Don't mean to be a downer, but I would like your answers to this question

[Joe Fields]

Do you believe in fate, or do you believe in self-determination? Or, do you think that a little bit of both enter your life?

I am a half-century old, and still wrestle with this issue. I have had things happen in my life that I felt sure were pre-determined, and no set of circumstances could have kept it from happening.

But, on the other hand, I believe that, at least to a large extent we are masters of our own destiny, and that the future really hasn't been written.

But then, I also believe that we were all put here on this earth for a reason, a purpose, and that we all have a certain role to play, no matter how large or small.

And sometimes I wonder, if, maybe we are just being led to think that we have the freedom to make our own decisions, and in reality, every action we take, no matter even if we change our minds and do something else, was really meant to happen in such a sequence, so as to set of a chain of events that was pre-ordained anyway.

I don't know. But I do know this. Something happened not long ago that made me feel like it was meant to happen, but upon analysis, seems impossible to reconcile.

[no name no slogan]

1. A little of both

I think that things happen for a reason, but that we have free will to act upon certain things, which can lead to other things happening because of the original action.

When I was younger I had a stronger belief in fate, but as I've gotten older and more jaded it's faded.

[Joe Fields]

2. This is a hard one for me to reconcile, because...

I can't help but feel like it's a lot like being pregnant. A woman is either pregnant, or she isn't. No in-between. But again, if we have specific roles to play out, and those roles have been fulfilled, then maybe we do get a little bit of self determination, just to fill out the rest of our lives.

I don't really know...

[hfojvt]

3. certainly I do not have complete self-determination

I can apply for a job or ask a girl out, but the outcome is not in my power to control. It wasn't my vote or LTTEs or efforts that foisted pResident Evil on the world, but it wasn't fate either. It was the actions of some 100,000 morans in Tennessee and/or Florida, a M$M that declared war on Gore, the financial clout of his base, and, of course, one Ralph focking Nader, and probably other members of the vast rightwing conspiracy :tinfoil:

[Joe Fields]

4. but isn't it a haunting thought to suppose that maybe, just maybe

those events were supposed to come down that way, for the evil bush regime to take over, because it may take a regime such as his for something even more powerful to happen, which is yet unforseen?

Hard one to swallow, but who knows for sure?

[hfojvt]

9. I am not one who believes that in order to scale the heights

of the Empire State building, that it is necessary to drive through Hell's Kitchen first. I did not see anything positive come out of either WWI or the flu pandemic. If there's a master plan, it seems to be designed by a master sadist.

[Joe Fields]

14. no arguments here. I mean, if there is a master plan, then why

would you be allowed to meet your soul mate, only to have events keep you apart. Isn't that cruel and unusual?

[Deep13]

5. No and no.

There is no fate. Nothing has been predetermined.

What happens is the result of many factors in the world. One of those factors is the effort for self determination. Still, even self determination is mostly illusory since we are the products of our environment. To a large degree we have no control over what we want, what we value or what we are capable of doing.

[wildhorses]

6. is this another way of phrasing the old nature/nurture question?

:dunce:

[Joe Fields]

7. this goes way beyond environment...

:dilemma:

[LaraMN]

8. Chance and self-determination.

I think the significance people place on things that happen sometimes stems from a need for there to be a higher purpose or meaning in the events that occur in their lives, but I don't really share this need.

Things happen to us, sometimes beyond our control, but it's often how we respond to these occurences that makes the difference between falling into darkness and lifting ourself to a better place.

I believe we choose our lives actively and responsively, but I recognize that some events interfere with our ability to create the personal world we seek- whether for better or worse- largely by coincidence.

[Joe Fields]

10. but, okay. let's use an example, for the sake of argument..

suppose someone is born severely mentally handicapped, and will require constant care from cradle to grave. They cannot think for themselves, and so have no self-determination. Is their role in life to have been born so handicapped, for some unknown reason?

[oregonjen]

12. I think "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" for example

We have lessons to learn on earth and then move on. Perhaps the handicapped child's soul is capable of learning? Perhaps the child is acting like a guide for the parent to help the soul's journey onward?

[Joe Fields]

13. perhaps. he serves a function, whether as a conduit for some other

person to fulfill their role, be it what may.

Or, he is the object of the profound experience that someone may encounter that, in turn alters that particular person's life.

[LaraMN]

15. It's our duty as human beings to make determinations in their best interest

for them. (my belief, anyway)

I don't believe there is a purpose or prescribed "role" in their disability beyond that assigned by those who are involved with them, if in fact they are truly non-cognizant.

Are they of value as human beings? Absolutely. They have boundless potential as a catalyst for others' positive sentiments. Are they here for some "reason"? I doubt it. They're part of the diversity of nature.

[Connonym]

19. That's pretty much how I see it

I don't believe there's a master plan to the universe. I think we can choose what path we aim for in life and our actions can guide our futures but I think that it's an illusion to say that we control our destinies. Some of it is in the choices we make but the greater part is, I believe, a matter of random luck.

[oregonjen]

11. I believe fate is a huge part of our lives

It's how we interpret what is in front of us, that is self-determination. On a very selfish personal note, if I hadn't have made a huge life decision, I would never have met my husband. My husband would have never been in the states had he not made a decision to work internationally.
What brought us together was fate, but staying together was self-determination.

[Orsino]

16. I'm more "not in our stars" than "more things in heaven and earth."

The world's such a marvelous, complex system that it sometimes looks as though Fate is running it.

[billyskank]

17. I believe in karma

Which is to say, that I am enjoying and/or suffering the fruits of actions I have already performed. In that respect, I am indeed the master of my destiny, since I am the sum of my previous choices, not all of which have been wise. But the reactions I am experiencing right now are not all for actions performed recently: I believe that some reactions can take quite a long time to fructify, which is why I do not always appear to be getting what I deserve.

[Inchworm]

18. Self-determination thinker

As far as my "self," I am the result of how the consequences of my decisions played out in the world. Also, how I react to things I have no control over like how other peoples consequences of their decisions played out in the world.

anywho.. deeep (made sense to me lol)

:)