If Bush does win this year. Who is ready and able to leave the US

[HEyHEY]

I see lots of folks talking about it, but who is actually willing and can do it. DO you have the proper documents to emigrate anywhere? Can you get them? Where would you go?

[solinvictus]

1. New Zealand

[girl gone mad]

9. have you been admitted?

I've got just enough points and money saved, but I'll warn you - it's a tough road.

[MrSlayer]

2. I'm seriously considering Amsterdam.

Having a skilled trade allows me to work anywhere in the world. I wouldn't want to give up my citizenship though.

[mhr]

3. The BFEE Have Bankrupted This Duer, Hence Stuck In Place

eom

[GOPisEvil]

4. I think I can.

I can claim dual citizenship (Greece), and relocate to the EU, I think.

I don't want to, and I probably won't, but I think I can, if I want. :silly:

[Disandra]

5. I would love to...

...but can not afford it. Because of the economy, I was laid off. Now, I work for minimum wage and am just squeaking by.

IF I had the money, I have a valid passport...so, just to piss off Freepers, I'd probably move to France. ;-)

[7th_Sephiroth]

6. i got a few thousand stashed away

and people i know who can hide me in canada

[Ready4Change]

31. Why do you think freepers'd be pissed at you moving to France?

They'd love it. One less opposition vote.

STAYING is what'll piss em off. Winning back congress and/or the senate'll piss em off. Kicking the Bush administration out of office'll piss em off. Shaking the Neocons control of our nation'll piss em off. Restoring the middle class, growing the economy by strengthening the workers rather than coddling the rich business owners, giving the common people hope and security, rebuilding a functional foreign policy, eliminating the deficit, elminating the USA's dependance on foriegn oil, and cleaning up the environment will ALL piss off the freepers.

Leaving? The freepers will throw a party. Can't have that.

C'mon people, think a little.

[DemOutWest]

7. I will

seriously look at Canada (mother is Canadian), a beach in Baja Mexico or New Zealnd. I am serious. Will have to check on the emigration papers.

I love this country and always will. $ more years of Bush would send me into a serious depression and I will need to search for a place where I can feel optimistic about my neighbors, fellow counrtypeople and the future of the world.

Peace Out

[Ready4Change]

32. Love?

If you're not willing to defend it, go ahead and leave. But don't honor yourself by saying you "love America." You might be wistfull about it. You might have a fond memory or two.

But if you love it, you can't leave it.

At least that's how I see things.

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. I have relatives in Luxembourg with government positions.

They could -- and would -- help me, and I do have a valid passport. In the past, we have discussed how they could ease my way into emigrating if I wanted. Not that I am planning anything.

[DS1]

10. As soon as I get my degree, I can move anywhere in the EU

:dunce:

[GOPisEvil]

16. I might join ya, brother.

I'd have to check things out with a good immigration lawyer, but I think I can claim dual citizenship, and if I don't go back to Greece, I don't have to serve in their army either. :dunce:

[notadmblnd]

11. We're thiry minutes from the border

but I'm a couple hundredthousand short of being able to immigrate to Canada.But my neighbor is single and a citizen. If worse comes to worst, he just might be my new husband.

[Newsjock]

12. Resume already in Calgary

But my chances are pretty darn low, thanks to the immigration rules. I saw a job open up today in Thunder Bay, though, and perhaps my chances would be better there. But, goodness, it's Thunder Bay. Yes, I've been there once.

[moz4prez]

13. rats are the first to leave a sinking ship

I was born here, I was raised here, and damn it, I'll die here

Seriously, what if our founding fathers got so fed up with the British they just packed their bags and moved to France. That would be terrible.

[Printer70]

15. cute

eom

[DUreader]

17. I'm good to go, EU citizen now. Leaving before Election

voting absentee, see if its worth coming back

[absyntheNsugar]

19. WOO HOO!!!!!

I feel like waxing Churchill..."We will fight them on the beaches..."

I plan on staying here until it becomes outright dangerous to live here. Not just rednecks in trucks shooting an occasional lefty dangerous, but jackboots in the streets dangerous.

And I will do whatever it takes to prevent that day from coming. This is why, I have always supported the 2nd ammendment.

[IADEMO2004]

20. 13 posts before a fighter appears!

I intend to stay and fight

[Ready4Change]

33. I'm with ya.

Good to see someone here with a spine.

[Guaranteed]

41. Fight for what?

Europe and Canada are great places to live. Hell, head farther west- Japan, China. Australia. Explore.

Man, the world's a big place. There's no need to fight over this stupid stuff.

If someone was invading the country and trying to take it over, I'd fight. But when over half of the people surrounding me are idiotic Republiclowns, it seems to me that the American culture and I just have some irreconciable differences. I was so sad last year, before the war, because I really believed in the righteousness of this country. I really believed that most Americans, like me, took to heart the idea of "liberty and justice for all." Invading a country, and occupying it, unprovoked just seemed so blatantly unjust, and unAmerican, to me. I didn't think that the American public would ever allow Bush to START a full-blown war.

But they did. And when I came to terms with the fact that they would, my feelings changed totally.

Like I said, I'd defend the US if we were attacked or invaded. But, as far as not letting the country "go down the drain" or something, I think it's just too late. The people have spoken, and they're idiots.

The only real problem I'd have with moving to another country is leaving my family behind. But I don't want to stick around to see what the idiocy of another four years of George W. Bush is going to bring to this place. We can be pretty sure whatever happens isn't going to be good. :shrug:

[Karenina]

59. BullGooseLoony

What you said! :toast:

[Zuni]

53. Amen

If Bush wins in 2004, then we will need everyone in 2006, 2008

[Guaranteed]

40. Suit yourself.

But you know there are plenty of other democracies...legitimate ones...that would love to have you. Probably.

[Interrobang]

46. Well, some of my relatives had their bags packed for them...

...and moved (forcibly) from the US to Canada. That would have been in about 1776, or so. We call them "United Empire Loyalists" up here. One of my friends continually hopes that the US gov't will pay reparations for property seized from UELs during and after the Revolution, mostly because her ancestors owned large portions of what's now Pennsylvania. :)

The way I see it, if you leave and wait out the troubles, it's not that you love your country any less, it's just that you want it to be *your country* again before you live there once more. You could consider yourselves to be "American Loyalists," instead of neoconservatives.

Incidentally, I'll help anyone who wants to come to Canada. By the time any of you really feel like you need to leave, I should be an old hand at it.

[45th Med]

14. Moving to Hawaii!

It's about as far away as I can get without renouncing my citizenship.

[deminflorida]

18. Back to Italy, or Germany hopefully...

If there's any way...I'm going back...I lived there ten years, moved my wife here, so she could get her citizenship four years ago...

but hell, I've had enough. This Alabama boy is going back to Europe.

[liberalhistorian]

21. CANADA!

CANADA, CANADA, CANADA! I've been fighting since Raygun was first elected when I was in high school, and I'm TIRED and I've had enough. If the people are too fucking stupid to finally wake the hell up and see what's really happening and that Smirk and the Bushistas are the worst danger this country has ever faced, and they actually vote him in this time, fuck them and THE HELL WITH IT!

I've already begun making plans, and passed the online Skilled Workers Immigration Test by several points (I have a college degree, work experience, am under 54, etc.) Now if I could just find a nice Canadian husband, I'd be all set! Any takers? I'll even throw in that I'm an excellent cook and baker, I don't nag or lecture, and I rarely get headaches!

[Ready4Change]

22. Not me.

It's my country, and it's not lost yet.

There's 150 million people with their eyes open and a growing awareness of what's wrong. There's another 150 million who need to wake up. HOW IS LEAVING GOING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

If you love what this country is supposed to be, then stay and fix it. If not, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Disandra]

Very optimistic....

but I seriously doubt that the American people will "wake up" anytime soon. After all, plastic and tape were flying off the shelves when the government suggested it.

I love this country for what it is supposed to be, but I don't see how to "fix it" given that most people are willing to give their freedom away for some "security." The high ratings FOX news has, "letters to the editor" in numerous newspapers, no one seeing anything wrong with the "First Amendment Zones" that this administration has enacted, the Patriot Acts, many conversations in open forums on-line, the widening gap of the rich and poor and the slow destruction of the middle class, the disregard for people of color, women, and hostility directed at gay, lesbian and bisexuals, and everyday conversations overheard and/or participated in have convinced me of this.

