but then was not sure.

I would have said Lou Piniella, but he is in fairly good shape for a man his age, and could still likely run faster than I can.

[Oeditpus Rex]

97. Maybe

But he wouldn't be as much fun to watch. :evilgrin:

[Oeditpus Rex]

41. Depends on what you mean by 'in play'

Unless time is out, runners can advance, at their own risk, at any time. Otherwise, no offensive play can occur until the pitcher releases the ball, either to home plate or to a base, such as in a pick-off attempt. That isn't a rule per se, it's just the way the game is structured.

The exception is a hidden-ball trick or other such deception play. But even that isn't a real exception, as it's really just a continuation of the pitcher's throw to the base.

[SeattleGirl]

19. Thanks, sfexpat. I was just going to respond to this.

I think if the catcher had a reasonable chance of catching the ball but doesn't, that's when it's called a passed ball, and the catcher gets the error.

[EFerrari]

24. You know, it's pretty bad when you forget things

you never knew in the first place.

:hi:

[SeattleGirl]

28. LOL!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that! :hi:

[KitchenWitch]

46. Oh, and I want to know why a batter cannot steal first base!

:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

54. That was a 'Jeopardy' question years ago

"The one base a batter cannot steal."

Nobody got it. :rofl:

[begin_within]

78. Another way of looking at it...

...maybe they wanted to differentiate between a foul ball and an actual strike, in terms of how severe the "infraction" is. They wanted to penalize the batter more for swinging and missing the ball or not even swinging at a strike. And that was the situation they chose to differentiate it. Say you're at bat, and you have 2 strikes. If the next pitch is thrown into the strike zone, one of four things will happen:
1. You stand there and watch it go by without swinging - umpire calls you out.
2. You take a swing at it but miss it completely - umpire calls you out.
3. You take a swing at it but hit it into foul territory - nothing changes, you get another pitch.
4. You take a swing at it and hit it into fair territory - ball goes into play and you run for first base.
They think #1 and #2 are worse "infractions" than #3, so the penalty for #3 is less, and that's how they differentiate the severeness of the infraction - by setting the rules so that you can't get out just on a foul ball. You can get out by missing the ball or not even taking a swing. However, the exception is that if the foul is caught by a player on the opposing team, even in foul territory, you're out.
Of couse I'm just guessing at all this.

[Oeditpus Rex]

87. I have an even simpler theory

Skilled hitters — that is, most in the major leagues — can foul off a pitch intentionally, and they often do, especially with two strikes. Guy gets a pitch he can't drive, but it's in the strike zone, so he fouls it off to stay at bat.

This is a skill that goes back to baseball's earliest days. In fact, there was once something called a "fair foul" — a foul ball caught on the first bounce was an out. (That was in the days when it was also four strikes and nine balls, pitchers threw underhanded and batters could call for a "high ball," "low ball or "fair ball," i.e. waist-high.) So I'm guessing the idea behind the two-strike foul is to not penalize hitters simply for keeping themselves alive.

[begin_within]

91. Great stuff... now I know who to ask about these things.

[Oeditpus Rex]

92. Well, I'm just guessing on that

Truth is, you had the best answer above: It just is.

Hell, why is it four downs to make a first down? Why is it 22 feet for a 3-pointer? Why is it farther to Chicago than by bus? :shrug: