If You're Lesbian and Have Never Been With A Man, Does That Make You A Virgin?

[Yavin4]

I say this because financial guru Suze Orman admits to being a lesbian and never having been with a man. Yet, the title of the article calls her a "virgin".

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003549559

I think that's sexist. Having sex with anyone automatically disqualifies you as a virgin. Just because its not hetero sex, that does not mean it's not sex.

Am I right here?

[KitchenWitch]

1. I believe you are correct.

But what do I know.

[youthere]

2. I think you are right.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. It is sexist to call a lesbian a virgin.

i had a friend who was bi. and had sex with women but she never had intercoursewith a man. though she had hooked up and had oral sex with them.

that was confusing in terms of virginity for a while.

[LostinVA]

4. Errr.... no

"Sexual intercourse" doesn't have to involve a man's penis.

*sigh*

And, I KNEW SHE WAS GAY!!!!!!

I told my Mom that about three years ago!!!

[Yavin4]

5. How Did You Know?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[LostinVA]

7. I just knew

Seriously, it cannot be explained.

Just likr I have great trolldar, too.

[idgiehkt]

14. I'm impressed

I have adored her for years, mainly because I grew up knowing nothing whatsoever about money or how to manage it and everthing I know about it I learned from watching her show on channel 34. But I never in a million years thought she was gay. Man, I feel kind of stupid right now. But happy, lol.

[Zuiderelle]

27. Trolldar, cool!

You might want to get that thing serviced though, I think it's a bit faulty. :D :hi:

[JackBeck]

29. Well, we know who ISN'T a lesbian...

[LostinVA]

67. Yavin4?

[JackBeck]

78. Not the one I was thinking of.

[LostinVA]

84. AH!!!

[JackBeck]

100. There ya' go.

[Zuiderelle]

92. Oh, I bet you mean me!

LOL! My girlfriend would be very upset to find that out. Or maybe I'm just being egotistical thinking you're talking about me. In that case, never mind :D

[JackBeck]

99. Sorry, not you.

[Zuiderelle]

108. Aw, rats.

:)

[Karenca]

102. I think they mean me.

I wrote more stupid statements here than anyone:blush:

[JackBeck]

104. Not you, either.

[LostinVA]

107. No! Not you at all

[Karenca]

112. Good --

'cause I've been pretty dumb today. :)

[idgiehkt]

116. It's me.

Shhhh. It's supposed to be a secret. As if I've ever claimed to be anything other than bi since I signed on here.

[JackBeck]

117. Nope. But this thread is getting interesting.

[idgiehkt]

119. Are you serious?

I'm sorry, Jack, honey.

:rofl:

I won't even try to explain it, just ask around.

:rofl:

[Fran Kubelik]

120. No kidding!!

:popcorn:

I think I might be able to give up my afternoon TV watching. :D

[idgiehkt]

122. I'm laughing so hard it hurts.

:rofl:

Goddammit, I wanted to be the one.

[Fran Kubelik]

126. I should volunteer too.

But no one here knows me, so I kind of doubt anyone would be speculating about my sexual orientation. :)

[idgiehkt]

129. oooooh you are one of those undeclared types

that is the best way to get them talking.

:rofl:

[JackBeck]

130. Nope. Not you.

But welcome to DU

:hi:

[Fran Kubelik]

131. Thank you.

I was kidding, of course. I do not expect anyone really cares one way or another about me. Except Starbucks Anarchist. He told me he likes my screen name. :)

[JackBeck]

133. Be careful with that one...

He's quite a charmer.

[Fran Kubelik]

135. That is entirely obvious.

:D

[JackBeck]

There's, like, 6 flamewars happening all at the same time.

[Zuiderelle]

125. So THAT's why they outlawed sex threads here.

Now I get it! :rofl:

[idgiehkt]

127. Is this a sex thread?

Duh, I guess it is. I guess "Suze Orman" is the code word. :shrug:

[Zuiderelle]

132. Let's see. Sex, virginity, yes, it's a sex thread.

Or maybe I am too confused about the definition of sex now! :rofl:

[Fran Kubelik]

128. I need some kind of a Ven diagram.

:rofl:

[Karenca]

118. No -----

I don't think it's you either.:-)

[idgiehkt]

121. I volunteer!

Pick me, pick me. :hi:

I'm tuff, I can handle. it.

[Yavin4]

141. I Am A Lesbian

I'm a male Lesbian.

[Fran Kubelik]

144. What exactly does that mean?

:rofl:

[smoogatz]

155. Well, my ex-girlfriend went to grad school with a short, hairy-backed

bald guy who had a sex change so he could be a lesbian. Maybe that's what he means...

[smtpgirl]

154. He is Lisa from the L Word, you know

[Fran Kubelik]

157. Lisa?

Or Moira/Max?

[Dangerously Amused]

169. It's me, isn't it?

Oops. Said that out loud, didn't I?








:yoiks:

[JackBeck]

172. Sorry. Nope.

[KitchenWitch]

8. It is called Gaydar!

:D

[smtpgirl]

10. LostinVA, I totally agree

if you had sex with a man or a woman, then you are not a virgin.

Sex is Sex is Sex.

[LostinVA]

12. Thank you -- a woman's sexual classification doesn't depend on a penis

I even checked some dictionaries, because I know some smartass will say something.

Per Merriam-Webster:

Sexual intercourse
One entry found for sexual intercourse.
Main Entry: sexual intercourse
Function: noun
1 : heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis : COITUS
2 : intercourse (as anal or oral intercourse) that does not involve penetration of the vagina by the penis

[smtpgirl]

18. LostinVA, I am a card carrying lesbian

received my complimentary toaster in 1987.

[LostinVA]

37. I got mine a little earlier, though not by much

[smtpgirl]

109. LostinVA, questioning in 1983

by 1987 was ok with myself. Took 4 years and alot of changes to get there.

Happy now, would have been a miserable hetero wife.

[youthere]

142. LOL...

You should have waited...I hear they are giving out panini grills now.:9

[AngryAmish]

41. Oral sex is not sex

We learned that during impeachment.

[Yavin4]

6. If You Think About It Mary Cheney Is A Virgin Then

And she's giving birth. Hmmmm.

[1gobluedem]

47. So does that make her the Virgin Mary?

I certainly hope not.

[Fran Kubelik]

72. ha!

:rofl:

[Dangerously Amused]

168. That's because the fundies can't counter the fact that Jesus was a liberal.

Which majorily FUCKS UP their hypocritical agenda.


So they're staging their OWN immaculate conception, complete with a "virgin Mary."


They're going to try to pass it off as the Second Coming of Christ.


Which makes perfect sense, since he will be a powerful, wealthy white Republican... WHO WORSHIPS HIMSELF.




It was all Karl Rove's idea.

[Generator]

9. Wow Suze Orman's gay!

I love her. I watch her every Saturday night. I never would have guessed. But yes, the definition of sex is having a penis in a vagina for virginity. See:marriage being "consumated" and all that silly rot. Obviously it's still SEX if you have oral sex, anal sex, and on and on. But the powers that be-the ones with penises decided this a long time ago. Same for a man. I would say he's a virgin if he's never had intercourse with a woman. Also-I think it has to do with pregnancy really, because that's what the old biological crap is for. Sex is all about THAT otherwise you could have said I wasn't a "virgin" when I was eleven years old. My girlfriend and I played around, but that doesn't mean I was no longer a virgin.

[idgiehkt]

21. "the definition of sex"

Clinton got impeached for less. Whose definition again? You say that like there is only one and it is carved in stone somewhere. Not true. I might just as easily call a man who has never been penetrated by a penis a virgin. Makes no difference to me, but just for the sake of consistency, if penetration by a penis defines sex. It is called heterosexism.

[Jimbo S]

11. Is the hymen broken?

That is what I was taught, anyways.

[mainegreen]

17. That doesn't work. You can loose that playing sports!

:D

[Madspirit]

20. That's Medical

...but few people mean medical when they ask about viginity. They mean...have you ever had sex.

Lee

[Maven]

22. Doesn't matter.

Men need not "break" anything to lose their virginity. You don't need a penis to accomplish that anyway.

I'm suprised she said this about herself.

[Oeditpus Rex]

36. Not even a sweat?

Drat. I've been doing it wrong. :(

[Maven]

44. I wouldn't go that far.

;)

Course, if you need a cast after you're done, maybe it's time to pick a safe-word.

[Zuiderelle]

30. You think only a penis can break a hymen? That's funny.

Besides the fact that some women have intact hymens even after having intercourse with a man.

[smtpgirl]

69. You can be with a woman and have your hymen

broken.

Having sex with a lesbian woman is not what you think it is

[Phillycat]

81. Conversely, you can have sex with a man and have an intact hymen

afterward.

I broke mine horseback riding. True story.

[Karenca]

115. I don't think

I was born with one.

[Phillycat]

123. Some women aren't!

Imagine how bad off THEY were back in the day when they hung the sheet out the window to show the bloodstain after the first night! There were probably women who were put to death as being whores because they were born without a hymen...

[youthere]

143. Me too! Of course I was having sex at the time..

:silly:












okay...not really.

[NMMNG]

167. You can have sex by yourself and have your hymen broken

:evilgrin:

[idgiehkt]

13. Wahoo!!

I love Suze! I had no idea, that is so cool. I really don't like the terminology "admits", though, it's a pet peeve of mine. How about 'says'?

She is so awesome. That is assinine saying she is a virgin, good grief. Are all straight men who've never had anal sex virgins? It is heterosexist beyond belief. Thanks for posting that. Your link isn't working though; I'd love to read the article.

[Hosnon]

15. "Virgin" is a word that evolved in a heterosexually dominated culture.

It is unsuitable for today's world, without revision.

Defining sex in terms of penetration presents no problem for male/male sex. How is it defined for female/female sex?

[Karenca]

19. I AGREE---The meaning should be revised...NT

[idgiehkt]

24. I think the original meaning or origin of that word meant independent and

unmarried, anyway, not depending on a man for support and I'm not sure it had much to do with sexual history. It may be the concept I'm thinking of and not the word, because virgin more than likely shares the same root as virtue which shows us just how sex-hating our culture really was in origin.

[Karenca]

16. I had to look this up__-

Here's what wikipedia says: "Virginity is a term used to describe the state of never having engaged in sexual intercourse."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin


Edited to add: Maybe the term should be revised/updated.

[Hosnon]

23. How is sexual intercourse defined in female/female relationships?

Do you know? Has some convention developed?

[Karenca]

25. All I did was copy and paste the

wikipedia entry,

You don't have to get hostile. If you read my posts, you'll see I said the meaning should be updated.

[Hosnon]

28. Woah...I did not mean to come across as hostile at all.

Just tossing out some questions. You had relevant information so I assumed you may have more.

:)

[Karenca]

38. No, all I did was copy and paste.

I'm truly sorry for jumping at you like I did:)

[Hosnon]

42. All is good. Interesting discussion, too.

To me, masturbation by another is not sex; penetration by a penis into a male anus or a female vagina is sex.

Those would be my outer boundaries. As to the middle (and a possible working definition), I'm lost...:)

[idgiehkt]

45. I think if you have an orgasm it is sex

If you are masturbating it is sex with yourself. I like to keep things simple. The only reason I can see for defining it another way is if you think handjobs are okay because they "don't count".

:shrug:

[Zuiderelle]

48. Must be a lot of immaculate conceptions then.

Tell all those women who got pregnant after have intercourse with a man that they are virgins because they didn't orgasm.

Don't mean to pick on you, but that's a hilarious definition. :thumbsup:

[idgiehkt]

50. what on earth are you talking about?

I'm defining sex here, not virginity.

[Zuiderelle]

53. Ok then, tell those mothers who've never orgasmed that they've never had sex.

Still works. I know a lot of women who don't orgasm every time they have sex. ESPECIALLY when they have sex with men.

[idgiehkt]

57. It's not an exclusive requirement and I did not say it was

If you read through those posts you will understand where I am coming from here. Sigh, this is getting tiresome. It doesn't have to include orgasm to BE sex, but in my definition, responding to the other poster's contention that manual stimulation of another is not sex, if an orgasm happens, by my definition that is sex. Capiche?

[Zuiderelle]

65. Oh, sorry, I was just responding to your post that did define it exactly that way.

But I certainly wouldn't want to be tiresome. :D

fwiw, There've been times in my life (thankfully very few) where no amount of manual stimulation will bring me to orgasm. Doesn't mean that I didn't have sex.

[idgiehkt]

nope

you read exclusivity where there was none. And why you seem to be stating here that only manual stimulation is sex when the poster with that sticking point (sorry) was in fact asserting that manual stimulation is not sex is beyond me. :shrug:

[Zuiderelle]

74. Huh? Where did I state that "only manual stimulation is sex?"

I was only responding to you stating that you defined manual stimulation as sex if there was an orgasm. I don't even care what the other poster said. I was responding to you, arguing that manual stimulation IS sex if it's with another person, whether or not there is an orgasm.

[idgiehkt]

79. It sounds like we agree

I didn't include manual stimulation in my definition which you referenced. I said if there is orgasm, it is sex. I did not, however, make that an exclusive definition, just one definition of sex. So to me, manual stimulation is sex, and I never said it wasn't.

[Zuiderelle]

87. Oh ok. Sometimes, I just read the subject lines and that one stuck out.

[Hosnon]

So orgasm is a sufficient, but not necessary requirement of sex?

I can dig that.

[idgiehkt]

90. Not in my book

But that's just me. ;)

[Hosnon]

95. Oh, I seem to have misunderstood your position...NT.

[idgiehkt]

97. no, in that case I'm joking

my position on this is consistent, but on a personal level, I demand satisfaction. :evilgrin:

[Hosnon]

101. Ok, now YOU'RE playing...

Hehe...:)

[AngryAmish]

113. Are you challanging them to a duel?

[Hosnon]

59. Doesn't one, by definition, define the other? NT.

[idgiehkt]

nope

which is the point of the whole debate in this thread. If your question had a postive answer we wouldn't be discussing any of this, obviously.

[Hosnon]

68. I disagree. If we knew what "sex" was, we would know that a virgin is a person

is one who has not had "sex".

I can agree with the definition of virgin being: "A person who has not had sex".

The difficulty is defining "sex".

I think my position has already morphed in the short life span of this thread. I originally thought that the difficulty was in defining "virgin". However, I am pretty satisfied with the above definition. In that sense, it is tied to the definition of "sex" (which was the root of my previous belief that "virgin" was a heterocentric word).

"Sex" needs to be defined so as to include male/female, male/male and female/female "activity".

I hope that makes sense...

[idgiehkt]

88. it may be irrelevant and anachronistic

it mattered only in a legal and religious sense purely to establish paternity. We now have DNA testing, so it's probably time to stop defining it.

[Hosnon]

54. Good point. And thus we descend down the definitional rabbit hole...

Perhaps activity that is of the sort that would induce orgasm is sex? Not only would this cover activity when only one partner orgasms but also incomplete "sex" (such as oral sex that is interrupted or not finished for whatever reason).

[Zuiderelle]

56. There you go! Sounds good to me.

:D

[Phillycat]

86. Then I've had some really bad non-sex in my life. Heh.

Nothing those guys were doing was anything close to what would bring me to orgasm. I guess they don't count as sex partners, then, even though there was penis insertion. :D

[Hosnon]

96. Haha...I hope I qualified with "tend" or some similar word...

:)

[Fran Kubelik]

61. Good point.

I was about to post that I did not orgasm the first few times I had sex with a man...and wondered if that meant I was a virgin longer than I thought I was.
:D

[idgiehkt]

62. Nope

that is not what I said. I was not defining virginity, I was arguing a point that a handjob, whether given by yourself to yourself or by another to another is, in fact, sex. Good grief.

[Fran Kubelik]

70. I am sorry that I seem to have made you angry.

I was playing with semantics, trying to be silly. I will try to be entirely serious from now on. :(

[idgiehkt]

75. lol

you haven't seen angry, and it's unlikely you will. That is just exasperated. Please, be as silly as you like. This is the lounge, and it is starting to feel a tad like GD.

[Hosnon]

77. I agree.

The Lounge is my refuge. I guess I'm not wedded to any particular definition of sex and am interested in fleshing it out.

[idgiehkt]

83. you did that on purpose

"fleshing it out"

:rofl:

[Hosnon]

93. I think I'm going to go

flesh things out on my own right now...

:evilgrin:

[Fran Kubelik]

80. Ok, good.

:D Thanks.

[Hosnon]

49. I can see that.

The only issue I have is that I do think that male/female penetration is deserving of its own word (along with the male/male and female/female equivalents, if they exist).

I guess the term "intercourse" works...but what is "intercourse" between two women?

[idgiehkt]

52. I just posted this elsewhere in the thread

sexual intercourse
n.
1. Coitus between humans.
2. Sexual union between humans involving genital contact other than vaginal penetration by the penis.

[Hosnon]

55. That definition seems a bit too circular.

What the heck is "sexual union"? Seems to imply a previously agreed upon definition of sex.

[idgiehkt]

60. lol

I think you are just jerking off here.

[Hosnon]

73. Hmm...is it obvious that I am typing too slow? NT.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

146. You want to know what "intercourse" is between two women?

It's EXACTLY what I did about half an hour ago.

:evilgrin:

[Karenca]

64. "To me,

masturbation by another is not sex; penetration by a penis into a male anus or a female vagina is sex."

To me too, but I just wanted to see what a technical definition might be.
I shouldn't have looked at Wiki.

[idgiehkt]

66. Really?

Wow, I'm tripping on this. People really don't believe that manual stimulation is sex but they do believe oral sex, or sex using a plastic dildo, which is less organic than a finger, is actually sex? Again, wow.

[Karenca]

91. They're all sexual acts.

(I think I'm confusing myself today, please just ignore me):blush:

[idgiehkt]

103. we are all confused

As a dear and wise friend of mine used to say "Confusion is a higher state of being than certainty."

[Hosnon]

111. I agree with your friend.

Certainty usually comes from the naive belief in a world that exists only at the extremes, e.g., "with us or against us". Confusion is a recognition that things are extremely complicated.

Slap me for repeatedly bringing down your attempts to keep this conversation light-hearted.:)

[idgiehkt]

32. here is one definition

sexual intercourse n.
1. Coitus between humans.
2. Sexual union between humans involving genital contact other than vaginal penetration by the penis.

looks like sexual intercourse refers to just about anything you want it to.

[Hosnon]

34. Interesting. I still have an intuitive problem with labeling masturbation by

another as sex.

I can possibly see oral sex as such, however.

[idgiehkt]

39. "intuitive"?

I'm having trouble with that one. Why do you consider your problem with this intuitive instead of prejudicial?

[Hosnon]

46. I use "intuitive" as "reason in a hurry".

That is, I believe that, given enough time, I could probably work out an axiomatic system where masturbation by another would not be "sex".

However, my tendency to believe that can certainly be prejudicial.

[idgiehkt]

26. wikipedia cracks me up sometimes

"Until today, Christian states have or have had laws protecting virginity."

Wow, today? I guess I missed it. That's what I get for sleeping late.

:rofl:

[Hosnon]

31. Go read Conservopedia (sp) if you really want to snarf.

Wikipedia is not journal-level material but it is much better than that wackjob version.

[idgiehkt]

33. never heard of that one

the first three syllables kind of kill my curiosity.

[Hosnon]

35. Right. A thread popped up yesterday, I believe.

It's a hoot.

[Karenca]

40. Wikipedia

can be pretty fucked up.

[idgiehkt]

43. I like most of their articles and reference them alot

but that sentence just kind of jumped out at me. Their articles on music and musicians are usually great, don't know who writes them but they are ususally pretty thorough.

[Karenca]

58. Mostly good,

but sometimes it can get strange.

(remember what the freepers did to Andy's page?)

[Hosnon]

63. Wikipedia is extremely valuable as a "jumping-off" point.

There was a thread a while back about Soviet Kulaks. I had NO IDEA what that was and used Wikipedia to quickly (although, perhaps superficially) catch up.

[Yavin4]

51. By Some People's Definition of Sex, A Virgin Female Can Attened a 100,000 All Female Orgy

Have lesbian sex with all of those women and walk out a complete virgin.

[Zuiderelle]

71. Now THAT sounds like fun.

:rofl:

[Yavin4]

76. I Know

I just wanna watch it.

[JackBeck]

82. What makes you think you'd be allowed to watch?

[idgiehkt]

85. some of us bi girls don't mind that kind of thing.

Sorry to be blunt, but just so ya know.

[JackBeck]

89. That's fair.

But I read the post more from a lesbian point of view.

[Yavin4]

138. Who Says That They Would Be Able To See Me?

I plan on being carefully hidden. Besides there are 100,000 women there. They'll never notice me. hehe.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

147. It's amazing how you are so scared of being hit on by another man, yet you want to watch women fuck.

:puke:

[Yavin4]

148. I Am What I Am

That's me.

[Fran Kubelik]

162. Oh really?

Typical. :(

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

163. Yeah.

:eyes:

[ThomCat]

94. That's a very straight conceit.

It always strikes me as sexist that straight men so openly talk about watching women have sex, and so much so that they've even created a whole aspect of the porn industry to film straight women pretending to be lesbians.
:shrug:

[LostinVA]

98. Yup, exactly

THat's why, 99% of the time, when people talk about "lesbian porn," that's the kind of porn they mean. Woman-on-woman porn for straight guys, not lesbians. Straight porn is often much more "women friendly."

[Zuiderelle]

105. Straight women pretending to be gay in porn is definitely not made for women.

I'd rather watch two men having sex than watch what passes as lesbian porn. Definitely not made for women.

I can't tell you how many times I've been approached by some sleazy guy making some innuendo about watching me have sex with my girlfriend. It's incredibly insulting.

[idgiehkt]

114. I wouldn't mind if if not for the fingernails

And they always have the scary Lee press-ons going on in those movies. Lea Delaria used to do a hilarious bit about that in her stand-up. I miss her.

I guess I have to say all the lace and garters and 4 inch heels are beyond anything I've ever experienced as well. But I'm not ruling it out, lol. I mean, there's been some silk and some lace and stuff, but not to the extreme I've seen it in some of those movies. And many sex-industry workers and bisexual or lesbian, I think it's a lot higher percentage than the general population.

[Fran Kubelik]

124. What happened to Lea Delaria???

I thought she was still around. :shrug:

[idgiehkt]

134. Last I heard she was doing Broadway musicals

Tearing it up. I really don't think she does much standup anymore but I could be wrong. That lady can sing like nobody's business
Here is "I can cook, too" this is from 1998
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6w_DFckBeI

[Fran Kubelik]

136. Oh!

I read your post and thought she had died or something. :scared:

[idgiehkt]

140. well, if I was worth my salt I would google it

however, I'm not in the mood. She was in recovery from alcoholism in the 90s and then she wrote this really, really weird book where she slammed everybody and eveyrthing and I think went back on drugs, and then got all the parts in the Broadway shows, and said at one point that she didn't feel like doing stand-up anymore because it is kind of (paraphrasing here, but not too much) beneath her now that she's been on Broadway. It sucks, because she's the most talented lesbian stand-up I've ever seen, plus she would always sing an old blues or jazz number during her sets and bring down the house. I mean, she used a lot stronger language than that when she was talking about leaving stand-up behind. But who knows, maybe she changed her tune.