I hope I am wrong. I hope that Dubya loses the coming election and this country can start to recover from his fascist regime. I hope that some of those Baby Boomers who now have power (I'm a member of Generation X, and thus far outnumbered) remember their roots (a la the 1960s and 1970s).

/rant mode off

[Ready4Change]

27. And with all those things wrong, how will leaving help?

What problem does leaving solve?

Do think the neocons will say "Oh no! Some Democrat/Greens are leaving! We must change our evil ways and encourage them to return"?

Get real. People like you talking of leaving is their wildest dreams come true.

Stay. Media-washed Americans need you to wake them up. Your districts, states and candidates need your votes. This board needs you to stop with this pointless defeatist talk and start with some constructive rational thinking.

[liberalhistorian]

45. I"ve been fighting "media-washed Americans"

since Raygun's first election back when I was in high school, and I'm TIRED! I'm TIRED of trying to get stupid Americans, which by now are the majority, frankly, to see what's really happening and how Shrub and the Bushistas are the greatest danger we've ever faced as a nation, to wake them up to what he's really doing, but NO, even after everything these past few years his poll ratings remain un-fucking-believably high, and he's still able to play the 9/11 card to get out of anything, and I'm SICK OF IT!

I have a son to think of, and I just can't take it anymore. The middle class is disappearing, no one has any money, the job market is permanently fucked, (health care is unbelievably high and access getting harder and harder, with hospitals now ranking as the most aggressive collectors, and actually THROWING PEOPLE IN JAIL who can't pay their medical bills) and no one seems to give a shit, the environment is being rapidly trashed and ruined to the point of no return, our basic rights are being shredded and destroyed right before our eyes and no one sees anything wrong with it because it's for "national security", etc., etc., etc., etc., I could go on all day.

I've fought this shit and stupid Americans who won't see it my whole adult life and I'm fucking SICK OF IT! If Americans want to be dumb enough to put up with this shit and vote for their destruction and the destruction of their country, and then turn around and blame LIBERALS for everything going wrong, then FUCK THEM!!!!!!

[Zuni]

55. I have never seen or heard of any of that

a girl i am seeing works in a hospital and she says the hospital eats the cost when someone poor comes in to the emergency room and cannot pay

[Disandra]

58. Again very optimistic...

...but I don't think the vast majority of Americans really want to "think" or pay attention. They just want their SUV's and war.

My whole point is that I don't see this country changing at all, not matter what I do. I've protested (and have been told that I'm an "anti-American" and to go to hell), I've written to my "representatives" (numerous occassions) and have gotten no response or a standard form letter, I donate money to various causes and have offered to volunteer as well, and the only response I get is to "send more money," and on and on and on. I voted for who I thought was the best choice in the last election, only to be told by "liberals" that I'm the reason why Dubya is in office.

This board needs you to stop with this pointless defeatist talk and start with some constructive rational thinking.

Well, I was trying to be rational by taking off the rose-colored glasses, taking a hard look at what was going on in this country, and offering my honest opinion. But I'll guess I'll just go back to lurking so that you don't have to read my "pointless defeatist talk" and you can get on with your "constructive rational thinking" because obviously, my opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

[Guaranteed]

42. Man, if Bush gets re-elected, it's all over.

It'll be all frickin' done. Just get the hell out.

I'm not leaving unless he does. But, if he does...

[Zuni]

56. and just surrender?

What if Lincoln surrendered after Chancellorsville or fredricksburg? What if Churchill surrendered in 1940?

[joeybee12]

23. Prague, and yes I have the documents and/or know where to go.....

...if you consider how much he's ruined this great country already, a second term might just destory it completely.

And when fascism comes to America, we will call it democracy.

[JaySherman]

24. I'm already out, thought not for that reason.

It's purely pragmatic for me. The teaching job I have in Japan pays better than anything I could find in the States. There are plenty of teaching jobs here, too. I can stay as long as I want and leave when I choose not to renew my contract. What happens in 2004 will affect my future decisions though. No sense in leaving the cushy job I have here to go back to temping for $10.00/hour, which with the way the economy is going, and all the outsourcing, is what I'd probably be looking at. In a sense, I guess I've 'outsourced' myself. There's definitely something wrong when it has to be that way.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. I'm keeping the Japan option open

since I have lots of personal and professional contacts.

The time may come when I simply don't want to be associated with this country anymore. I'm hoping that it doesn't come to that.

[Lostmessage]

25. I will be moving to Australia Mate

B-)

[SheilaT]

26. I'm working on getting

Irish citizenship, but I'll be lucky if I can get it before the election. I would very much like to be out of the country on election day, but with a kid still in high school I feel trapped.

[scarlet_owl]

28. I would never leave!

This is my country and I'm going to stay and fight the good fight for as long as it takes.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. I'm gonna marry you and become a naturalized Canadien

[hellhathnofury]

30. I'm ready but not able. I have to stick out 4 years of college.

There's always study abroad.

I was thinking Switzerland.

[Guaranteed]

43. Why would you leave if you had the ability to?

I've heard other people say the same kind of thing as you....can't leave their job, school, etc...I'm not sure that I understand that. That seems to imply that you're leaving simply because you're in a political minority, or, out of protest.

[HuckleB]

34. I can but I won't.

I'm an RN, and I could go just about anywhere, with the nursing shortage. My wife is also in demand in Britain and more and more European nations, as their universities begin to find it necessary to raise money just like their counterparts in the U.S. She has already turned down a number of lucrative offers, while I finish my masters degree.

This country needs us all. I don't see any good happening by us fleeing. We must stay and fight.

[Fleshdancer]

36. It depends....

If you're worried from the political perspective, you can still vote while living abroad. Aside from that, what's your worry? A war on the mainland? The odds of that are slim.

[HuckleB]

48. I'm not sure how your post follows mine?

I'm not worried about a war on the mainland? I'm just not leaving when the going gets tough. I can do far more to change things if I'm here.

[Fleshdancer]

35. first of all, I love the pic

My husband and I are discussing this very issue. We both agree that Bush winning in '04 is a dangerous concept, but our options right now are limited to St. Louis, MO and Paris, France. (due to job issues)

Right now, St. Louis seems less dangerous than Paris considering the neocons HATE France. Even before the war and animosity started, my husband and I thought about living in France, it seems so nice. What do you think?

Some days I think the only possible safe place is New Zealand or, I don't know, somewhere very neutral to everything going on right now.

[wingnut]

37. I'll believe it when I see it

I heard a lot of "I'm moving to Canada" talk when bush won the first time, and since then about 0% have followed through.

[Piperay]

38. Able to

and have the means but mentally I am not quite ready. I'm doing research on making a move but realistically probably not for at least 5 years but hopefully not more than 10 years.

[JCMach1]

39. I'm already there...

:)

Come join me in the Emirates... it's great here!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

44. Nope. Sorry. On my side of the family we have not found a blood

line that was not here prior to about 1830. That is a long line of gizzly relatives that I do not want to face in the afterlife to explain why I ran and hid.

On my wife's side, they came through Ellis Island 83 years ago. They came because they believed life in America had to be better than it was in Germany.

You know what? It was.

It is. Still.

So, for all my direct antecedents, and for all my descendants, I will stay. I will excerise my rights. I will obey all lawful commands.

I will watch. And wait. Until the time is right. Then....

[rustydog]

47. You don't leave the country you love just because you lost a battle!

Cowards run..Patriots stay and keep fighting.

[Loonman]

50. Better to fight on your feet than live on your knees, I'm stayin'

Always.

[ArkDem]

51. I've never lived in the US.

I live in Little Rock.

[Zuni]

52. I am not going anywhere

I am going to stay here and fight for my country in the 2006, 2008 elections.
I refuse to abandon my country to a bunch of corrupt oligarchs.
If Bush wins, we need every DUer here, fighting the good fight.

[Cat Atomic]

54. Apparently Bush is planning to send me to Mars. You, too.

That's what it's about, suckers. Pack your stuff, and get ready for TANG!

[Bridget Burke]

57. I'm at that awkward age....

Too old to start over & too young to retire.

So, here I'll stay.

[carolinayellowdog]

60. Not since finding true love

I could retire any time in the next 5 years (depending on how little I can live on) and would even have considered abandoning family and friends to do so abroad. (Costa Rica would be nice, or the Dominican Republic.) But then I fell in love and now I'll stay in NC come hell or high water.