[Hosnon]

106. For what it's worth...

I like male/female porn best. I need to be able to put myself into the on-screen role.

I can't believe I just said that...:blush:

[idgiehkt]

110. eek

well I'm in an un-p.c. spot here because I fantasize about all kinds of things and like watching gay male porn.

[Yavin4]

139. At the risk of getting this thread locked,Lesbian Porn Is My Favorite

The women are better looking in lesbian porn, and they appear to enjoy the sex a lot better than the straight porn. Check out Viv Thomas' movies. They are an excellent example of what I'm talking about.

[unsavedtrash]

137. I want to go!

:bounce: :bounce:

[liontamer]

145. you're right

although I had an ex girlfriend call me a virgin even after I had sex with her. :eyes: It's reminiscent of porn terms like "anal virgin". The concept of virginity is such a loose construct as to be completely meaningless. We should just give up classifying people that way.

[pitohui]

149. she calls herself a virgin -- that isn't sexist, it's a technical term

the article is not sexist if that is what she herself chooses to call herself, i'm somewhat of the opinion that people are allowed to call themselves what they like

most people understand a woman virgin to be someone who has never had intercourse with a man, that's why you can have "everything but" including oral sex and still be a virgin, hell, there are some girls who even say they're still a virgin if they've had anal sex -- it's a technical term, no use reading too much into it -- if the hymen is not broken, i don't see why she isn't entitled to call herself a virgin if she chooses

it may sound "uncool" to you but it may be a point of pride to her, proof she was always a strong woman who knew who she was and didn't have a moment's doubt about her sexuality

[Radical Activist]

150. Interesting.

I would not personally call her a virgin since she has had sex with a woman.

Yet, if I knew a heterosexual couple who had only engaged in the same acts that generally qualify as lesbian sex, I would call them both virgins. So...hmm...whatever people want to call themselves I guess.

[idgiehkt]

166. there you go muddying the waters

something else to ponder.

[Radical Activist]

170. haha

Well, I try. How is this thread not locked? Amazing.

[xmas74]

151. edit:

Remembered a definition from a sex expert of virginity but don't want to get into the fight.

Please don't hate me!

[Kutjara]

152. That logic reminds me of a high school friend...

...who would only have anal sex with guys because she want to be a virgin when she got married.

"WTF" doesn't really begin to cover that thinking.

[smoogatz]

156. Was that a Catholic school, by any chance?

Mid '70s? If so, I may have dated this girl...

[Kutjara]

158. The school wasn't, but she was...

...and it was the mid-to-late 70s.

I still can't stretch my mind completely around the logic she was using. Talk about the "letter of the law."

[smoogatz]

159. Those were the good ol' days, by cracky.

And if you were lucky enough to date one of those girls, you kept your big yap shut about the logic thing...

[Kutjara]

160. Nothing made much sense to me back then...

...so I learned very quickly to go with the flow and not ask too many questions. :)

[ContraBass Black]

161. I've heard that one from lots of girls.

All of them in the last ten years.

[idgiehkt]

165. I have a strange degree of envy thinking about that

wow. Times have changed. At least girls today get to have fun and still be considered virgins, which, by the archaic definition, they actually still are.

[smtpgirl]

153. Don't know what circles Suze travels in or to

but lesbians can actually fuck too.

I have been with a man in my past straight life, but that was so long ago. I have the "gay" and will never turn back,

In the heat of the moment, it is so much better than sex with a man, maybe that's why we are gay.

Can't explain it, it is what it is. And it's so much funner!!!!

Cards on the table, if you are with the right person, anything goes gay or straight.

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:


:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[NMMNG]

164. You are right

The definition of sex as "penis in vagina" is outdated and discriminatory. Otherwise G/L people could qualify as virgins their entire lives if they'd had one partner or 1000. How silly would that be? :crazy:

[Rising Phoenix]

171. you are so right

I define losing your virginity as willfully giving yourself to your partner.